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oleodynamic plant for 2 (4) lift platforms

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miki71ita

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Hello everyone, I introduce myself....I am a 19-year-old student of neophyte computer science in the oleodynamic field (in fact, I would say fast!!!), and new in this 'mitic' forum of experts. having found in my father's garage a blast engine and two pistons in good condition (practically never used!), I came to use them to operate 2 elevation platforms in my possession (which will soon become 4). Of course, my problem is, uh, the plumbing system, which components to buy containing as much as possible costs? (I'm a student with limited financial possibilities)... I guess it's fundamental, for proper operation of the plant, the size of the pump (will I have problems connecting it to the shaft of my engine? ...), and the choice of the various valves.

I attach explanatory images ( http://miki71ita.altervista.org/altervista/oleodinamico/index.htm )

I would like to obtain a velocity of piston advance (= rig lift) of about 10 - 15 cm/s. the platform, anchored to the ground, will have to lift the weight of a man added to a pile of 3-4 boxes of various material that will then be placed on shelves at different heights (the pistons in my possession should be able to manage this load without problems...!?!). there will always be two people, one on the platform, and the other that manually maneuver (of the lever valves would be perfect!) the lift and descent of the platform. If necessary I could evaluate the hypothesis of buying larger cylinders (but I would prefer not, to contain costs). Since the plant will be added at a later time two more cylinders, will I have to oversize the oil tank? . .
I hope I've been clear and detailed... thanks in advance to all those who will give me valuable advice and suggestions. (miki):finger:
 
1- I'm not an oleodynamic expert... but for what you want to do forget the blast engine.:eek::eek:

2- Do you know what security is? build according to the rules? people will go on the platforms and this is already a reason enough to pass to you or who will be responsible, serious trouble in case of accident. everything you can do... You have to see if the game is worth the candle. for how I see it go to who makes oleodynamics of trade and can give you certification


only for your info....with the data you wrote it is practically impossible to make a sizing, lack weights, ales, pressures.
 
Please miki do not write in case, in foruim is equivalent to screaming, then:

1) if you use the blast engine is not an oil plant
2) an oleodynamic plant is based on an electric pump that fishes from an oil case the oil itself and sends it under pressure in cylinders or pistons.
3) sends it in pressure along the tubes, and along the line/lines there will be all the instrumentation of the case.
4) the security problem remains as mauro pointed out, if you can follow his advice, go to someone who already does this job, if you just cannot and is one thing you want to do exclusively to learn is another speech.

If there is someone above those platforms and it hurts it's your business and only yours, it's good that you have clear this right away.
Hi.
 
ok, sorry for the capital!...but I would like to point out that the plant would have had a purpose mainly 'didactic' (to learn something about the complex world of oleodynamics), although I agree with the fact of safety (the pressures at stake are certainly high, and therefore potentially dangerous if you are mismanaged!). What about the blast engine, I'm sorry, but I don't really agree. Do you want to tell me that the system of this allego video isn't an oleodynamic? ? . ...
( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kftih-u6iiu&feature=fvw )... an oil plant can be manual, electrical, petrol/diesel burst, etc...
So if it's okay for you, we move the whole problem purely theoretically... .
with the engine in my possession and the two cylinders, is it possible to create a working hydraulic system to manage the movement of my pedane? (see detailed description given at the beginning of the discussion).... lovers of the 'brivido' and the fai da teodinamica do come forward... thanks to all those who want to intervene in the discussion! ! ! !
 
that it was for a "didactic" purpose you only said it now. I (as I think any other) interpreted that it was an automation that served for "work" and therefore we end up on the safety speech and not using a blast engine.
 
engine is a false problem.
there are hundreds of applications where the energy to operate the pump is provided by a blast engine, first of all vehicles for ground movement, many agricultural tractors and also almost all vehicles with aerial platforms or with crane arms (eg those for containers).
Moreover, many hydraulic drive lifts also have as an emergency engine a blast engine.

So, I repeat, that is absolutely not a problem.
and not the type of pump and how to connect it to the engine: just take what already exist for the above applications.

the discourse sizing, instead, is made more complex, as it should start from the basic data, that is platform size, maximum weight to lift and speed (media) of ascent/descent, then pass first to the calculation of the forces in play, to the sizing of the various building elements of the platform itself and then to the sizing of the cylinder.
done this you will know the pressure of the oil and the required flow rate for the drive.
then the definition of the type of plant, including the calculation of the relative loss of load induced by the length of the pipes and the various control organs (valves, distributors, filter, etc.) and therefore according to the results of all the above you choose the most suitable pump.

for the security problem the question of the pressures of the plant is the minimal part of the problem.
all components manufacturers usually certify their products by pressure classes that are 210, 350, 500 and also 700 bar.
therefore using components of good and safe origin (no "cineserie" anonymous, so much to understand) you have absolute safety. idem for the part of the plant to be realized: rigid and flexible pipes, fittings and any rotating joints are also provided with large sealing guarantees.
the only speech to be taken into account is that of the assembly procedures, first of all for the rigid tubes that will be cut, bent and connected with each other carefully following the technical norms of the manufacturer or the unifications of the sector.

