passion or salary?

[Angela89]

Good morning to all,
I have already presented myself, hopefully in the appropriate session. I have 29 years and from about 2 work in a company that produces 3d printers and its components. I do not find myself so well and sincerely I would like to change area for various reasons, first of all the poor possibility of professional growth and the poor chance to make career. I have two possibilities.

* company that designs and manufactures screw and piston compressors. the job is of technical employee, but I would enter to take care mainly of the aspect of management of the products (plm, distinct base, management of the documentation, management of the modifications for non-conformity, management of stocks).. therefore a managerial role. the salary is 37000 euros.the company is about 200 people.
* company that deals with design/construction of special lifting equipment (oleodynamics mainly). I would first take care of design in perspective to get to the role of project manager.from what I understood for "project manager" intend to manage the contract and electromechanical design of the same, in practice both management and technical aspects. sincerely the role I like much more but the salary is lower (about 25000 euros). the company is small and family run (about 30 people).

I would, however, start from 0 because I have no specific experience in both sectors and the thing worries me a little but I care both from the point of view of "product". I'm even more concerned about the fact that I don't know much about the kind of work I would do in the first case, but I think I know a little "filled". and I would not like to be a static role, where you are born and die there, without any chance of improving. In the second case, however, I would perhaps sacrifice a little present for the future, but they are only opinions. I don't know many companies, only mine can be said.

What do you say? Is it crazy to give up a more attractive offer economically for another who is more passionate? According to you is so "poor technically" the first type of employment to justify a waiver under these contractual conditions?

I spoke to former university friends and for the overwhelming they told me that passion does not pay, especially in Italy... but I would not start polemics. .

a heard thanks to those who will reply

 

[cacciatorino]

I'm sorry, but 25,000 and 37,000 what would be like 13 net monthly?

 

[Stan9411]

if you go to the company that gives you so much, but you don’t really like the job, after two months you quit and have signed a rich contract you do little. is always the usual question of the short blanket. I would go to the company where I do what I like. I would expect to have entered the mechanisms well and become productive and, if it seems to me the case, according to the advantages I bring to the company, I would ask for the increase. for greater reason that it is a small reality and you can usually agree more easily, especially if it proves to be a resource that they need

 

[MassiVonWeizen]

I always remain alibied when I read figures like 37000€, but also 25000 are not few, given to a person who has no knowledge for the role in which it is assumed.

make a list of pros and cons and then make a comparison between the highlights of the two jobs giving a level of importance to everyone; do this you have a general picture that can be clarified and in case it wasn't allowed you to do a reasoned and not just emotional disamina of the situation.
How much money counts? How much do you take now and how do you get to the end of the month?
How much does the time you spend at work including the return journey?
if you do project manager have managerial skills? do you have the character in a discussion with the superiors? Can you motivate people?
And so... .
even if you have doubts about your job, call the companies and let them explain well, maybe you're willing to make a day of visit flanked to see what processes you're going to handle.

 

[Angela89]

I'm sorry, but 25,000 and 37,000 what would be like 13 net monthly?

about 1450 for the first and 2000 for the second

I always remain alibied when I read figures like 37000€, but also 25000 are not few, given to a person who has no knowledge for the role in which it is assumed.

I also made the point, to avoid creating false expectations. but they told me that little interested him the specific technical side because I would still have a way to learn and for them counts much more the soft skill and behavioral aspect, which is in line with their needs. What are you doing? automotive-packaging? at least here in the area in the field oil & gas,biomass,turboamcchine etc.. These are the salaries. At least comparing me with former university students.

if you do project manager have managerial skills?

I also made this present. but they have explained to me that from them the project managers are of the bosses committed, to what I understand or they mean in this way: not the classic designer who closes in ut but also interfaces with suppliers,visits to customers and manages his work independently programming and respecting the timing, without choking directives. But I'd come after a long time, which is a point of arrival.

