prototype "gommoso"

[redchubeka]

Good morning to all, I am a new member, interested in rapid prototyping.
I would like to make a prototype of a new product, which is quite realistic, the appearance should be (as consistency and flexibility) very similar to irrigation tubes, perhaps semi transparent.
Can you do that? How much could it cost? to understand us we could take as size / appearance a long pipe 8cm and diameter 5cm (often 3mm)

I hope I've been quite clear, otherwise I can give you more information. Thank you.

 

[IPdesign]

you can do, but not semitransparent.
there are 2 techniques, polyjet and sintering.

 

[Borntired]

you can also do semi-transparent. objet has recently released a new type of rubber-like material that is precisely semi-transparent. also from the tests we have done internally has better mechanical properties than tangoblack.
However, forget that it has an elastic return similar to irrigation pipes.

 

[maxopus]

I've seen it do with the z-corporation printers in chalk powders.
I don't know what the resistance characteristics of the prototypes are, but for the rest it impresses as a chalk powder prototyping can be so "cool".

 

[redchubeka]

you can also do semi-transparent. objet has recently released a new type of rubber-like material that is precisely semi-transparent. also from the tests we have done internally has better mechanical properties than tangoblack.
However, forget that it has an elastic return similar to irrigation pipes.

great, would you tell me "indicative" how much could it cost? like 100 to 200 to understand how many prototypes I can do.

p.s what do you mean "should I have an elastic return similar to irrigation pipes" that if the squeezing breaks or has a minimum of elasticity?

Thank you.

 

[fast3d]

for borntired or better bornstanco!

You mean better than tangoblackplus or tangoblack? because tangoblack is or was (I don't know if it still exists) much lower than tangoblackplus. However the best symilgomma compounds are those made with digital connex. tangoplus is semi-transparent opaline and has long existed (4 years or so), but the transparent one did not know it existed. What's his name officially?

I allow an arrow to the paolo friend: now that we are no longer competitors at the level of mother houses, why this immediate hostility or better skepticism does the objet products? a friend's advice is always inquiring before giving answers without being certain, but you know that better than me.

hello to everyone and good weekend.

stefano saleri
fast 3d srlwww.fast3dsrl.it

 

[IPdesign]

I allow an arrow to the paolo friend: now that we are no longer competitors at the level of mother houses, why this immediate hostility or better skepticism does the objet products? a friend's advice is always inquiring before giving answers without being certain, but you know that better than me.

hello to everyone and good weekend.

stefano saleri
fast 3d srlwww.fast3dsrl.it

I don't see in the tread answers that may have given you cause of hostility. If you read well I have listed polyget as one of the two possible techniques, therefore it is urgent an explanation otherwise those who read do not understand the reason for your statement.

Let me take off a pebble
always in your critical posts the alleged position of this forum stating that we are pro fdm and we discrim polyget .
I can list you tread where the opposite is done!
Let me point out that now that object and stratasys have melted, I should do nothing but speak well of both technologies?
If a user asks me an opinion on both the forum and in private, I always try to say what my experience with one or the other technology (always documentable and demonstrable), and as I say to all I can provide almost all the prototypal techniques supporting me to collaborators with whom there is mutual collaboration and I trust.
mutual trust that in these years of activity has been consolidated thanks to a relationship of mutual clarity.
therefore I have no interest in pushing polyget rather than sintering if not the intention to please the final customer .

I do not have the commercial vocation and prefer to lose a client rather than recommend it badly, and probably this way of working has cost me turnover in recent years, but I am still happy every time a customer returns rewarding me for my correctness.

and incidentally I am so correct that some of my direct competitors (services with dimensions) have been helped by me to please one of their clients at times of difficulty and only this could say long.

