guide to marking

[-Mc-]

Hello, everyone! I open this discussion to make sure designers are about to venture into a business, have clear ideas on this very complex topic: marks;
If I as a designer wanted to build a machine, from the simple "frullator" to the ventilation system of a tunnel, how should I proceed?
- what are the steps to be taken, for a mechanical company producing machines and selling them on the Italian and European market, to have the famous brand?
- is it always necessary and necessary to mark any machinery we produce and sell, or not?
I hope that this forum section can be useful to all, firstly to subscribed :biggrin: thank you all!

 

[MBT]

I in the meantime move everything in "normative and safety", which will not respond to norms but certainly responds to those of common sense... ;-)

 

[gerod]

meanwhile "marking" does not mark.

designers are about to venture into business, have clear ideas on this very complex subject

designers must know the rules but it is the manufacturer who has to know what goes on! !

If I as a designer wanted to build a machine, from the simple "frullator" to the ventilation system of a tunnel, how should I proceed?

study the norms and apply them.
eye that simple blender is not a car!!! read the application field well.

- what are the steps to be taken, for a mechanical company producing machines and selling them on the Italian and European market, to have the famous brand?

the marking implies that the product must comply with certain requirements of a standard.
There are no steps, there is culture, training, experience and perhaps rely on competent people.
I remember that we talk about marking, not brand. This is fundamental.

- is it always necessary and necessary to mark any machinery we produce and sell, or not?

Yes, even if you use them in the company. We are talking about commissioning or movement of goods. It is obvious that if you sell in Canada you must certify according to the csa, if in Russian according to gost....

If you don't know what the iter ce of a car means, take a nice course first (at least 4 days, the 8 days are worth little and serve nothing)
Hi.

 

[SOLID]

If I as a designer wanted to build a machine, from the simple "frullator" to the ventilation system of a tunnel, how should I proceed?
- what are the steps to be taken, for a mechanical company producing machines and selling them on the Italian and European market, to have the famous brand?
- is it always necessary and necessary to mark any machinery we produce and sell, or not?

Hi.
I would point out that I am not an expert in the specific field, but I have repeatedly read the 2006/42/ce directive to which I believe you should refer.
the steps to be taken are clearly described in Article 5 (1)

"the manufacturer or his agent, before entering the
market and/or put in service a machine:
a) ensure that it meets the relevant essential safety requirements
and health protection indicated in Annex I;
(b) ensure that the technical dossier referred to in the Annex thereto, part
a, be available;
c) provides in particular the necessary information, such as
example the instructions;
(d) the appropriate conformity assessment procedures
pursuant to Article 12;
(c) the declaration of conformity within the meanings
of Annex I, Part 1, Section A, and make sure that you accompany
the machine;
f) affixes the 'ce' marking within the meaning of Article 16.

- is it always necessary and necessary to mark any machinery we produce and sell, or not?

If they fall within the scope of the directive, surely they are

 

[SOLID]

eye that simple blender is not a car!!! read the application field well.

hi gerod,
forgives my ignorance

but by reading the definition of "machine" in Article 2 I would say that it would fully fit into the competences of the directive

"all equipped or intended to be equipped
of a drive system other than human force
or direct animal, composed of parts or components, of
which at least one mobile, connected solidly
for a very determined application"

 

[SOLID]

(c) the declaration of conformity within the meanings
of Annex I, Part 1, Section A, and make sure that you accompany
the machine;
f) affixes the 'ce' marking within the meaning of Article 16.

small personal experience.
from what I have seen doing in some companies, it practically reduces to fill out a simple sheet (declaration of conformity that must be attached to the technical dossier) where the self-declared manufacturer that the machine is in conformity with the directive... taking responsibility! all here:smile:

 

[gerod]

♪
if I read art. 2 but not art. 1
Look what the Identation K says:
electrical and electronic products falling within categories
Whereas, in accordance with Directive 72/23/cee of the
Council of 19 February 1973 on the approximation of the laws of the Member States relating to
of the laws of the Member States relating to the material
electrical intended for use within certain
voltage limits (3):
— household appliances,
— audio and video equipment,
— information technology equipment,
— ordinary office machinery,
— low connection and control equipment
tension,
— electric motors;

the kitchen blender enters us!!! !
the blender for industrial use instead is machine.

Pay attention to the names!!! Read everything.

 

[SOLID]

Pay attention to the names!!! Read everything.

and yes :biggrin: there is always the ankle!

Thank you!

 

[Plus ENGINEERING]

...the kitchen blender comes in! !
the blender for industrial use instead is machine.. .

in any case the marking is mandatory.

 

[-Mc-]

Thank you all for your help!
summarizing, placing the case that I must produce and marchaire there is an "industrial sweeper" formed by a cylinder container diameter 900 x 1000 of height with a rotary basket inside it and a single-phase motor in axis to the shaft of drive of the basket itself.
How should I proceed to have this blessed marking?
to whom should I address without spending a capital?
what book or manual powers to buy if it exists?

I work with a small carpentry and I don't know how to do it in these cases.

 

[SOLID]

How should I proceed to have this blessed marking?

Then nobody gives you the marking.
it is you, as a manufacturer and seller that you have to auto certify the machine as compliant to the current legislation, drafting the declaration of conformity and placing the marking on the machine.

