• This forum is the machine-generated translation of www.cad3d.it/forum1 - the Italian design community. Several terms are not translated correctly.

choose a suitable cam not to throw money...

  • Thread starter Thread starter AlbertoP
  • Start date Start date

AlbertoP

Guest
Hi, I'm brand new and it's my first post.
I wanted to ask you for help to understand better how I can make a decision given my total ignorance about the cams. I know that these questions on the forums make a lot of them and the most experienced if they can slave them. I also ask you only a tip or an article to read to guide me.

I do work on behalf of third parties of milling and turning cnc, small series, 2-5 pieces at a time mostly. non-prototyping, simple things on average like pine trees, aluminum blocks, rollers, forks, etc. work all materials from plastic to inox to aluminum hardened up to special alloys.
as I need to speed up the times I thought that a cam could help me to reduce a bit the programming time (now we program on board machine on fanuc controls in iso for milling, while in mazatrol for turning) I have 2 milling centers (both 3 axes with nikken divider) and 2 cnc mazak lathes (one with motorized but not c or y axis).
I don't know I hope I've described what you needed. .
Now I have made me make a lot of quotes, cat 5, solid-edge cam, open mind hypermill and mastercam, to today those that seem more to my case are open mind and mastercam, but I don't know, can you give me some opinion?
:rolleyes:
quote open mind 23000€
estimate mastercam 12500€


signal the message
 
Hi.
I would advise you to evaluate gibbscam (also seen that the dealer is the microsytem of bologna so close to you).
It is not a program, according to me, like the most blasphemed ones, but in the last
years has made remarkable steps forward and is suitable for series and simple to use .

Hi.
 
AlbertoP said:
Hi, I'm brand new and it's my first post.
I wanted to ask you for help to understand better how I can make a decision given my total ignorance about the cams. I know that these questions on the forums make a lot of them and the most experienced if they can slave them. I also ask you only a tip or an article to read to guide me.

I do work on behalf of third parties of milling and turning cnc, small series, 2-5 pieces at a time mostly. non-prototyping, simple things on average like pine trees, aluminum blocks, rollers, forks, etc. work all materials from plastic to inox to aluminum hardened up to special alloys.
as I need to speed up the times I thought that a cam could help me to reduce a bit the programming time (now we program on board machine on fanuc controls in iso for milling, while in mazatrol for turning) I have 2 milling centers (both 3 axes with nikken divider) and 2 cnc mazak lathes (one with motorized but not c or y axis).
I don't know I hope I've described what you needed. .
Now I have made me make a lot of quotes, cat 5, solid-edge cam, open mind hypermill and mastercam, to today those that seem more to my case are open mind and mastercam, but I don't know, can you give me some opinion?
:rolleyes:
quote open mind 23000€
estimate mastercam 12500€


signal the message
Click to expand...
as I have already written in other posts the fundamental problem of cam is having a working postprocessor
So put some stakes in the contract you're gonna draft, if the post doesn't work the cam you need
for the fresa there should be no problem, I see it a little + hard for the lathes with mazatrol (maybe putting the isa tab that reads iso would be + easy )
ask for a demo on your piece (made the site starting from drawing 3d ) , for each car and then evaluated

Hi.
 
I'm sorry if I ask you, but there are also post-processors in the openmind quote? 3d milling with split control also? What about the cinema? That figure seems a little bit short to me. a few years ago for a complete package (without the 5x), with a post-processor of an averagely complex machine was about 45/50k (including the module cad 3d).
coming to the therefore, normally those who pass to the cam have one of the following problems, or have pieces that cannot be mistaken or have very rognose geometries or processes to be realized.
I think you don't go back to any of the above exposed cases.
if your problem is the speed of execution, do it in time masked in the office with dedicated software that simulate the path, there are both specific for cn or generic (type the cymco).
when you drive the programming time will be much decreased.
I at the equation cam=speed never believed, better cam=precision/perfection, wary from who wants to make you believe.
then if you want to go to the cam, so much of earned, but you have to put in mind to invest a lot of time and passion (beyond money), besides you have to have a person who almost exclusively dedicates to that.
about software, more than money, evaluates learning time: usually the greater the cost and the potential, the greater the time of learning ... then if the dick does not help, no I tell you ... :biggrin::biggrin:
also the time relative to the optimization of the posts is considerable species for machines with different axes/texts.
another big problem is having 3d files (or at least 2d), many companies don't give them to you or, even worse, they give them to you but they tell you to rely on paper for the quotation, in this regard how would you be put?
If you have no experience, I highly recommend a consultation with someone expert in the field, who value your reality and not a seller of this or that software, given the period ... :frown:
 
