informazione waterjet cut

[saralb]

Hello.

I'm just a member of the forum, I apologize a priori if I'm wrong.

I would have planned to start a small artisan company, introducing sheet metal processing, beginning with cutting of sheet metal and nopn only with waterjet cut system.

I collected information, but I didn't find much about the companies and costs of a plant.
Could someone give me some information?? :smile:

ah also express opinions if you think it is an activity that works, considering a priori the crisis that we all know.

Thank you:

 

[cmmlaser.it]

Good evening.

the waterjet is a machine that costs from 150,000 to 450.000 €, depends on the number of heads you want to use, the power of the pump and the size of the work area.
indicating the operating cost of a waterjet machine is 45 euros now, in this price are included consumables (focuser, sapphire nozzle, quarzite) and electricity (about 65 kw)
to these 45 € now you must add the cost of depreciation of the plant.

a good machine could be bystronic, bergamo technocut or flow.

a water jet machine cuts everything and quite well (it depends on the care of the operator) , however it is not a steel sheet machine as in comparison to the laser is 4-5 times slower .
www.cmmlaser.it

 

[Fulvio Romano]

I have often seen robotic waterjet cutting. I admit I have no experience of the cutting head, but of the robotic part yes.
I don't know how much a cutting head costs, but 150k€ for the whole plant... maybe something can be smoothed. Am I right?

 

[controllofiamma]

I would add that if it is not stainless steel, it tends to rust, and perhaps not well, that it is also 10 times slower than laser, (depending on thickness) and that at those costs already described there will be to add also the disposal of sand and the block to clean the deposit tank.
the advantage lies in the fact of cutting different materials, especially not ferrous with even very consireble thicknesses.
Hi.

 

[cmmlaser.it]

depends on the quality you want to achieve, resulting machines that get cutting tolerances close to the 5 centimeters and machines that do not arrive at the 5 tenths.

there are serious builders like those I mentioned but there are also companies that have failed after building no more than 3 plants and if you have a machine a failed manufacturer tries to sell it.

in the end if you want to look for handicraft or improvised economic machines you can find everything, sometimes it's fine but sometimes you get back the earnings of a life.

cmm.
www.cmmlaser.it

 

[Mr.Rio]

Hello.

I'm just a member of the forum, I apologize a priori if I'm wrong.

I would have planned to start a small artisan company, introducing sheet metal processing, beginning with cutting of sheet metal and nopn only with waterjet cut system.

I collected information, but I didn't find much about the companies and costs of a plant.
Could someone give me some information?? :smile:

ah also express opinions if you think it is an activity that works, considering a priori the crisis that we all know.

Thank you:

I would also consider plasma cutting, especially if you have to cut only metals: it has a good cost/productive ratio even if the definition of the cut is lower than that of the laser.
the waterjet is beautiful because it cuts everything, but it would scare me the treatment of water... I don't have the certainty but I know about it.
As for the possibility of work I wish you to take customers who do not suffer the crisis or to specialize and propose you in niche areas, but at the moment I do not see particularly sparkling niches.
greetings

 

[maver76]

hi I use the waterjet for 12 years, technocut brand (now part of the group cms)
I currently use a 5 last generation axes and make sure that in 12 years I cut everything. It is an innovative technology that opens various roads to those who want to make available a cutting service....plasm, oxide and similar are often advantageous economically but do not offer "decorous" finishes. ...especially they can't work aluminum copper and titanium......materials that are currently more in demand and higher value.

for the costs of purchase and above all maintenance you have to put your mind in peace and accept the expenses incurred during the course of the useful life of the machine: you must have a lot of care.

if you need more advice do not hesitate to contact me.

 

[saralb]

Thank you very much for your information and suggestions.

I agree with laser cutting is definitely better for steel and large thicknesses.

but my idea of leaving is to create a specific working air that meets the market as much as possible. my purpose is to offer a cutting service for all the materials currently most used in the field of metalmechanics, light carpentry and constructions, and then a bending/welding service.

is true ambitious, perhaps, but...

the laser cut I had at the moment discarded because I had heard that the plants are quite expensive.

Thanks again

 

[Lotus88]

Sarab

I have been operating in the waterjet since 1985, but on the other side of the barricade... over time, I have covered several roles, from the assistance to the technician.

in my curriculum there are definitely interesting times or collaborations with some "waterjet" companies cited by other members.

So I presume to speak to a minimum of "logging seen"... then, someone better you will always find it.. .

comparing waterjet cutting with a laser or plasma or a bone is conceptually wrong.

is not a competing but alternative system. I'll explain.

with a water jet, typically, not tempered glass cuts and some sintered.

For the rest... loads in the car and cuts. faster or slower, depending on the thickness but cut anyway.

