choice of components (customers)

[Calender]

Good morning.

Recently customers claim to choose our components suppliers (customs, linear guides, pneumatic cylinders etc.). This involves additional design constraints (not being all standardized components). we guarantee the duration of the application and we guarantee assistance on the reciprocal but often do not want to know. Does this happen to you? is it common practice to grant the choice of components to customers?

 

[TETRASTORE]

inevitably it is a process that will affect more and more in customer relationships supplier, especially in structured and possibly certified companies.
this is due to a first need to reduce the number of suppliers for the same product and as second and most important, to assess whether or not the suppliers are in line with the needs of the organization and not necessarily select each time a different supplier for the purchase of a specific product.
Today, many companies carry out the evaluation, selection and monitoring of suppliers using standard procedures such as iso 9001.
given the type of Italian companies (small and many not yet structured) it is obvious that it is a trend that will take time to spread but it is already established in many large companies of the productive sector and in almost all those services (e.g. supplying water, gas, energy, etc.) which impose their suppliers except those who supply for a specific or customized need for which there is no competition.

 

[Calender]

I imagined,but the question I ask myself is another...if I use the supplier to which I am well and my client imposes on me the supplier b that instead gives me problems, why should I be passively subjected every time without right cause? we do customised machines, we work as a contractor but we managed to reduce the number of groups thanks to a variety reduction program. ..we thought of solving the problem of commercials giving guarantees to customers on the reliability of components and availability timing in our machines. despite that they continue to impose their favorite suppliers on us. i.e., we can prove that the thk guide for the application will last you 30 years and you in 10 years expect to make a revamping on the machine or that product will go in obsolescence, but you client will continue to impose on me to use the bosch guide for the machine I am building you. If the bosch guide, however, maybe I get late with consequences on delivery times, as I see it, they are your own...not mine... but in the end I think the customer is always right...

 

[Vittorio]

It's a widespread problem, in my case definitely less complicated than yours.
I impose hydraulic cylinders of a certain brand, which compared to those proposed by us, have advantageous price features.
but the answer was: just take this mark.
the reason I found out later: it was a question of spare parts.
they say: in case of failure of the oledinamico cylinder, we cannibalitimo pieces of other 100% compatible cylinders waiting for the new one, without stopping the production and without having a thousand spare items.

 

[DrBarde]

They usually do it for spare parts. by us do it (limitedly by luck) only at the level of motors and some particular components. on bearings or guides never had big diktat.
different speech regarding the electrical components, having to integrate to their existing systems there is a harlequin of choices that impose, at the level of panels, plc and other.

 

[TETRASTORE]

If the bosch guide, however, maybe I get late with consequences on delivery times, as I see it, they are your own...not mine...

the problem is that the disservice of the supplier imposed by your customer creates the image, despite it, of unreliable supplier. here it is your business to try to convince the customer, trying to understand also the reasons why he chose and imposed a certain supplier, evaluating whether and how to propose alternatives by arguing the choices.

 

[Stan9411]

even in my opinion, as tetrator says, more management speech than purely technical ..
a claim so is due to commercial issues, quality management, maintenance etc... because if you ensure that your solution has the same performance, technically to them should not rub.

is a commercial speech .. if the thing to you creates troubles, your colleagues must sell the goodness of your supplier on tables that are not the performance, duration or other technical aspect

 

[paulpaul]

when the commercial cannot argue the technical choices at the base of a product (and unfortunately, especially in Italy, are many) happen these things.
I believe then there is also an Italian problem (due to our character): that is a general attitude to servicing, as if we always have to take advantage of a perennial sense of inferiority (but we are recently on the market - but we are small - but then they buy it from others - etc.) and therefore we adapt to every possible customization, losing in organization and remaining perennial craftsmen (who however want numbers from industry, and here arise problems).
I'm sorry for the rash.

 

[cacciatorino]

They usually do it for spare parts. by us do it (limitedly by luck) only at the level of motors and some particular components. on bearings or guides never had big diktat.
different speech regarding the electrical components, having to integrate to their existing systems there is a harlequin of choices that impose, at the level of panels, plc and other.