As far as safety comes from the regulations on accident prevention, although not knowing the norms on lifting organs for people, it seems to me that the controls must necessarily be placed on the platform, to be operated by those who are above and not outside.
at the limit there may be an external drive system, but only for emergencies and therefore must be adequately protected by improper uses, for example through the closure in a framework put under key and with safety glass to break in case of emergency.
a particular case are the lifts, in which however the controls outside the cabin (the buttons on the various floors) have a priority lower than the same controls within the cabin and however (except for the emergency panel) are limited to the only functions of call and not of direct choice of the plan.
Finally, it also serves to provide some emergency stop system, which can go from the classic fungus to the same classic rope connected to a switch.
 
Thank you 'meccbell' for the many information you provide... After my visit to the retailer of hydraulic components, and considering the components already in my possession (''I would like to get a velocity' of piston advance (= platform elevation) of about 10 - 15 cm/s. the platform, anchored to the ground, will have to lift the weight of a man added to a pile of 3-4 boxes of various material that will then be placed on shelves at different heights (the pistons in my possession should be able to manage this load without problems...!?!'' ), I would be oriented towards a plant like this: 'see the links below indicated!'

these are the updated links: ( http://miki71ita.altervista.org/altervista/oleodinamico/index.htm ) - ( http://miki71ita.altervista.org/altervista/oleodinamico/schema.htm )
 
Since the price of the components indicated by my local retailer, starts from the 100 euros up, I would like to try to navigate a bit on the internet, hoping to find even more affordable prices (for me a saving of also 50 euros is important!...I am a student...). so if you have suggestions about retailers that maybe also practice online e-commerce, I'm waiting for your 'dritte'...thanks! (as regards the aspect of security I agree with your goals, but do not forget that my end in reality is more 'academic-knowledge-exploratory' than 'practical-usual'. I would like to see an oleodynamic plant working from me created, using sempic and inexpensive components. If security standards are not enough, I assure you I won't use it, but... 'I will look at it to work from afar'.... satisfied with my first working hydraulic system, but not safe on the level used! so if you prefer, we can move all the discussion on a purely theoretical plan....!!! Perhaps in the future my second plant (made with greater economic availability...) will comply with all the safety standards in force, and I will use it to friends and relatives!... thanks for the availability of all participants.
)
 
Excuse me, but I don't understand a passage of your reasoning, especially for a couple of reasons:

First of all, if you have to make a system for "didactic" purpose, I think that first of all you will have to start from a project that defines the quantities and characteristics of the various components necessary for its realization.
for now we have seen beautiful collages of photos taken from the internet and the equally cute schemes, but nothing more.
(by the way, in the scheme you posted, the filter goes before the pump and not on the return to the tank, because otherwise it does not filter a good thing and also creates counterpressions in the exhaust circuit and also on the placement of the valve maximum pressure I would have doubts, but we say that it can also go well so)

I say this because I was in you before I even thought about the cost I would put to calculate the plant well.
Of course the cost is not to be neglected, but the technical specifications are those that also serve to define the costs of a project.

therefore, it will be also a "didactic" plant but precisely for this is not that you can do it to the appendix of dog.

and we come to the second aspect which seems unclear:
I have written deliberately and repeatedly "didactic" between quotes because, but perhaps I was wrong to understand, I thought everything was part of or a school exercise, or of your own, meritorious, personal initiative to make you an oleodynamic culture.
then instead comes out this story of looking for the supplier that can save as much as possible, since "(for me a saving of 50 euros is important!...I am a student...)" and then conclude the post with the phrase "May in the future my second plant (made with greater economic availability...) will comply with all the safety standards in force, and I will use it to friends and relatives!..."but are we talking about simple teaching or a real economic activity of building hydraulic elevators?
Sorry about the frankness, but here we like to be clear and distinguish who asks for help to learn and who does it to earn, albeit completely legitimate.

have fun:
 
Let's pretend it's for educational purposes: invest 50 euros in a good text on lifts people and things, as well as downloading from the internet (this is free) all the laws of the sector. and of course study them: you will immediately see that there are limits to what you can do with 50/100 euros.
then as meccbell says, define exactly what you want, i.e. created the specific technique: Only then can you determine what you need in terms of components. You talk about three boxes, but how much do they weigh? How much do you think a person weighs? What height do you have to get? Do you have one plan or more floors? etc.
then, if you only look at it working but there's no one going up, then do it with the lego, otherwise they are really bitter (even if you send us on friends or mother-in-law): respects the essential safety requirements of the machine directive (d.lgs.17/2010) and you will see that in part the machine comes out on your own.
Hi.
 
