ot? c, book use and maintenance: in which language?

[reggio]

hello to all, I hope not to be too ot and to find answer.

the argument is the book of use and maintenance c requiring the norm of machines, the question is in which language it wants drafted.

reading the legislation I see:"Every machine must be accompanied by instructions for use in or in the official Community languages of the Member State in which the machine is placed on the market and/or put into service. "now, my car sells it on the market [ITALIA], while my client will sell it and install it in [FRANCIA]: asks me the booklet in Italian, but also in French: what am I required to give it?

that is, how does that "on the market translate into practice and/or put into service?

 

[Fulvio Romano]

I'll tell you mine.
the machine regulation says that the "manufacturer or its agent" is the one who puts the machine on the market.
so you are the manufacturer for your dealer, so do the "original instructions" in Italian. the dealer will translate and issue the "translation of the original instructions" in French.

attention must be paid to the fact that letters in uppercase between quotes must be given on the first page of the manual, as prescribed by the directive.

see also d.lgs 17/2010, par. 1.7.4:

1.7.4. instructions
each machine must be accompanied by instructions for use in or in Community languages
Officials of the Member State in which the machine is placed on the market and/or put into service.
the instructions that accompany the machine must be "original instructions" or a
"translation of the original instructions"; In this case, a copy of the translation must be attached
original instructions.
Notwithstanding the above, maintenance instructions for use by a staff
specialized in charge of the manufacturer or its representative may be provided in one language
Community including staff.

 

[pollo]

The manufacturer is the one who signs the declaration of conformity that is delivered together with the machine, so it is his duty to respect the directive.

 

[reggio]

"original instructions" in Italian. the dealer will translate and issue the "translation of the original instructions" in French.

attention that the letters in uppercase between quotes must be given on the first page of the manual

thanks for the precious clarification.

The manufacturer is the one who signs the declaration of conformity that is delivered together with the machine, so it is his duty to respect the directive.

hi, I did not understand what you meant precisely with your intervention, can you clarify? . . .

other question: what to answer customers who require copy of the manual in editable electronic form? I imagine as the customer wants to rewrite it and deliver it with its own brand.. .
if so far we have provided it without problems together with the copy in pdf,
Now I am doubtful that it is not the case of giving only pdf, .... or not?

 

[Dade73]

I interfere in the very interesting discussion.
In my opinion, the language in which the documentation is to be prepared is based on the country on which I am going to issue an invoice of that machine. in this case italia. if a dealer or supplement of this machine sells it abroad will be charged to the translation of the manual. (think if then from the france sell in turn the car in spagna . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

 

[Fulvio Romano]

The manufacturer is the one who signs the declaration of conformity that is delivered together with the machine, so it is his duty to respect the directive.

It is not that who signs become builder, it is the builder who has to sign. the manufacturer, regardless of who signs the statement, is the one identified by the Machinery Directive.

to understand, if I build a car and sell it, and I sign the statement to my underage son with residence to the caymans, the builder I remain, with the aggravating of having issued a document signed by the wrong person, with dolo or guilt will decide the magistrate.

other question: what to answer customers who require copy of the manual in editable electronic form? I imagine as the customer wants to rewrite it and deliver it with its own brand.. .
if so far we have provided it without problems together with the copy in pdf,
Now I am doubtful that it is not the case of giving only pdf, .... or not?

if the customer is the user of the machine, I would send only the pdf. it makes no sense to have a editable format.

if you know that your customer is actually a dealer and has the sincere need (in fact, comfort) to have a editable format, and you have nothing to reverse sending it, I would send a pdf with a transmittal, and then informally the editable format. the "transmittal" is the equivalent of the "bolla" (transmittal document) for the goods sent physically, and describes the content of the shipment. if countersigned guarantees you on the shipped material, and therefore if it is incorrectly modified, the error is not attributable to you.

I don't know if I understand. .

If there's nothing in the contract, you're not obliged to send editable stuff.