That's right, I almost always happen to work "understood" and that's why. I understand who the machine has to build it, but also who has to maintain it in operation and has the technicians trained on certain systems and not others, as well as special conditions of supply on certain components of a particular brand.

if my client uses dense robots because I have to impose them apt and force it to have a double line of spare parts and to reform the internal maintenance technicians?

 

[Calender]

when the commercial cannot argue the technical choices at the base of a product (and unfortunately, especially in Italy, are many) happen these things.
I believe then there is also an Italian problem (due to our character): that is a general attitude to servicing, as if we always have to take advantage of a perennial sense of inferiority (but we are recently on the market - but we are small - but then they buy it from others - etc.) and therefore we adapt to every possible customization, losing in organization and remaining perennial craftsmen (who however want numbers from industry, and here arise problems).
I'm sorry for the rash.

in fact the feeling was just that... but I was looking for some confirmation

we say that I believe that it is difficult for a customer to buy a line for the brand of two screws to recirculation ... but at this point I start to look at reality and to think seriously that our ut efforts aimed at supporting what really counts (both technically and as timeliness) are continually vanified by the hands of the commercial department ... said this I also end my rash and thank you for the delucidazioni

 

[meccanicamg]

Unfortunately customers have their capitulate. in Italy you can more manage to maintain the standards of your company, while for abroad and for large groups unfortunately you need to adapt the projects to their brands and only if technically demonstrable you can place the "personal" solution.

 

[TETRASTORE]

if my client uses dense robots because I have to impose them apt and force it to have a double line of spare parts and to reform the internal maintenance technicians?

I fully agree with regard to complete machines such as robots, cobots, portals, fillers, conveyor belts, etc. which I find from the market already ready to be integrated into the commissioned plant; I can only buy these products if necessary according to the specifications that are provided to me by the customer.
the problem is different for the vast world of components, even standardized, for example: gearboxes, electric and hydraulic motors, linear guides, bearings, etc. that can be used on multiple machines for which it is necessary to store in order to be able to respect the timing and contain the costs.
for who, as I think @calender, does not only design but must also build complex plants or machines, it is necessary to maintain a warehouse in order to have economies of scale and to respond in a short time to the demands of both new plants and spare parts.
the management and the immobility of thousands of components (many of which have the same function) with a low index of rotation, involves sensitive costs that affect the business economy affecting competitiveness.
for this, as already expressed in some previous posts, it is indispensable to invest in an efficient and authoritative commercial service.

 

[cacciatorino]

I fully agree with regard to complete machines such as robots, cobots, portals, fillers, conveyor belts, etc. which I find from the market already ready to be integrated into the commissioned plant; I can only buy these products if necessary according to the specifications that are provided to me by the customer.
the problem is different for the vast world of components, even standardized, for example: gearboxes, electric and hydraulic motors, linear guides, bearings, etc. that can be used on multiple machines for which it is necessary to store in order to be able to respect the timing and contain the costs.
for who, as I think @calender, does not only design but must also build complex plants or machines, it is necessary to maintain a warehouse in order to have economies of scale and to respond in a short time to the demands of both new plants and spare parts.
the management and the immobility of thousands of components (many of which have the same function) with a low index of rotation, involves sensitive costs that affect the business economy affecting competitiveness.
for this, as already expressed in some previous posts, it is indispensable to invest in an efficient and authoritative commercial service.

Sincerely, I don't think that normally the spare parts are at the expense of the plant's supplier, most of them provide a list of "recommended parts" and then think about who needs to run the plant and decide what to keep in the house and what not. Of course, we're talking about cars on a contract.

 

[meccanicamg]

Sincerely, I don't think that normally the spare parts are at the expense of the plant's supplier, most of them provide a list of "recommended parts" and then think about who needs to run the plant and decide what to keep in the house and what not. Of course, we're talking about cars on a contract.

That's right. we also design mooring, we make plants, software and installation as well as training and testing.
but before commissioning is given to the customer the distinct spare parts with the priority index. If he doesn't buy, he's still.
the spare parts we can manage them but usually you components drawing....only some.
the rest... buy yourself in the factory... the hiwin guides... we don't keep them in stock for the customer... not even the red gearboxes.

Yet customers once want to sew the red atra, then bonfigliooli, then brevini etc and many gearboxes are not at all interchangeable despite selling it is commercial bullshit.