 

[2¶ - progetti]

quoting, subscribing and voting!
"and incidentally I am so correct that some of my direct competitors (services with dimensions) have been helped by me to please one of their clients in times of difficulty and only this could say long ."...now paolo is no longer a competitor, he is a colleague!....and just in the pd zone I get confused with a memorable dinner! !

ps : paolo the model for the airport of bari was delivered, my client was pleased

disability
www.duepigreco3d.it

 

[IPdesign]

quoting, subscribing and voting!
"and incidentally I am so correct that some of my direct competitors (services with dimensions) have been helped by me to please one of their clients in times of difficulty and only this could say long ."...now paolo is no longer a competitor, he is a colleague!....and just in the pd zone I get confused with a memorable dinner! !

ps : paolo the model for the airport of bari was delivered, my client was pleased

disability
www.duepigreco3d.it

I am pleased to read that you managed to deliver for time and that the customer was satisfied! .
but better to close here the ot:wink:

Palo

 

[fast3d]

That's what we're talking about.

 

[Borntired]

great, would you tell me "indicative" how much could it cost? like 100 to 200 to understand how many prototypes I can do.

It's difficult if it's not impossible to make an eye quotation but I'd say a piece between 50 and 150 euros. even here you should understand your needs, over a certain number could become more convenient to make a silicone mold; you can also use materials with significantly higher mechanical characteristics.

p.s what do you mean "should I have an elastic return similar to irrigation pipes" that if the squeezing breaks or has a minimum of elasticity?

I'm not talking about fragility. I am saying that the rubber made with polyget technology being created layer by layer will not be "elastic" as a particular analog injection molded. if subjected to deformation will be slower to resume the form.

 

[ferro]

I allow an arrow to the paolo friend: now that we are no longer competitors at the level of mother houses, why this immediate hostility or better skepticism does the objet products? a friend's advice is always inquiring before giving answers without being certain, but you know that better than me.

for paolo.
I believe that fast3d refers only to the semi-transparent claim.

for fast3d.
I will soon sell him an objet so you will have to believe...:wink:

 

[ferro]

and as soon as it's in the pd zone I get drunk with a memorable dinner! !

Tell me where and when I "for pure case" will pass by them:wink:

 

[2¶ - progetti]

....magari lucio, you would be my guest willingly!...among other things we would have more than some argument to discuss...if I had a "handy" object, with the work where paolo helped me, I made a figurone....the client asked me a 1:250 scale model of the cogeneration plant that was inside the model!! !

disability
www.duepigreco3d.it

 

[ferro]

....magari lucio, you would be my guest willingly!...among other things we would have more than some argument to discuss...if I had a "handy" object, with the work where paolo helped me, I made a figurone....the client asked me a 1:250 scale model of the cogeneration plant that was inside the model!! !

resist temptation for a while...:wink:

 

[logo74]

I don't see in the tread answers that may have given you cause of hostility. If you read well I have listed polyget as one of the two possible techniques, therefore it is urgent an explanation otherwise those who read do not understand the reason for your statement.

Let me take off a pebble
always in your critical posts the alleged position of this forum stating that we are pro fdm and we discrim polyget .
I can list you tread where the opposite is done!
Let me point out that now that object and stratasys have melted, I should do nothing but speak well of both technologies?
If a user asks me an opinion on both the forum and in private, I always try to say what my experience with one or the other technology (always documentable and demonstrable), and as I say to all I can provide almost all the prototypal techniques supporting me to collaborators with whom there is mutual collaboration and I trust.
mutual trust that in these years of activity has been consolidated thanks to a relationship of mutual clarity.
therefore I have no interest in pushing polyget rather than sintering if not the intention to please the final customer .

I do not have the commercial vocation and prefer to lose a client rather than recommend it badly, and probably this way of working has cost me turnover in recent years, but I am still happy every time a customer returns rewarding me for my correctness.

and incidentally I am so correct that some of my direct competitors (services with dimensions) have been helped by me to please one of their clients at times of difficulty and only this could say long.

Hi.

