fare o far fare?

[Jeanmart]

Good morning to all... I wish my second post to stimulate a discussion that I am sure passionate about all those who directly or indirectly deal with (or try to do so) design.
Somehow I've been doing this for about 20 years. with ups and downs like many but always with a rock: .. is it better to design for others and get paid royaltees with a contract like adi or should try to produce (maybe in company with others) what thought?
how many of you are slowed down by investment costs but would like to undertake an activity in your own, perhaps risking even a little but certain that what counts is always and only the idea?:biggrin:

to you the word.. .

 

[Jeanmart]

Well, I thought the subject would be interested in more readers... .
Am I in the wrong forum? ? ?

 

[Fulvio Romano]

No, it's a vague proposal.

- if you plan puppets, you can also produce them
- if you design cars, you will never be able to start a production chain and enter the market
- if you plan mobile phones, you probably don't even care about it.

...

etc.

 

[Jeanmart]

Sure. I wasn't very clear. designing a car is not within my reach and I believe, excluded dreamers, within reach of a few.:biggrin:

I meant things like furnishing accessories. generically we can talk about lamps, bathroom accessories, taps, clothes hangers, various gadgets etc. where technologies range from molding, micro-casting and die casting, etc.

I wanted to open a discussion with people with "foots on the ground" who might have had some real experience and asked themselves the problem of producing their own product or producing it from third parties by perceiving the royaltees according to the sold.

See you soon.

 

[cacciatorino]

Sure. I wasn't very clear. designing a car is not within my reach and I believe, excluded dreamers, within reach of a few.:biggrin:

I meant things like furnishing accessories. generically we can talk about lamps, bathroom accessories, taps, clothes hangers, various gadgets etc. where technologies range from molding, micro-casting and die casting, etc.

I wanted to open a discussion with people with "foots on the ground" who might have had some real experience and asked themselves the problem of producing their own product or producing it from third parties by perceiving the royaltees according to the sold.

See you soon.

I think the problem maybe more than industrial is commercial chain. If you have to do an injection molded or die-casting item, it's obvious that you'll make it to a company that then has that machine, without buying the press. the same for packaging.

What's left? distribution and sale. At that point you can decide whether to make an autarchist or lean on an existing chain.

Where's the difference at the end? the difference is in risking your capital (make you produce 1000 items hoping to sell them) or in giving the thing in management to a third party who will accept economic risks, and any gains. probably the choice depends on the product, the economic condition of the subject, the market to which the object is addressed (if of large series or niche, perhaps sold for wording).

 

[Jeanmart]

I meant that if you are (at least you) a convinced supporter of your ideas you might think about producing them in your own (if not so, entrepreneurs from where they are born? ).
So if you need to make an injection molded piece you don't buy the molding machine and you don't even put on a mechanical workshop of mold construction. You just make yourself a piece of work. However you can organize your company in terms of image, warehouse "just in time" and sales network.
the alternative is to license or sell your idea to a manufacturer already entered.
in this case the producer will pay you the royaltees (contract adi?, 3% on the price reserved?) according to that (which declares) sold.
not always this experience is rewarding... unless someone at listening has different experience..

♪

 

[Fulvio Romano]

I remember a discussion about something like that... God knows how to find it though. the person in question had designed a lamp, and had "given" it perceping royalties. one day is called by the producer who offers him money to close the contract because the lamps do not sell, the warehouses are full and they no longer want to carry out the speech.
he was about to accept, then, so much for curiosity goes in the shops where these lamps were sold, waiting to find the full warehouses, he found instead responsible sales pissed because those lamps went like bread, and his client was not behind us with production... .

That's a risk.

 

[Jeanmart]

the point is: do you feel guaranteed by a contract (style) adi?
where there's no "ideasuit"?
I have had negative experiences regarding the payment with royaltees because at the time when you ask for a verification (admitted that they give it to you) on the sale your relationship passes from a condition of "trust" to that of a "devil" who thinks it is cheating.
so a possible solution is to think about producing in your own (which then in my opinion is what all entrepreneurs think... at first, then repent. . )
then to return to the problem: is there someone who has found different solutions to "present" their projects?

♪

 

[Fulvio Romano]

and if you make produce, but you manage the sales network, so check it, but you don't actually "get your nose" because it's an activity you're paid for?