 

[gerod]

in any case the marking is mandatory.

Yes, bt and emc!
on the rest quoto solid.
Hi.

 

[SOLID]

I would like to make a small observation on the certification of machines, and in particular to highlight in my opinion a lack of norm on the technical skills of companies that certify their products.
By comparing 37/2008 with regard to the plant sector, the law imposes a technical manager for each installation company who must possess certain requirements (laurea, diploma, years of experience, etc.), and also imposes dimensional limits on the plants that they themselves can design (max installed capacity, square meters, etc.).
Even in the building sector there are such rules (which I do not know), in fact the builder cannot build without the project of a free professional.
everything is done according to security.. .
While for the construction industry of machinery, the machinery directive does not impose anything like that. simply have a company and "self certify" the conformity of the product, without any dimensional limit, and without having certified skills (in order to understand it does not even take the fifth grade to certify a product in accordance with the machine directive).
But we always talk about security.. .

If I said some cabbage, please correct me!

 

[gerod]

If you want to enumerate all the regulatory deficiencies but ... it would be along the list.
Let's talk about definition of machines/almost machines for example: are born as mushrooms the almost machines, but what robe are they? ?
Mah!

 

[-Mc-]

now I have the clearest ideas; So if I understood correctly:
If I were an artisan with the 5th grade (the owner of an individual mechanical company) and wanted to build and sell a "machine" as a marked blender, I should simply write a sheet where I testify that my object is suitable and built according to certain canons; the important thing is to sell the item provided with technical manual and certificate c.
Is that right?
Now other questions arise:
What do I have to write in the certificate or what rules do I have to quote? Is there a "guide" that tells me what the canons are to know what norms should I quote in the certificate? Can you post an example?
- we put the case that I sell snow blades applicable to "swimming" truck: in this case I think the regulations governing the marking are different; Are the same rules or not?
Who is it, or what is it that imposes limits?
Do I need to consult someone? the goal, of course, is always to preserve itself from any legal trouble in case of sale of unconformed objects...which, you know, lead to very salty fines. . .

 

[SOLID]

now I have the clearest ideas; So if I understood correctly:
If I were an artisan with the 5th grade (the owner of an individual mechanical company) and wanted to build and sell a "machine" as a marked blender, I should simply write a sheet where I testify that my object is suitable and built according to certain canons; the important thing is to sell the item provided with technical manual and certificate c.
Is that right?

you must also affix the marking on the machine

What do I have to write in the certificate or what rules do I have to quote? Is there a "guide" that tells me what the canons are to know what norms should I quote in the certificate? Can you post an example?

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/lexuriserv/lexuriserv.do?uri=oj:l:2006:157:0024:0086:it:pdfread Article 5 and Annex ii a is very clear on what must be written on the certificate of conformity.
or take the certificate of conformity of another machine and copy it. . .

 

[SOLID]

Do I need to consult someone? the goal, of course, is always to preserve itself from any legal trouble in case of sale of unconformed objects...which, you know, lead to very salty fines. . .

If you think of using an external consultant do well, at least the first time to learn all the procedures to take, even if the responsibility is always of the manufacturer.

there are independent certification bodies (e.g. tuv) but I do not know where they operate

 

[gerod]

I should simply write a sheet where I testify that my object is suitable and built according to certain canons

No! !
first you create the technical file then, as a final act and after checking compliance you record the declaration of conformity.

Okay?

 

[Plus ENGINEERING]

...I would simply have to write a sheet where I testify that my object is suitable and built according to certain ...

No. We must turn the matter completely. placing the brand on the product does not mean "writing a piece of paper" in the right way! means design and manufacture the product in the right way, or as prescribed by European law (or European regulations) provided for in that product. the piece of paper is only the natural continuation and final act. the things to do first are: search for the regulations that regulate the product; learn them; design and produce the product according to the regulations.

 

[SOLID]

No! !
after verifying compliance you record the declaration of conformity.

the things to do first are: search for the regulations that regulate the product; learn them; design and produce the product according to the regulations.

perfect, this is what you "should be" do first to enter the product on the market.
but what really happens?
in large structured companies always place great attention to the normative aspect, especially to protect the investments they carry out, and do this because they have money and technical staff competent.
What happens in the small manufacturing company?
I do not want to make all the grass a beam is clear, but in my opinion chaos reigns by talking about regulations.

search for regulations that regulate the product

this aspect is really an option, so in the end you just need to sign a piece of paper

the piece of paper is only the natural continuation and final act

Tags

if they read them at least!

design and manufacture the product according to regulations

usually they design and produce exclusively according to their skills and abilities.

I say that because I have had the opportunity to "work" and to experience both realities.
first I thought it was normal to design and build according to regulations, but it is not always so.
In my opinion, the real fault is the state and how the laws do.
as I have already written previously in the construction industry of machines simply be enrolled in the chamber of commerce and you can do whatever you want.
to you would seem normal if a bricklayer built a house alone and then certifies that it complies with the law, for the only fact that it is able to build it?
Or that any guy would just start working people because he's capable of doing it without having the titles?
then how can a company certify a machine as compliant if it does not have certified technical skills? and I talk about technical skills, not practical (in which maybe they are very good).
but the state allows this...