I'm sorry if I interfere but I take advantage of this little diatribe to ask for advice.
I should open a service of rp in that of torino hope in the new year , I was almost convinced (after various fairs and advice from other services already 'in existence) to take an elite size 1200 therefore fdm but after reading here and seen the site of the known object that I had lost the last "out" object 24 and 30pro and connex .. multimaterial printers.
Whereas, if I don't err, the only known multimaterials are the fortus and so the cost is out of my budget, these last objects seem to me a better choice or wrong?
Let's lose speed, work room, and all that, currently the object technology is no better than the dimensional stratasys? size fdms only work the right abs?
I conclude by saying that I speak in a theoretical line not having yet "type clients" sure and therefore not knowing which and how many prototypes of a technology rather than another I would go to produce.

Thank you.

Lorenzo

 

[fast3d]

Hi.

I'm very curious about what ipdesign will answer.

I limit myself to say that by now the objet and non-object no longer esite but it is called stratasys, and that the connex is not a multimaterial in the sense that it can print details in different single materials, but that it can print a single particular in multiple materials for example a rubber and rigid, or in more different materials without having to paste them.

I wish you luck, you're very rushing to open a service right now.

Hi.
stefano salts
fast 3d srlwww.fast3dsrl.it

 

[IPdesign]

Hi.
I'm very curious about what ipdesign will answer.

I would not like to leave your request unsuccessful :biggrin:

Hi.
I'm sorry if I interfere but I take advantage of this little diatribe to ask for advice.
I should open a rp service in that bully I hope in the new year...

quoto stefano .. it takes courage at this moment

Let's lose speed, work room, and everything else.

Why should you let these parameters go? If you want to do service time is money and size could mean you can do a job rather than have to pass your hand.

not having safe "type clients" yet and therefore not knowing which and how many prototypes of a technology rather than another I would go to produce.

This in my opinion is definitely a bad start, if you do not have a defined market to address, risk buying a tool that you will use little, how do you know if your future user will want a product rather than another one? also you did an investigation to see how much competition you will have?
not only in your area, and with what technologies!!
a bit like buying a milling machine without knowing what I'll have to rub, or buying a van without knowing what I'll have to carry.

Why don't you consider prototyping your market at first? You could sell many technologies without having to make a first immediate investment and then decide which technique has the most market and choose in operation ...

Needless to think about the best technology, you don't put yourself as a buyer, but as a supplier where you have to think about which technology has the most market and not of secondary importance, what can give you more profit margin?

One last thing I don't know that many like you never value

How reliable are the machines?
How much does maintenance cost?
How fast is the technical intervention?
every fault causes you a stop that results in failure production and faults always happen to machine in operation, so with work to do and deliver in very fast times
the company that you rely on for assistance can swab you for your urgencies by printing her instead of you at predefined costs so that you can still deliver to the customer for time?

 

[logo74]

first of all thanks to both the answers:finger:

Let's say that I've written in great lines what I'd like to know more without being able to specify all my "history" , in any case briefly I understand that he's a little crazy more than brave to want to open a services at this time and that however I'm followed by the province of torino in the context of a project that follows and helps the "startups" to start, then market studies, competitors, and then business plan etc.
the only problem of these "services" offered by the province/region and that you have to subject to certain strict rules and therefore I wanted to try to detach me.. in any case my idea was for the beginning of supporting me to external services if I could not satisfy both the workload and the type of work; for this I have already found some services willing to collaborate with me.
as customers, if all vain, I should have a medical prosthetics workshop, plantar and what else and a mechanical company linked to the automotive world

p.s.

The idea of reselling prototypes was actually taken into account.
p.p.s
as a competitor you have also been included:biggrin:



hello & thanks

 

[PCUBE]

great, would you tell me "indicative" how much could it cost? like 100 to 200 to understand how many prototypes I can do.

p.s what do you mean "should I have an elastic return similar to irrigation pipes" that if the squeezing breaks or has a minimum of elasticity?

Thank you.

I suggest you make the prototype with the new abflex material of envisiontec. This material has excellent resistance and assures you the elastic return even after great deformations.
the size of the model you have to realize are not very large so its cost should not get much out of a hundred euros.
I attach two photos of models made with abflex.