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confusion of roles

  • Thread starter Thread starter davide_r
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davide_r

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I happen, more and more frequently, to come across by reading newspapers or advertisements on the internet, with requests of this type:
“cercasi mechanical designer with qualification or mechanical expert or graduate in engineering”.I allow myself to make some considerations that seem obvious but obviously not for everyone.

from a qualification or maturity degree to a degree in mechanical engineering there is a huge difference, so I do not understand how one can say or the other as if they were equivalent. not that an objective reality is to be considered degrading compared to another, but simply should be different and complementary roles. in university courses, as well as graduates know, examinations are included coma analysis 1 and 2, mechanics, technical drawing etc. a qualification must instead be considered as a “reduced” role and therefore with the possibility to cover in a flexible and flexible way functions that are not normally covered by an engineer. qualification or professional qualification diplomas require an education that takes care of the practical aspect, technical drawing knowledge, workshop work, foundry techniques, machine tools, welding, materials etc., as well as the theoretical one, while universities are more aimed at giving an academic theoretical preparation, therefore, because things work, roles should complete each other.

Moreover if I look for a graduate person, I will write “cercasi mechanical engineer” and it is perfectly useless to write with knowledge mechanical design since this is obvious because understood in his university preparation. in a few words it is as if a transport company that operates internationally sought a driver with a licence cqc, goods and adr and in requests of skills wrote “capable of driving the car”; and again, if the driver with the requirements to drive a tir drive the car who brings the goods with the car? Similarly if anyone studying a life to graduate is then employed eight hours a day to draw on a cad station, who performs the tasks that normally are of his competence for role, norm, tradition and nature?
 
excuse me, imagine having a small office of 10 stations, and the most recurring craft is to fill excel sheets and correct planimetries in autocad.

now imagine the following candidates:

candidate for: mechanical designer, 25 years, 10 years of experience, salary requested 2000€/month
candidate b: mechanical expert, 25 years, 6 years of experience, salary requested 1900€/month
canditated c: mechanical engineer, 25 years old, graduate, salary requested 800€/month

Who would you hire?

you remember this debate (post #58)?

said this, we are in Italy, how many offices do you know that really require the skills of an engineer?
http://www.cad3d.it/forum1/showthread.php?p=283885, post #11
 
fulvio explained the situation very clearly. Let me add.

If an engineer is willing to do the work of an expert, with the same pay or not, the problem is of the company's own engineer.
then for the company makes "nice" having some engineers in the staff, so much does not pay them as such.
 
kindly, if you know a company that pays a mechanical designer with ten or twenty years of experience 2000€/month, I would be very grateful if you let me know its name so that I can propose for a future employment. with that figure I can safely work all over Italy with the travel expenses included to me. If instead it is only to fill excel sheets and to correct planimetrie in autocad I can also do it with 800€/month and more, in homage, I would also fold copies of the drawings.

to gil I answer: what they release to make the licenses b so much there are fior of unemployed drivers with the license ce + cqc willing to drive a van with the pay of a driver who brings collects.
 
kindly, if you know a company that pays a mechanical designer with ten or twenty years of experience 2000€/month, I would be very grateful if you let me know its name so that I can propose for a future employment. with that figure I can safely work all over Italy with the travel expenses included to me. If instead it is only to fill excel sheets and to correct planimetrie in autocad I can also do it with 800€/month and more, in homage, I would also fold copies of the drawings.
Well, obviously there are no:biggrin: but I believe that the example of lightning is not to be understood in the "absolute" sense.
It is true that the first candidate has 10 years of experience at 25..... or he started to run technical dwg at 15 to 20 renderings, and already at 10 he was studying the variables of individual sw. :wink:

If you want something + "real" here's how it would be like me:

candidate for: mechanical designer, 30 years, 10 years of experience, salary requested 1500€/month
candidate b: mechanical expert, 25 years, 6 years of experience, salary required 1200€/month
canditated c: mechanical engineer, 25 years old, graduate, salary requested 800€/month

and I think it is difficult (not to say impossible) to find someone who gives you 1500 euretti a month.......
but the situation does not change the 800 candidate's heaths there are less than 1200 b and many less than a.
So who would you hire?

