angle group

[Patrick Gorza]

Good morning forum!
mechanical demand for experts in the field.
I am building an angle group "untired" which includes 1 pto tree (1 3/8") connected a 19 mm tree. for pulley.
I will not be stretching out on how to interconnect them (conical pair), because my question concerns the bearings of support of the trees.the lubrication of the internal conical couple, can predict both oil and fat as an alternative?according to the answer, if it absolutely needs oil, I have to opt for radial ball bearings with turned seat, oil, seeger for tree locking and what else. if instead, to lubricate I can use fat, I would choose for constructive convenience, of the ucf 207 bearings with flange support to 4 holes. this last option is the simplest that does not involve (theoretically) use of the lathe; bearings are already locked in place and provided with grain for tree locking. There is also no need for oil.
What do you recommend?
thanks and good day.
Patrick.

 

[Marco F inox]

hi, small conical pairs, such as those of decelers and/or portable grinders, have fat as lubricant, specifically indicated for conical couples.
in this case free volume is very reduced, so fat does not run away, but if free space is huge, speech changes.

 

[Patrick Gorza]

hi, small conical pairs, such as those of decelers and/or portable grinders, have fat as lubricant, specifically indicated for conical couples.
in this case free volume is very reduced, so fat does not run away, but if free space is huge, speech changes.

Hello, Marco.
definitely the gearbox is more voluminous, but I can compensate with more fat, I think...

 

[Patrick Gorza]

Hello, Marco.
definitely the gearbox is more voluminous, but I can compensate with more fat, I think...

But, for example, in cardan multipliers (for oil pumps) there goes oil, so I find the doubt...

 

[Marco F inox]

Perhaps you have to take into account speeds and position. .
the cardan goes to 540 or 1000 rpm max., the pump will make 2,500-3,000, and the multiplier is still.
in the above-mentioned tools, you go beyond the 10,000 rpm, moreover the conical couple is always in motion, even with tipping.

 

[Patrick Gorza]

Perhaps you have to take into account speeds and position. .
the cardan goes to 540 or 1000 rpm max., the pump will make 2,500-3,000, and the multiplier is still.
in the above-mentioned tools, you go beyond the 10,000 rpm, moreover the conical couple is always in motion, even with tipping.

...and so? do you think you can use fat instead of oil?
practically I have to lubricate only the conical couple.. .

 

[Marco F inox]

I built a snow turbine for the decrusher with a double conical couple, to decrease the turns of 9 times and I used the fat.

 

[Patrick Gorza]

I built a snow turbine for the decrusher with a double conical couple, to decrease the turns of 9 times and I used the fat.

Good. Thank you pietro.

 

[TETRASTORE]

the lubrication of the internal conical couple, can predict both oil and fat as an alternative?

the answer is yes, provided the fat is lithium-based, with nlgi2 consistency with ep additives.
I doubt however that you can avoid lubricating between the seat of the support and the outer ring of the bearing as only the bearing is stagnated, unless you unplug the bearing, sprinkle sealing the seat on the support and return the bearing.
what I see critical in your idea is:
1) the lack of precise alignments between the orthogonal axes and between the shaft supports exit; this can determine an incorrect contact on the teeth of the gears with the possibility of a high noise and a lower duration;
2) block the tree with the grain present on the support hub; I think it is not enough to counter the axial thrust determined by the conical gears, with the risk of axial sliding of the shaft and breaking of the teeth of the conical couple.

 

[Patrick Gorza]

the answer is yes, provided the fat is lithium-based, with nlgi2 consistency with ep additives.
I doubt however that you can avoid lubricating between the seat of the support and the outer ring of the bearing as only the bearing is stagnated, unless you unplug the bearing, sprinkle sealing the seat on the support and return the bearing.
what I see critical in your idea is:
1) the lack of precise alignments between the orthogonal axes and between the shaft supports exit; this can determine an incorrect contact on the teeth of the gears with the possibility of a high noise and a lower duration;
2) block the tree with the grain present on the support hub; I think it is not enough to counter the axial thrust determined by the conical gears, with the risk of axial sliding of the shaft and breaking of the teeth of the conical couple.

Thanks for the tetrator board.
for locking hub/shaft I could weld and then return.
I could create an internal oil seat housing (but then we are daccapo).
for alignment surely a radial bearing with dedicated seat would certainly be more in line. I am afraid, however, that when ordering the material I would not want the pto to mix 35 mm of diam. poor, while the bearing is 35 mm accurate and should therefore bring back material for a correct fit. how to fix otherwise bearing tree?

 

[TETRASTORE]

I attach a separate design of an angle reference in which you can see how the various components are mounted. It's from this catalogue, where on page 12-13 you can see the size of a group similar to your (frs11 but with tree 20 mm).
the representation of the trees is simplified as it does not show you all the differentiations of the diameters of the trees (sede bearing, seat seal ring, etc.).
remember that you also need to consider how to record the conical couple; in case I have reported it acts with thicknesses on the side lids.

 

[Patrick Gorza]

I attach a separate design of an angle reference in which you can see how the various components are mounted. It's from this catalogue, where on page 12-13 you can see the size of a group similar to your (frs11 but with tree 20 mm).
the representation of the trees is simplified as it does not show you all the differentiations of the diameters of the trees (sede bearing, seat seal ring, etc.).
remember that you also need to consider how to record the conical couple; in case I have reported it acts with thicknesses on the side lids.

Thank you tetrator.
I'll try to try to try my business.
Unfortunately, the costs of angular renewals are prohibitive, otherwise I would not.. .