machine on the market

[pollo]

Many manufacturers do not even know what the technical file is, exchange it or for the calculation report and for the processing cycles (I have also happened this). not that they are less important, but they are only one part.

Perhaps it would take an albo of the builders who are guarantor for the user (and I do not speak of the certification bodies/organisms, which are paid to issue the certificate). in Italy there were once the ensemble and the anccp that verified, as far as their competence, some fundamental aspects of the construction and installation of some equipment. then the functions have passed to the ispesl and in part to the axles (which by lack of organic and funds could not stand behind the work to do), then came the Community directives with the notified organisms and the user can not even see the calculation made to be sure that the machine is up or understand why the electric motor installed every 3 days burns (so the builders will always argue that it is the use that we do it, as a garage.
The machine directive suits me well (it feeds me), but I miss a verification/control service that makes the builders straight before commissioning. It is true, there is the withdrawal from the market for non-compliant machines, but in the meantime the damage is done, then to me they put under seizure the equipment and before to see me repaid (perhaps only for the current value of the machine) how much do I have to wait?

 

[gerod]

If you make an albo builders put too many stakes and the market would stop.
It would suffice more controls and it would be enough for the legislator to write the laws well.
I do not know if you have read the proposal of Legislative Decree of the new directive, but if you go to read article 18 you will understand that things are doubtful.
in practice Art. 18 confirms Article 11 of Legislative Decree 459/96 which is all to say; in fact we talk about previous regulations for machines, previous to the dpr or wing new d.lgs. You understand!
Hi.

 

[emadal]

Hi, I'm getting started with a technical file for the first time.
and I am following what is reported on the Machinery Directive 2006/42/ce
the problem is that not having a file of other machines to use as master, I can't understand if mine is complete.
Can you help me?

 

[pollo]

take each applicable point of the Annex i and demonstrate its conformity. possibly use technical standards. do not forget that x machines on the market until
29/12/09 you must respect the dpr
4.
Hi.

 

[emadal]

up there are,the point where I am stuck is the risk assessment,so how to choose the scale to assess it and find the residual risk to consider acceptable.

 

[gerod]

1. new users are required to show up!! ! !
2. Before you start, I suggest you read some good book about the machine directive. If you start from scratch, you put an eternity! the machine directive (ed. tne, blue book).

risk analysis was carried out according to en1050. now follow the en14121. There are no rules that say how to weigh the risk. I use the en1050 scheme.

If you want, I'll do the job.

 

[gerod]

take each applicable point of the Annex i and demonstrate its conformity. possibly use technical standards. do not forget that x machines on the market until
29/12/09 you must respect the dpr
4.
Hi.

I agree, but... There is an opinion of the European Commission saying that in the ddc you can declare a car in conformity with both 200/42/ce and 98/37/ce (which is like dpr459).

 

[emadal]

you are right gerod I apologize for lack of education.I am new to this forum and it is the first time I write,I am emanuele and I work on mechanical design.
the recommended book I am consulting it and it is really useful but I would need a master to follow for the file, do you know how to advise me where I could find something like this? ?

 

[pollo]

It's true, but up to
29/12 the
459 is an obligation. x risk analysis I also use other techniques.
And then I don't understand why the assignment should give it to you? we are also
;--)

 

[cm72]

as gerod said, there are some small things that are daily bread for engineers, while generally the manufacturer (maybe even good) does not even know that they exist.
For example, fatigue verification of a component, which is an essential safety requirement of the Annex i (Have you seen the casino that has made a broken axis for fatigue?): Industrial engineers usually know what it is, do check, see when it breaks and tell you the duration of the component itself, when to replace it (though yes, even steel expires) or at least every how much to look if it is okay....

It is already holy words!! ... and think that the evidence of the poor wholer was just the railway axles! really how many tragedies have yet to happen.... a simple problem of fatigue!

 

[gerod]

It's true, but up to
29/12 the
459 is an obligation. x risk analysis I also use other techniques.
And then I don't understand why the assignment should give it to you? we are also
;--)

I don't know if you've seen the bill of the new Legislative Decree. that transposes the machine directive ... the new art.18 says that Article 11 of the dpr459 remains!! !
the usual Italian things. I don't understand why they say that the dpr459 is repealed except... that they make a copy/paste! ! ! !

If you have not seen the bill then ... the job I take it!!!! :

 

[pollo]

the proposals of law have the same legal value of the directives not transposed: Nobody. You see, it's better to turn to me that I don't do him a useless job?

 

[gerod]

the bill came out before October 29th, the date on which d.lgs had to leave. that transposed 2006/42/ce. the machinery directive must be transposed by 29/12/2009. so if it is not received it is worth anyway, a little as it happened for bt and emc.
However, to those who now build the machines it is recommended that you realize the ftc according to the new (put that you flood the delivery and go further!).

do the job! I'll take my step forward, if anyone should take everything back!:biggrin:

 

[pollo]

jokes aside, I agree with you that now, given the times, agree to look to the new, even in anticipation of where the builder wants to sell. I normally deal with the directive when the machine becomes work equipment and in this sense I care about transposition. I like the idea of putting even sanctions x the builder, instead of purely theoretical ones deriving from the withdrawal from the market: Maybe it's the good time machines are done well.

 

[gerod]

we hope also because the data is disturbing: only 5% realizes safe machines, the rest thinks the ftc = manual. risk analysis? What's that? safety categories, pl, sil that robe will ever be? Bo!
Even in the rest of the time, things are not so much better. Just take a tour for companies and analyze the machines coming from germany, France, etc... you will find no macroscopic compliance!

We wait anxiously!
Hi.

 

[emadal]

So I understand from your speeches that I can never draw up the first technical file alone....right?

 

[gerod]

Well, there's always the first time.

actually the ftc consists of:

— from a general description of the machine,
— from an overall design of the machine and the control circuit diagrams, as well as the relevant descriptions and explanations necessary to understand the operation of the machine,
— detailed and complete drawings, possibly accompanied by calculation notes, test results, certificates, etc., which enable the verification of the conformity of the machine to the essential safety and safety requirements
health protection,— the documentation relating to the assessment of risks which must demonstrate the procedure followed, including:
(i) a list of essential safety and health requirements applicable to the machine,
(ii) protection measures implemented to eliminate identified hazards or to reduce risks and, where appropriate,
the indication of the remaining risks connected with the machine,
— the standards and other technical specifications applied, which indicate the essential safety and health protection requirements covered by these standards,
— from any technical report providing the results of the tests carried out by the manufacturer or by an organism chosen by the manufacturer or by his agent,
— from an exemplary of the machine instructions,— where appropriate, by the declaration of incorporation for almost-machines included and the relevant instructions
assembly,
— Where appropriate, a copy of the declaration of conformity of the machines or other products incorporated in the machine,— by a copy of the declaration of conformity;

those in bold definitely you know them do, you miss the part of analysis of the risks and the statement that is simple!
as you see it is not so difficult.

for risk analysis I usually do this:
- I verify the dangerous situations of the machine (dangers) according to the en14121-1
- I associate the dangers to the res (Annex 1 of the Directive) so as to comply with them

to start you could also take each res and say if it is octated and how you have octowed it.

Hi.

 

[emadal]

thanks gerod of the very exhaustive answer.