But who would you hire?

edit:
and this situation makes it clear that the confusion of roles you complained at the beginning, and that you see (and I see too) in many ads.
in this regard there has already been here on the forum a 3ad very interesting this:http://www.cad3d.it/forum1/showthread.php?t=5941&highlight=annunci+lavoro

ciao
 
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Well, obviously there are no:biggrin: but I believe that the example of lightning is not to be understood in the "absolute" sense.
It is true that the first candidate has 10 years of experience at 25..... or he started to run technical dwg at 15 to 20 renderings, and already at 10 he was studying the variables of individual sw. :wink:

If you want something + "real" here's how it would be like me:

candidate for: mechanical designer, 30 years, 10 years of experience, salary requested 1500€/month
candidate b: mechanical expert, 25 years, 6 years of experience, salary required 1200€/month
canditated c: mechanical engineer, 25 years old, graduate, salary requested 800€/month

and I think it is difficult (not to say impossible) to find someone who gives you 1500 euretti a month.......
but the situation does not change the 800 candidate's heaths there are less than 1200 b and many less than a.
So who would you hire?

But who would you hire?

edit:
and this situation makes it clear that the confusion of roles you complained at the beginning, and that you see (and I see too) in many ads.
in this regard there has already been here on the forum a 3ad very interesting this:http://www.cad3d.it/forum1/showthread.php?t=5941&highlight=annunci+lavoro

ciao
The fact that I don't have to hire anyone, but if I did, I would choose the most suitable candidate to play that role, and only later I would think of remuneration. to put a graduate in engineering, after studying a life to copy data on excel tables knowing well that within that firm will never do anything else, it means to make it become a frustrated, with the consequence that even that little one must do will end up doing it with little results.
 
The fact that I don't have to hire anyone, but if I did, I would choose the most suitable candidate to play that role, and only later I would think of remuneration. to put a graduate in engineering, after studying a life to copy data on excel tables knowing well that within that firm will never do anything else, it means to make it become a frustrated, with the consequence that even that little one must do will end up doing it with little results.
and this honors you: finger: to you but...... Unfortunately, you're not all the others.

the majority of entrepreneurs (or a good part) behaves as it described fulvio and I reiterated, or as in the link I put, or as you described at the beginning. :frown:

Then we can discuss infinity about why and how it came to this point, but we would go out of topic, and then there are many other discussions in the section on this topic and the like.

Hi.
 
to gil I answer: what they release to make the licenses b so much there are fior of unemployed drivers with the license ce + cqc willing to drive a van with the pay of a driver who brings collects.
I'm allowed to answer if I can.

I don't know if and how many good drivers are walking, but the point is that they release their licenses b because there are people, like me maybe, that every now and then you want to take a ride without depending on anyone.

paraphrasing your sentence :smile: :

Moreover, because they release degrees on degrees if there are so much pride of unemployed graduates in the economic field, history of art, etc. etc. and willing to do environmental workers, or waiters with waiters' pay?

which then is not said to be so much worse as salary, moreover every legal job deserves respect.

Hi.
 
I'm allowed to answer if I can.

I don't know if and how many good drivers are walking, but the point is that they release their licenses b because there are people, like me maybe, that every now and then you want to take a ride without depending on anyone.

paraphrasing your sentence :smile: :

Moreover, because they release degrees on degrees if there are so much pride of unemployed graduates in the economic field, history of art, etc. etc. and willing to do environmental workers, or waiters with waiters' pay?

which then is not said to be so much worse as salary, moreover every legal job deserves respect.

Hi.
well, you gave the right answer; they release the license b because this has its intrinsic validity and its function even if there are higher licenses, otherwise we would all walk.
 

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