ntc 2008: documents that must accompany the carpenters in the yard

[Messerschmitt]

I wanted to have a confirmation.. .
when carpentry structures arrive at the construction site (e.g. welded ipe beams, built h beams and piolate), the director of the works must check that they are present:
- in the ddt: the registration number with which the processing center, which produced the carpentry, is recorded at the central technical service, in addition to the name or logo of the same center.
- a document with which the technical director of the plant certifies that the checks required by ntc 2008 on the carpentry in question have been carried out.

to issue the latter certificate the technical director of the processing center must have carried out at least 3 tests for each supply from a qualified external laboratory on heels taken from the processed material, to verify that the processing did not alter the characteristics of the basic material.
the director of the works, in addition to the certificate of execution of these tests made by the technical director, can ask to see also the results of these tests.

with supply means a group of carpenters of the same type, which have the same nominal dimensions. If, for example, I have 4 different types of beams built (different by section and length) then I have to consider them as distinct supplies and each will want its tests and its certificate of execution controls.Is it more or less correct as I wrote?

 

[rinato]

Hi, I repeat this discussion not to answer, but, possibly, to keep the answers together, since I would also like to ask a question about the "centres of transformation". and this seems to be the only open discussion about it.

necessary preamble: I work in a company "artigiana" and we have for a couple of years iso9001 for the process cert. (not product, because the big customers asked the first and anyway, being tertisti, it was sensible to do that ).
the other day a customer who realizes metal structures, and who has the ability to do practically everything in the house, submits the designs of some new elements in printed sheet metal. they are all "rognosis" pieces, even though they are not engineered since they still have clear errors of approach and fem checks were not concluded. as well as being at the limits of our productive capacities.

Anyway: a particular one of these, of which I cannot give that vague information for confidentiality clauses, has been designed by providing to use s355 mc sheet (microlegate ), which would be provided in c/work, complete with all certificates of the case.
for this piece, however, they would ask us to accredit us also as a "centre of transformation" ( di seguito cdt ). that we ask what it is, that is, if we should certify ourselves some dimensioning of the particular ( logical and legitimate question since of cdt it was the first time we heard talk). I answer no, because the calculations have to think about them, since then they put us on the assembly, "...being cdt costs a 150€ and just there is a technical director, i.e. a professional figure enrolled in the atbo (at the limit also a geometra enrolled at the albo) that stops "le cards". .we: "Okay... then we'll get better informed, but I don't think it's a drama... while we see the other pieces..." etc.

in separate place "rompo" to the professional who follows us with the iso9001, which after a couple of hours turns me the branch of a synthesis document for the cdts, where it explains that the cdts are:"... plant outside the factory and/or the yard...which receives from the steel manufacturer basic elements ... and packs structural elements directly employable in the yard, ready for commissioning or for subsequent processing.
...
cdts must be equipped with a processing control system in order to ensure that the processes carried out ensure the maintenance of the conformity of the mechanical and geometric characteristics of the products to these standards.
...
cdts are required to carry out checks to ensure the final product mechanical characteristics in accordance with the classification of the unworked original steels.
...
the technical director of the cdt must verify, through appropriate tests, that the bendings... do not alter the mechanical characteristics of the product.
etc."Now, apart from what it seems that the cdt should have or a test/collaudi room (or perhaps as reported by the opener can lean to a third test center etc.), and therefore the thing can not cost only 150€... how can one claim that a piece of bent sheet has the same mechanical and geometric characteristics of the starting coil?
to me, as a total ignorant, it must be said that the piece that asks me to realize, after the various branches and folds, must be replenished/distinct/normalized to recover the incrudiments, so a sample of sheet taken randomly on the piece can be behaved as if it were "virgin".
then: since I'm not the one who put the piece "in operation" but, at least the customer, when he mounts the structure in the yard, what sense did he ask me to be cdt when I can't be it for the very definition of cdt?
Our consultant recommends us to clearly decline the invitation and to the maximum to guarantee the only consistency of the production process, which is almost automatic since it would depend mainly on molds.
In short: does the customer want me to get a snare or is it a request not so unusual his?
I would decline, already the piece is at the limit of reasonable for cold molding, which then must certify that it is as if I had not even removed it from the pallet of the service center.. .

hoped I wasn't prolific and tedious, I wait confidently for reassuring answers.
Meanwhile, say hello, reborn.

We don't have a technical dir. . .

 

[gfrank]

in my opinion I fully fall into the cdt as "... provide the transformation of basic elements (structural) to be used in the yards... ".
In short, it is the certified chain, which starts from production to the implementation of structural elements
the accreditation procedure as cdt is to be done at the central technical service of the cslp, and on the site there are operating procedures for the accreditation (which is certified) within specific activities.
with regard to your doubts about the processing of the starting coil, there are various standards, transposed by the unit that, which regulate all processing activities (cold/cald, welding, etc.) and these standards are the basis of the certifications that serve for accreditation.
without such accreditation, in my opinion, you could not build/supply even a prison gate.
p.s. not working in the field of cdts, but working as dl, for which (often) I request the documentation referred to in the first post.

 

[gil]

I can't give you precise information, though:

could ask you the iso9001 qualification, of which you have.

could ask you the qualification of transformation center, getting it is neither easy nor fast. is only suitable for continuous, economically relevant jobs.

you might ask, and it may be necessary for cdt accreditation, also certification for bending and cutting sheet.

It's all done, who has these qualifications is not a genius. However it costs, in terms of time and money, we talk about an investment for a small company of a few thousand euros, minimum. the price rises easily, depending on your current state.

for a work sanctuary, I agree with your consultant.

 

[rinato]

I want first of all to thank both for the interest.

for now I have submitted the estimates of the pieces less rognosis (it is done to say ) and therefore did not request the cert. "cdt".
if the investment x the cdt was solo of a few thousand euros in "burocracy", one could also stand, but I suspect that the most important investment would be the honorary* of a technical dir. for a job that today appears little less than jumping. [ *che, per carità, potrebbe assolutamente valere tutti i soldi spesi ].

good to know, moreover, that the definition of the sun is a little too concise regarding what then must be done in the real world (... There are various rules, transposed by the unit which, which regulate all processing activities (cold/warm padding, welding, etc.) and these standards are the basis of the certifications used for accreditation ). If they return to office we will at least see these rules, to decide with a few more fixed points.

even if I remain of the opinion that if a piece can be printed and the raw mat gives me the customer, I do not have to/should invent anything, my process is repetitive playforce and when the piece always comes out as you have to certify there is nothing. at most I also make the scrap as proof that I used the mat. provided me. but it would be too simple.

Anyway, for the moment: greetings and thanks again.
Reborn.