Shrek said:
I'm sorry if I ask you, but there are also post-processors in the openmind quote? 3d milling with split control also? What about the cinema? That figure seems a little bit short to me. a few years ago for a complete package (without the 5x), with a post-processor of an averagely complex machine was about 45/50k (including the module cad 3d).
coming to the therefore, normally those who pass to the cam have one of the following problems, or have pieces that cannot be mistaken or have very rognose geometries or processes to be realized.
I think you don't go back to any of the above exposed cases.
if your problem is the speed of execution, do it in time masked in the office with dedicated software that simulate the path, there are both specific for cn or generic (type the cymco).
when you drive the programming time will be much decreased.
I at the equation cam=speed never believed, better cam=precision/perfection, wary from who wants to make you believe.
then if you want to go to the cam, so much of earned, but you have to put in mind to invest a lot of time and passion (beyond money), besides you have to have a person who almost exclusively dedicates to that.
about software, more than money, evaluates learning time: usually the greater the cost and the potential, the greater the time of learning ... then if the dick does not help, no I tell you ... :biggrin::biggrin:
also the time relative to the optimization of the posts is considerable species for machines with different axes/texts.
another big problem is having 3d files (or at least 2d), many companies don't give them to you or, even worse, they give them to you but they tell you to rely on paper for the quotation, in this regard how would you be put?
If you have no experience, I highly recommend a consultation with someone expert in the field, who value your reality and not a seller of this or that software, given the period ... :frown:
Click to expand...
thank you, finalmnte someone who can give me an opinion...now I am in a hurry and I will respond better tomorrow...thanks a thousand shrek!:biggrin:
 
Finally, then it is true that for me perhaps it is a bit wasted the cam, but I have many doors that could be opened with my customers that now I cannot open, so I would like to insert it.
inside to the quote of open mind there is the 3 axes and the compressed turning of 3 post for the 3 different types of cnc that I have and 9 days course. In theory the price maybe is bass because it was part of an offer of a fair, always in theory should not be worth after, but I think if uole sell it there is the case that you leave me that.
but I can't understand how to subdivide cams. I explain for example mastercam for simple pieces and turning, hypermill for complex cutter of surfaces, top solid for 5 axes, I shot randomly but it is possible to split the cams in a classification of 4 or 5 in this way? I address the whole forum of course. . .
Thank you.
 
paradoxically the cad/cam on paper costs much less than a tool machine, according to me and as shrek said, it needs an important technical deepening, because unlike the tool machine, the software is much more difficult to change (for archives, training, compatibility, etc.).

if I can give you advice, call the gentlemen of the various cad/cam (topsolid, mastercam etc...), the more you see and the better it is, to make you also experience.
evaluates all keeping in mind that with such a tool you have to be able to do simple things (fresh 2d - 2d 1/2) but you have to be able to open on new markets and with possible new machines (to bypass squares, to mill in 5 axes, to mask turning times with double turrets etc...). in a few words, the cam must have a life in your company of at least 10 years and therefore seeks a solution that can over time be satisfying for future and not only current needs.

given your premise, it identifies a solution that can work
- on solids, surfaces and 2d (there are still many executives dxf, dwg),
- that offers you autonomy in modifying designs and having a cad that allows you at least to make equipment, masks or make a piece from scratch: you are a tertiary account, everything happens to you... even pdf!
- a software that allows you to do 2d jobs
- a software that makes you do turning work with all related issues (torn, motorized management, y and evaluate axis b, multi task, double spindle, synchronisms for a tomorrow).
- a smart software on the 2d 1/2 on the position (diviser, board head etc.).
- good software on 3 axes and 5 axes continuously
- a quality post processor!
- a software that accepts the modifications on the design without having to remake the programming (usual problematic of those who work for third parties)

It's an important choice. If you're from the exile, the various mastercam topsolids, and others that have lathe and milled modules are in emilia if not mistaken. make them come to you and show you a demo on your pieces! (not what they want):
 
Hello Albertop
I understand that it must not be a simple choice of yours,
I highly recommend you try featurecam,
It seems to me that the cost is lower than those mentioned,
I have used it for several years and its characteristic is speed and simplicity! !
for a third party according to me is the maximum.
you can download it from the site and try, of course it will not produce any nc code, plus
Postprocessors are editable through its own program.
to resent
 
hi seeing the names listed I realized that missing the one I used that is called topsolid cam if I were you I would take a look.

