help to review used machinery

[Danlau]

hello to everyone, I wanted to ask someone for help with the revision of a used machinery.
I press that I do not belong to the field of mechanics as I am a dairy technician, I only worked as a helper in a mechanical workshop of construction machinery.

I practically bought a small used machinery, a simple construction shredding, which I personally reviewed.
being a 30-year-old car, in addition to the adhesive label with the company's name and address, has nothing. (the three-phase motor is connected directly with the power cord), nor protections.

I would like to know what it takes to be able to use it by law, like if you need some certification of idonism, particular documentation, protections for moving organs, etc.
and possibly who could issue any certifications.
Thank you very much, I hope someone can help me.

 

[maxopus]

there are institutions which carry out evaluation of machines already placed on the market, and governed by Articles 1 and 11 of the decree of the President of the Republic n. 459/96 of transposition of the machinery directive, with the issue of declaration of conformity of the machine respectively to the essential requirements of the Annex i of the directive or to the legislation in force.

I also think that electrical tests and electromagnetic compatibility are necessary to verify the conformity of the machines also from the point of view of electrical safety and electromagnetic emissions according to Directives 2006/95/ce (previously 73/23/cee), and 2004/108/ce (emc).

who is more experienced in the matter tell me if I am wrong, as I am not a pure engineer ...:biggrin::biggrin:

As for the nomination, try to call the casad of bari, I think they can at least direct you properly.http://www.csad.it/

 

[gerod]

quoto in full maxopus.
let us say that if you have purchased you must have done according to the terms expressed by article 11 of dpr459 (purchased the machine in accordance with the provisions of the rules in force at the time of sale) - I remember that in the new d.lgs that will receive the new machine directive art. 11 of dpr459 will be maintained.
therefore, in theory, you should have purchased a machine in accordance with the regulations required to dir. machines and in any case in accordance with what is expressed by the single text (d.lgs. 81/08, Annex v and technical norms).
if you bought and then adjusted then the thing is not good (both for you and for the seller).

However, there is no obligation to "certificate" the machine by a third party, it is not written anywhere.
As long as you carry out risk analysis and complies with it as expressed by you.
Let's say that it's as if you made it in accordance with the machine directive ... wish you luck because on a 30-year-old machine I don't know how convenient it is.
However you can do ... I do it for my clients, in the sense that I tell them what to do to adapt, then others will do the job that I say and if they do not, for me it is not conform.
Hi.

 

[gerod]

I forgot (I noticed only now): @danlau
read the forum rules
a presentation
do not post double discussions and in sections not relevant.
Thank you.

 

[Danlau]

Hello everyone, I am a dairy technician, I need a hand to revise a used machinery, I hope someone can help me! !

 

[gerod]

:Finger: We also understood this! ! !
did you read the answers anyway? ? ? ?
We gave it to you. you make the necessary considerations!

 

[Danlau]

Of course I read them gerod, and thank you so much! I just don't know how to move. I would have thought to fix the electrical part by making me make a small electrical picture from a technician, to operate and stop the engine, and that provides 2 sensors for protections.
then put two grids with sensors like protections, one at the entrance and the other at the exit of the tri-formaggio compartment.
I think I've arranged the part about electrical safety and moving organs.
But I don't know if there's anything else to do!
I would like to use this machine in the dairy factory, but I do not know in case of check that requirements must have in order to be able to use it without problems
:frown:

 

[gerod]

I repeat:
- or follow the Annex v of Legislative Decree 81/08 (modified from 106/09)
- or use technical standards to adapt it, i.e. to the machinery directive (it is not that with this they tell you to comply with the machine directive, but the standards are the harmonized standards of the same.
Take a consultant to understand something and tell him what to do.
I could do it myself but ... it costs you too much (in travel!!!).
Hi.

 

[Danlau]

Okay gerod, thank you very much for your help! I see if I find the machine directive on the internet to take a look at it, and in the meantime I'm looking for a consultant here.

Hello and thank you

 

[stevie]

the declaration of conformity must be signed by a manufacturer of that type of machinery and therefore competent in the field, and for all to have legal value, in the description of the activity carried out at the chamber of commerce must appear the "construction and maintenance of the type x of machines".
to understand if I build die casting plants would be senseless as well as out of order that I put myself to certify tri-formages rather than slicers or other.
in the case of a private clearly he cannot certify anything.
Whereas the certification also provides for the installation of the manufacturer's plate with the technical data of the machinery, I think it is necessary to address a manufacturer of machinery in the field.

 

[Danlau]

So if I were to be able to fix the machine by law, could I not certify myself? So I couldn't use it?

They told me that certification by third parties is not mandatory, and therefore that it would also have been possible to make me evaluate the interventions to be done for standardization, and then to provide adjustments. In this case, if for example only the electrical system should be adjusted, I could have it adjusted by a company that makes paintings and electrical installations. Why would I have to go to a dairy machine company?