 

[gerod]

quoto fulvio.

attention must be paid to the fact that letters in uppercase between quotes must be given on the first page of the manual, as prescribed by the directive.

is not said to be on the first page, the important thing is that it is written.
if you give the translation remember to give also the original (the guidelines say so).

on who has to do what depends on the contract. if I sell in Italy I sell with the manual in Italian. But if you tell me to translate it, I'll translate it.
If I sell it to one who then sells it in france then I do in Italian and he in france. I am the manufacturer, he will be the through and will have to adapt the machine, both for the manual.

 

[mgdi]

Bye to all,
I welcome this discussion a little awaited for 3 questions to which I do not find clear and exhaustive answers and I would like to speak.

1) Manual language use and maintenance: the company for which I work sells a machinery to a foreign representative (German index) who in turn will sell the machinery but do not know where (ce and not). if I provide the manual in my client's language, i.e. the dealer is ok. if on the specific sales contract instead that the manual will be delivered in a different language (we say English) are protected under the law and by requests of my client (the retailer) to provide it in his language? normally the dealer accepts a different language or because the car goes out there or because he doesn't even know where it will end

2) manual support. if I do not issue the manual must be "easyly consultable" so it takes on paper, leaving it for me could be more easily consultable by the smartphone that the operator could have in my pocket. can you reasonably assume that it is easily consultable in digital format and then deliver only that?3) ...always to economize on paper... :smile: and directly linked to the previous question. would it be possible to deliver on paper a quick guide and only in digital format the complete manual?I hope in your opinions and advice......
Thank you.
Hi.

 

[gerod]

1)You sell the machine in a country and you have to provide the manual in the target language. if then someone, at contract, asks you other languages you do it (if you sign the contract!). It is obvious that if you sell it in German and want it in English, I would say that the directive (cogent) tells you that it must be translated into the target language but it may be that they ask you in English because everyone knows English. If so I think that however the target language is German and therefore English + German makes you feel quiet

2) the directive does not say in what format but the paper is good for the workshops (the mechanic with the unted hands does not use the mobile phone!). so you need to hear the final customer.

3) applies to the said in 2

Hi.

 

[mgdi]

thanks gerod, very fast answer all clear but I dilute on a specific situation (already happened)

1) the dealer (German) orders me the machine with manual in English because he knows it will serve so. for me to do the manual in English or German is equal 1 manual, 1 time, 1 cost. his client has a problem, usually adjustments (easy because the manual has not read it or, let me vent it, he has no idea what it is doing and/or does not understand a tube (unfortunately it is often so, but by contrast I put that sometimes the manual is not exhaustive or clear!!!)). the German dealer asks me the manual in German because he wants to understand better, then become 2 manuals, 2 times, 2 costs. If you asked me the English manual I can answer (and be protected) you wanted it so "arranged"? or should I say a priori, are you German?
ok that there must be collaboration but it is always unique!!!! the second manual you can't make it pay if it's not an extra cost, if you don't deliver it in the order language you don't pass the order, if you don't give it in the second line the second language you don't cooperate with customer satisfaction...... .

2) ok are more or less my conclusions but I do not find professional to ask the customer "how do you want the manual?" and then you are always exposed to the above also for the format: If it's digital because it's not paper if it's paper because you didn't send me the digital one for storage... then we buy a marked printer that the manual has it on the inside sd, they didn't ask me how I wanted it and they can't know if when I use the printer on my hands I don't have a well spread fat tin! ! !

:biggrin: Today I am polemical, of course it is not addressed to anyone especially to none of the forum visitors (unless it is not my client!!!! :biggrin: ) and I do not want to be misunderstood as a polemic against the answers received! ! ! ! ! !
above all the "German dealer" is for exemplary purposes and there is no reference to people, things, situations really existing or if they existed would only be a pure coincidence unintended:biggrin:

Thanks again

 

[gerod]

read the guidelines of the Directive in the part relating to the instructions. you find everything
then always worth the contract! and also customer satisfaction but we can not always let everything pass because the customer is the customer. I understand you! !