I thought I explained very clearly from my first message (see discussion start).... but apparently I was wrong. . . !
It is therefore appropriate to clarify some points well... .

1 - I am a 19-year-old student in computer science, not a technician designing oleodynamic plants.
2 - I found in my father's garage a burst engine and two cylinders (see here the features: http://miki71ita.altervista.org/altervista/oleodinamico/indexx.htm ), and I had thought of using them to move two platforms (already already 'of a small hydraulic pedal system) that I possess but I never used.
3 - the help I hoped to find in this forum was precisely related to the size of the components that I do not possess and should buy paying attention to the maximum containment of the costs (more' the plant is simple, less the costs).
4 - about security... Let's cut the bull's head... I assure you that the plant will never be used by a human being, so you will never see my aunt or an antipatic cousin gravitate around the earth, shot in space by my platform.
5 - why then invest time and resources (modeste!) to realize the plant? ... simple... The potential of the oil sector fascinates me a lot, and I have a great desire to ssppeerriimmeennttaarree... from what comes what... maybe a day (very far!) you will enter a voice-controlled elevator designed by me. . . !
6 - I absolutely do not hide any end of profit or future commercial activity' (I assure you that I prefer the oil of fries, to the hydraulic one)

do you help me or not with direct and concrete advice to realize my purely experimental plant? Or do we continue to 'filosofeggiare' on the origins of man... before the 'oleopneumatic cylinder'? ? ? . . .

direct and concrete short questions...e.g. :

d - 'how much is the maximum load that the platform must handle? '
r - 'one person (100kg...but we subscribe...200kg!) and material boxes (other than 100kg.. 200kg!)'

d - 'when the maximum excursion of the platform? '
r - 'the race of the pistons that I possess is more than enough to my experimentation: 40cm that add up to 40 of the cylinder, raise the platform to about 80cm from the ground'

d - 'the position of the filter in the scheme is not correct!'
r - 'I thought they needed two filters, one inside the oil tank, on the sucking vent of the pump, and one instead on the return mouth of the reservoir to clean the greater impurities' collected from the oil inside the plant'

look at the 'disegnini' I have previously attached, you will find a lot of practical information for the correct size of the components of my experimental plant and experimental underline! ! !
I know that none of you designers will ever use a plant like what I have speculated, because senseless, dangerous, and perhaps contrary to all the rules in force... but mine is not a project to certify and sell to a customer, but it is a pure amateur experimentation (in fact... my first trial! I mean, you know it or not. It's like "the first kiss given to a girl"... it doesn't have to be perfect... because it's equally exciting and definitely unforgettable! ! ! )
I remain waiting for your advice and suggestions, to arrive (before!) to shout... move!!!!! Thank you.
 
http://web.tiscali.it/vanni_38/impianti4.htmtyping on gog "olydynamic plant file" the first result is this, you will notice that you start from the bottom and you go towards always + complex plants, maybe with some error but made well basic.
you will also notice that in the second figure of section b there is a unidirectional valve or a non-return, which is not present in your scheme you posted and that (in my opinion) can never fail.
as can not miss the rapid triggers, but also in the patterns posted by me it seems that they lack.
but we are probably going too far in the sophisticated......
Hi.
 
http://dimeca.unica.it/~puddu/oleodinamica/slide1_09.pdfalways on gog is this, which besides giving you basic information has a list of the symbolism at the bottom.
If you want to give your "first kiss" (that poetic expression) I recommend:
1) record the specific technique with All your project data
1) draws with a cad any pattern of the plant you have in mind
2) post it here, don't worry if there are errors (they will certainly be there) then the forum will comment.
3) set the maximum scheme you will compare it with the specific technique and you will apply the formulas according to your project data weight, stroke etc.
4) put the results of the sizing and these will be commented
5) according to them the scheme will be modified, improved, integrated according to cases
6) you create your shopping list (and will be money pains) and build everything
7) Always remember that even the plant + fig of the world if built badly is a gross
This is the hypothetical line you should follow, if I had someone who knows a bit would not be bad at all.
and no one has to go up now or everHi, wait for a ride on your voice-controlled elevator
 
miki71ita said:
I thought I explained very clearly from my first message (see discussion start).... but apparently I was wrong. . . !
It is therefore appropriate to clarify some points well... .