Finally stevie, this car does not have the tag, but only an adhesive tag with the name of the construction company. If I'm not mistaken the tag is mandatory by law, so if I contacted the construction company, they wouldn't be obliged to provide it, even if it was sold years ago?

 

[stevie]

So if I were to be able to fix the machine by law, could I not certify myself? So I couldn't use it?

They told me that certification by third parties is not mandatory, and therefore that it would also have been possible to make me evaluate the interventions to be done for standardization, and then to provide adjustments. In this case, if for example only the electrical system should be adjusted, I could have it adjusted by a company that makes paintings and electrical installations. Why would I have to go to a dairy machine company?

Finally stevie, this car does not have the tag, but only an adhesive tag with the name of the construction company. If I'm not mistaken the tag is mandatory by law, so if I contacted the construction company, they wouldn't be obliged to provide it, even if it was sold years ago?

alone you cannot certify yourself, even because to be precise the certification does not only require the declaration of conformity, but also the manual of use and instructions and the technical file (signs of assembly and pieces constituting the machine, any technical calculations, etc.).
by remaking the electrical system at most you could have certification on the electrical system.
the manufacturer is not obliged to give you anything, he at the time of the sale of the product was in accordance with the regulations in force.
the roads are two:
- you fix it and secure it, but there's still a non-certified machine.
- rely on you or the manufacturer company, which overhauling and adapting it could give you the declaration of conformity, the manual and affor the tag or a company in the sector.
I didn't know if you bought this car or you already had it.
In the second case, you're having unnecessary problems.
the declaration of conformity is necessary for marketing, but if you already have it you will have to adapt it to the safety standards of the machinery directive in force in your field.
different is the case where you bought it used by some seller who in order to sell it should, at its expense, put it to rules.

 

[gerod]

the declaration of conformity must be signed by a manufacturer of that type of machinery and therefore competent in the field, and for all to have legal value, in the description of the activity carried out at the chamber of commerce must appear the "construction and maintenance of the type x of machines".
to understand if I build die casting plants would be senseless as well as out of order that I put myself to certify tri-formages rather than slicers or other.
in the case of a private clearly he cannot certify anything.
Whereas the certification also provides for the installation of the manufacturer's plate with the technical data of the machinery, I think it is necessary to address a manufacturer of machinery in the field.

It's absolutely not true.
I can be a breeder and build my machines and auto certify me.
There is no way that I should be enrolled in some category. we talk about manufacturer (it could also be the mandate, an unexperienced person of construction of machines).
I recommend that you give an eye to the directive! ! !
I have customers not machine builders (they do other) who have self-built machines attached iv with so much verification from on.
Hi.

 

[gerod]

So if I were to be able to fix the machine by law, could I not certify myself? So I couldn't use it?

if you make a change to a machine made by others (substantial change) automatically you are the manufacturer! So you have to follow the certification procedure under the Machinery Directive.

They told me that certification by third parties is not mandatory, and therefore that it would also have been possible to make me evaluate the interventions to be done for standardization, and then to provide adjustments. In this case, if for example only the electrical system should be adjusted, I could have it adjusted by a company that makes paintings and electrical installations. Why would I have to go to a dairy machine company?

They said right!
eye that adapting an electrical system does not mean making the machine compliant. The electrical system is a part!

Finally stevie, this car does not have the tag, but only an adhesive tag with the name of the construction company. If I'm not mistaken the tag is mandatory by law, so if I contacted the construction company, they wouldn't be obliged to provide it, even if it was sold years ago?

The machinery directive was adopted in 1996 (dpr 459).
all machines built before must not be adequate to the machine directive (it is not retroactive) but must be adequate to the current safety standards (see Legislative Decree 81/08).
Therefore, if built before, the manufacturer should not give you the marking there.
It is therefore required of the ddl (employer) to adapt the machines/equipments to the technical standards in force.
I hope it's clear.
There is no albo of builders. the manufacturer is defined in the Directive. study it! !

 

[Danlau]

So basically I can do a risk assessment myself, adjust it and secure it? Right?
My goal is to adapt it, not to make substantial changes. based on my very little experience, it should not require substantial changes.

Surely I will have to remake the electrical system from a company that certifies and add the protections.
In the meantime I downloaded Directive 2006/42, which I will read to understand better how to move.
at the same time I found on the internet two pdfs regarding the adjustment of machines without marking ce, and a pdf with guidelines to make a risk assessment.

kindly you could take a quick look at it, to know if they refer to the current legislation and if I can refer to them too, I would be grateful.
http:/www.ispesl.it/sitodts/software_attr.cosa fare.pdf
http://www.chconsulting.it/linee guida%2...ne ispesl.pdf
http://www.fe.infn.it/u/vito/hygiene e ...and richio.pdfps: the car was purchased by a friend who has the dairy, with the agreement that I would have made to adapt it.