I follow customers who only cut important thicknesses, in the 50-250mm window of 316l.
of course, on the same machine, with powers from 50-60hp.... I don't think there is a laser that can approach this performance or that a plasma or oxytaglio can offer the same degree of finish or "thermal altered zone".

Clear, if I have to cut a 3/6mm sheet a laser offers performance not reachable from a jet of water.


but in anticipation of a service activity a waterjet table is probably a sensible investment.

talking about the new, the market starts a bit lower (not much) than mentioned (3 axes, 3mt x 2mt, 1 cutting head....).

However also the world of the used can offer interesting situations, on revised machines, that a priori I would not exclude.

other consideration I would do and this:
How many lasers, oxygen, plasma find my potential customers within a radius of 50/100km?
How many "third-count" waterjets find in the same radius?

 

[Mike1967]

I join the availability of maver76 with which I share the same experience both in years and brand of water cutting and probably the same model of waterjet.
I really cut everything, metals and not metals.
after the punching machine was the purchase my company made and allowed us to expand our technical possibilities.
first for purely internal use, then to cut also for third parties.. .

 

[ironlomo]

ambitious as an idea but very interesting! I've been working in the industry for years now and if you want advice, start with a laser, if you have any money to spend, take a fiber.
you can cut thicknesses of up to 10 mm even 12 and 15 wanting, and with the fiber you can also cut "reflecting" materials like brass and copper! for light carpentry is fine!

I'd take the water jet with the job.
take into account then that his water jet is a quite problematic machine, in the circuit you always have acvqua and abrasive that often and willingly send in tilt the pumps and pipes for obvious reasons!

go laser and/or plasma!!!

 

[Mike1967]

ambitious as an idea but very interesting! I've been working in the industry for years now and if you want advice, start with a laser, if you have any money to spend, take a fiber.
you can cut thicknesses of up to 10 mm even 12 and 15 wanting, and with the fiber you can also cut "reflecting" materials like brass and copper! for light carpentry is fine!

I'd take the water jet with the job.
take into account then that his water jet is a quite problematic machine, in the circuit you always have acvqua and abrasive that often and willingly send in tilt the pumps and pipes for obvious reasons!

go laser and/or plasma!!!

abrasive and water come into contact with each other only in the last moments (tenths of seconds, perhaps less) so the problems exposed by you do not exist.
the pump (intensifier for accuracy) pushes the water towards the orifice that can vary from 0.15 to 0.5 mm at a pressure of about 3800 bars... I dare you to inlay such a plant (logically by doing the necessary maintenance)
the abrasive is "painted" towards the cutting heads with the pressure of the air and in 11 years of use has never stopped anything, I will be lucky.
on the other hand, it is extracted from the tank by a properly shaped chain that expels it into a special bag for recycling.
often cut thicknesses from 40-50 and 70 mm in ni300... With laser you dream of it.
for the record, in the company we also have a mazak of 2500 w with which we cut up to 20 mm in iron and 12 in stainless ac.

 

[ironlomo]

Maybe I felt bad, I didn't want to say that you have always in abrasive circle and water, I know perfectly that they come in contact in the last part of the circuit but from my experience I can tell you that having a bystronic there are always next, in addition to the consumables like nozzles and sapphires I have problems with the pump, with the cylinders with the check valves... really a disaster! !

Maybe the problem would be solved by taking a flow 6000!

 

[Mike1967]

Maybe I felt bad, I didn't want to say that you have always in abrasive circle and water, I know perfectly that they come in contact in the last part of the circuit but from my experience I can tell you that having a bystronic there are always next, in addition to the consumables like nozzles and sapphires I have problems with the pump, with the cylinders with the check valves... really a disaster! !

Maybe the problem would be solved by taking a flow 6000!

I think you have wrong brand:biggrin:, we have a technocut and the maintenance of the pumps (we have 2 from 60 cv each) we do it every 300-400 hours.
zafiri every 30-40 hours and wear inserts every 250-400 (depending on cutting types).
for the focusers we are around 100-120 hours.
It's already the second technocut machine, and apart from wear maintenance, we've never had any serious problems.
We have a 2000 x 4000... and the laser 1500 x 3000.
Hi. Come on. :smile:

 

[saralb]

Unfortunately, given the times, the project has undergone an arrest.
I had a partner, unfortunately now I'm alone.
I did not consider the laser system very well, because in the area there are already those who perform such work, so I would find myself, initially providing only such service, in strong concorence.

we will see if at the end of the year something moves.

 

[Marco Ecuador]

hello to all I am an Italian who lives in ecuador, I heard about cutting water from my customers "shipping maintenance". I would like to buy a 5-axis water-cutting machine for third-party work. I press that in ecuador the cnc machines and plants count on one hand, there is no one who can make them work. There are no problems finding work. I read in the forum the various experiences, someone would know how to recommend a good car? Are there machines used? What do you need to control for a safe use?
Thank you for your attention
Mar