1 - I am a 19-year-old student in computer science, not a technician designing oleodynamic plants.
2 - I found in my father's garage a burst engine and two cylinders (see here the features: http://miki71ita.altervista.org/altervista/oleodinamico/indexx.htm ), and I had thought of using them to move two platforms (already already 'of a small hydraulic pedal system) that I possess but I never used.
3 - the help I hoped to find in this forum was precisely related to the size of the components that I do not possess and should buy paying attention to the maximum containment of the costs (more' the plant is simple, less the costs).
4 - about security... Let's cut the bull's head... I assure you that the plant will never be used by a human being, so you will never see my aunt or an antipatic cousin gravitate around the earth, shot in space by my platform.
5 - why then invest time and resources (modeste!) to realize the plant? ... simple... The potential of the oil sector fascinates me a lot, and I have a great desire to ssppeerriimmeennttaarree... from what comes what... maybe a day (very far!) you will enter a voice-controlled elevator designed by me. . . !
6 - I absolutely do not hide any end of profit or future commercial activity' (I assure you that I prefer the oil of fries, to the hydraulic one)

do you help me or not with direct and concrete advice to realize my purely experimental plant? Or do we continue to 'filosofeggiare' on the origins of man... before the 'oleopneumatic cylinder'? ? ? . . .

direct and concrete short questions...e.g. :

d - 'how much is the maximum load that the platform must handle? '
r - 'one person (100kg...but we subscribe...200kg!) and material boxes (other than 100kg.. 200kg!)'

d - 'when the maximum excursion of the platform? '
r - 'the race of the pistons that I possess is more than enough to my experimentation: 40cm that add up to 40 of the cylinder, raise the platform to about 80cm from the ground'

d - 'the position of the filter in the scheme is not correct!'
r - 'I thought they needed two filters, one inside the oil tank, on the sucking vent of the pump, and one instead on the return mouth of the reservoir to clean the greater impurities' collected from the oil inside the plant'

look at the 'disegnini' I have previously attached, you will find a lot of practical information for the correct size of the components of my experimental plant and experimental underline! ! !
I know that none of you designers will ever use a plant like what I have speculated, because senseless, dangerous, and perhaps contrary to all the rules in force... but mine is not a project to certify and sell to a customer, but it is a pure amateur experimentation (in fact... my first trial! I mean, you know it or not. It's like "the first kiss given to a girl"... it doesn't have to be perfect... because it's equally exciting and definitely unforgettable! ! ! )
I remain waiting for your advice and suggestions, to arrive (before!) to shout... move!!!!! Thank you.
Click to expand...
This kid's arrogance and rudeness leave me speechless.
 
I thank infinitely 'number1' for the 'concreteness' and richness of its answers....ne I will' treasure! !
But in the light of the general progress of the discussion I have initiated, I have come to a decision. . .
I understand that for you 'technicians' industry experts all my project make smile, indeed.... laugh! I realized that from the beginning of the discussion it has been pointed out and it continues to point continuously the finger on the mechanical aspect of my project, instead to me that does not affect much, but the fault is only mine, since I should have made you understand immediately that my greater interest was on the hydraulic aspect (oleodynamic), in fact I should not have told you of the two lifting platforms, but only of the handling of the two cylinders with the simple state !
I am sincere, given my very little notions on the subject, I had no idea that on the mechanical aspect there were so many variables ( = problems to evaluate, calculate and solve) in play.... for me two platforms that stand up and down were more or less a bit of iron pieces connected together and well oiled... Don't smoke me for that!
I therefore think I have wrong forum, but in good faith!... and I apologize for the time I have stolen from projects certainly much more important and 'concrete'!
If one day my luggage of information on mechanical-oleodynamics will be so rich to allow me to speak 'your own language', I promise you I will make it back' alive, perhaps with a real concrete and operational project. for now I think I'm not up to your reasoning and evaluations, so I prefer to get into the infinite and deep sea of the net. wishing you a good job and thanking you for your availability, I offer you my most cordial greetings. (p.s. a special greeting to 'numero1' (not horrify, but you know that I found a channel of very affordable Chinese oil components (=quality' of materials definitely very poor), but that I intend to use for my first 'amateur-explorative experiences'! I would love to stay in private contact with you, maybe to clarify some ideas or just for your precious advice!!!). for those who want to send me some emails again in private: miki71ita@email.it). Mine is not a farewell, but only a goodbye, and thanks again for the constructive stimuli you gave me! ! ! [Miki]
 

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