 

[Jeanmart]

and if you make produce, but you manage the sales network, so check it, but you don't actually "get your nose" because it's an activity you're paid for?

I don't understand. What do you want to support?
I'm just saying that a royaltee contract doesn't guarantee you a minimum and if the idea is worth you'll only regret.
So unless there is a different road, if you have an idea or you produce it/commercialize it or you hold it and you will never know if it was valid.

♪

 

[poldo]

...the person in question had designed a lamp, and had "given" it perceiving royalties. one day is called by the producer who offers him money to close the contract because the lamps do not sell, the warehouses are full and they no longer want to carry out the speech.
he was about to accept, then, so much for curiosity goes in the shops where these lamps were sold, waiting to find the full warehouses, he found instead responsible sales pissed because those lamps went like bread, and his client was not behind us with production... .

That's a risk.

Mah, I think it's a bit of an underground story. I mean, the guy, by chance, enters a store, asks and in a moment discovers that the product is strange, while before he had not noticed anything... but...
and anyway, if I were the seller and a customer arrives in shop that proves interested in a product and asks me if it is a product that likes and sells, I say yes, of course that sells, otherwise I would change his mind. he, the customer, would you think that if the product does not sell because it should buy it? and this is not dishonesty, it is only skill in placing the product.

and if you make produce, but you manage the sales network, so check it, but you don't actually "get your nose" because it's an activity you're paid for?

So do another job, you're no longer a designer but become an entrepreneur, it's a choice.
There are a lot of brands that do this, totally external production, third-party accounts.
instead almost totality produces only a percentage of the product from third parties.

...a contract at royaltee does not guarantee you minimally and if the idea is worth you will only regret.mj

If the idea is worth and the royalties contract you have done is well done by a lawyer and not downloaded from the internet, rest assured that you will not have any regrets.
unless the product, or the project, is poor and therefore does not sell, but this is another speech.

So unless there is a different road, if you have an idea or you produce it/commercialize it or you hold it and you will never know if it was valid.

There are no different roads.
if the idea is valid and makes "sold" big numbers, the manufacturer will not try to fool who allowed him to have a winning product in the catalog, instead will pamper him in the hope of going ahead with other products over time.
and this does not necessarily imply that the producer must be a "honest" person, as long as he is a producer, and therefore an entrepreneur, as soon as he wakes up.
and then to do this job it is not enough to have a "good idea", you must also know how to deal with the various interlocutors. There is, fortunately, no professional albo that fixes minimum wages for a project, which happens instead for the various dentists, lawyers, engineers, etc...
You're good at designing, more jobs.
The more you are good at contracting, the more gadagni.

 

[giovanni.a]

sin, I have seen only now this interesting discussion.
I therefore bring my experience: I designed office chairs, community and home in almost all materials and technologies available, as well as door handles and windows; armchairs and sofas, lamps and more. I have almost always done it by designing the products autonomously and processing projects of maximum and rendering for the presentations, which at first I used traditional graphic techniques to pass in more recent years to 3d modeling and photorealistic rendering. I was looking for the most suitable company, not too far from home, and with them I was discussing possible production technologies. based on their needs and opinions of modelers, moulders, etc., I elaborated constructive drawings.
in this first phase I worked with a contract on which we agreed progress and relative compensation. arrived at 80/90 % of the work: to understand, to the prototype almost at the level of production that could be photographed for the catalogs and brought to the fairs, we passed to the bargain, with new agreement, on the sale of rights to royalties or definitive. I have done few with definitive cession; Most roy. some have become definitive cession after a few years of sales. the first were contracted by many pages, but with time I saw that they did not need more than 1 or 2 pages well done. I found that, at my level (designer/designer) I could never support investments, for example, of 2/300m € for models, prototypes, molds etc, for an office chair, but not even 20/30m € for a simple community chair (I am talking only about equipment and models, not counting catalogs, participations at fairs etc.) so I always looked for companies with which a good dialogue was established.
the results were the most varied: I had good economic satisfaction with most and some frigging, for a little part. Ponderous contracts or patents serve little, if you do not have the strength (economic) to defend them. and as it was said in some previous answer, even with verification clauses of sales, it is almost impossible to get the real data of sale, if they do not want to give you, therefore there is only to hope to have entrusted the product to the right company.

I see that I'm doing it too long and I close here, but there's a lot to say about the relationship between the client and the designer... If you're interested, next time.

Thursday