Hi.
 
Hi.
I do not interfere with the price speech but on the technical speech
if I'm not mistaken hypermill does not manage the lathes with y c and motorized, at least so they told me a few months (fa ragion for which I took featurecam)
are specialized on turning speech with axis b.
As long as this is true all reasonings fall!! Can you confirm that?
 
bulinorotto said:
Hi.
I do not interfere with the price speech but on the technical speech
if I'm not mistaken hypermill does not manage the lathes with y c and motorized, at least so they told me a few months (fa ragion for which I took featurecam)
are specialized on turning speech with axis b.
As long as this is true all reasonings fall!! Can you confirm that?
Click to expand...
from what the representative told me, manages the motorized, but I also believe the y axis, I do not know the axis b... not having it and not having in program in the future a car with a board b I did not even ask him the question.
I think it would be poor if it wasn't among its peculiarities. . .
 
AlbertoP said:
Hi, I'm brand new and it's my first post.
I wanted to ask you for help to understand better how I can make a decision given my total ignorance about the cams. I know that these questions on the forums make a lot of them and the most experienced if they can slave them. I also ask you only a tip or an article to read to guide me.

I do work on behalf of third parties of milling and turning cnc, small series, 2-5 pieces at a time mostly. non-prototyping, simple things on average like pine trees, aluminum blocks, rollers, forks, etc. work all materials from plastic to inox to aluminum hardened up to special alloys.
as I need to speed up the times I thought that a cam could help me to reduce a bit the programming time (now we program on board machine on fanuc controls in iso for milling, while in mazatrol for turning) I have 2 milling centers (both 3 axes with nikken divider) and 2 cnc mazak lathes (one with motorized but not c or y axis).
I don't know I hope I've described what you needed. .
Now I have made me make a lot of quotes, cat 5, solid-edge cam, open mind hypermill and mastercam, to today those that seem more to my case are open mind and mastercam, but I don't know, can you give me some opinion?
:rolleyes:
quote open mind 23000€
estimate mastercam 12500€


signal the message
Click to expand...
Hello tree

you tried to see the delcam family is greathttp://www.delcam.com/languages/it/general/software/software.aspOppure spirithttp://www.dptechnology.com/it/products.asptebis:http://www.tebis.com/cms/index.php?id=9&l=2delcam you have a lot of choice there are various cam software, if not mistaken you should find them in ancona or province

Hi.
 
I use mastercam since 98, I tried several cad/cams in my life... mastercam is the world's best selling cadcam and if you have a workshop... go serene and safe: the return of the investment is very fast, the post processors are developed very well here in Italy. in the end I can tell you that they are not expensive, indeed, for what the package offers is worth every penny, the spectacular potential... ask for a demo;)
 
AlbertoP said:
from what the representative told me, manages the motorized, but I also believe the y axis, I do not know the axis b... not having it and not having in program in the future a car with a board b I did not even ask him the question.
I think it would be poor if it wasn't among its peculiarities. . .
Click to expand...
Good evening.
I usually program 5 axes work centers, but when my colleague programmer head of the turning department with his ex delcam does not ride a comma in a pack of hours, in a short time we manage to fresare with x-y radial motorized, or x-c when there is not enough running, without problems. (mors nlx2500 y)
the heart of everything, as already explained in previous posts, is the post processor, which is worth almost as much as the cam.
 
Kekkone said:
Good evening.
I usually program 5 axes work centers, but when my colleague programmer head of the turning department with his ex delcam does not ride a comma in a pack of hours, in a short time we manage to fresare with x-y radial motorized, or x-c when there is not enough running, without problems. (mors nlx2500 y)
the heart of everything, as already explained in previous posts, is the post processor, which is worth almost as much as the cam.
Click to expand...
when comparing various cams it is misleading to say that with the penco software used by guy it takes a lot while with the pallino software used by caio it takes little... just to be lazy;)
 

Forum statistics

Threads
44,997
Messages
339,767
Members
4
Latest member
ibt

Members online

No members online now.
Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Back
Top