 

[Angela89]

if you go to the company that gives you so much, but you don’t really like the job, after two months you quit and have signed a rich contract you do little. is always the usual question of the short blanket. I would go to the company where I do what I like. I would expect to have entered the mechanisms well and become productive and, if it seems to me the case, according to the advantages I bring to the company, I would ask for the increase. for greater reason that it is a small reality and you can usually agree more easily, especially if it proves to be a resource that they need

I share in full, the problem is that there are those who have been working for 5-6 years in ut and in terms of experience it is much more than me who takes less than me and has not had sensitive increases, while following passion. But who's screwed up and thought only about money seems to have gone better. That's why I asked myself a few questions. but normal is probably becoming abnormal, what you want me to tell you. Obviously these are just impressions, there is no precise rule. But in principle I agree, long the passion rewards. At least do something you like to do and it's like you don't work!

 

[MassiVonWeizen]

choosing passion or money is exclusively a personal choice that follows your character, and both are correct. that you agree with stan you already have the answer to your initial question

 

[MassiVonWeizen]

just to satisfy your, legitimate, curiosity I am a technical designer for 15 years in the predominantly steel industry, but I also made precision mechanics and production development. 7 years as a lathe, my school title.

 

[cacciatorino]

I share in full, the problem is that there are those who have been working for 5-6 years in ut and in terms of experience it is much more than me who takes less than me and has not had sensitive increases, while following passion. But who's screwed up and thought only about money seems to have gone better. That's why I asked myself a few questions. but normal is probably becoming abnormal, what you want me to tell you. Obviously these are just impressions, there is no precise rule. But in principle I agree, long the passion rewards. At least do something you like to do and it's like you don't work!

as he said @massivonweizen We should understand how to indulge our character. all choices can be satisfactory, in agreement with the objectives we have. who has the goal of having the villa and the suv will choose the business/financial career, who finds satisfaction in creating something from scratch and make it work will choose the technical career. We just have to hope that the choice we make today is not penalizing when in twenty years we will look at the world with other eyes.

As for the stipendo, 1450 for a two-year-old internment, I think it's on the average, even if perhaps parametrated at the cost of Northern Italy's life may not be great. It is presumed that in the future role of project manager you will earn more sensibly.

One thing you should think about is that the role of project manager is very stressful because basically there are no dates and times, except the date of testing the plant. This could be a problem when you might have children in the future.

 

[Stan9411]

I read now the figures net ... 2000€ per month cleaned for a new-assuming without experience!! and given the size of the company I bet that there is also the canteen included. and given the job, the company phone is running.

*was I'm gonna end up harassing*

net of personal inclinations (I wouldn't spend a career filling tables even if they threatened me with a gun) I always remember that you work to live and you don't live to work....... trai your conclusions

 

[Angela89]

I read now the figures net ... 2000€ per month cleaned for a new-assuming without experience!! and given the size of the company I bet that there is also the canteen included. and given the job, the company phone is running.

You caught in the sign. But sincerely I think it is more abnormal, in a serious company of the metalworking industry, to pay a neo-assum as a caregiver or a bartender than this (I know why I did that too). It would have to be so everywhere. Unfortunately I repeat to you, in this beautiful country normal has become abnormal. Moreover the very technical roles are extra-subpaid. where I am now taking r&d but it was better to do my doctorate at university. as net time I took a lot more: one thing is 15000 euros and is required to 'work' 3 hours a day, one thing is to take 20000 discards and work 10 hours on average, excluding Saturday mornings given. I tell you, incitely, with all the passion of the world, if I take a hunger salary, less than I perceive, I would prefer to work in a cosmetic shop in the boulevard under the house and enjoy the evening without too many problems "of the day after in ut". and if you have arrived at this it is also the fault of many people who sell this profession and do the race to the down.

 

[MassiVonWeizen]

salaries are defined by the national contract on the basis of the professional figure and the level it covers. You don't want to take as much as you give him to the owner that if he takes you with the good moon you take 2500€ and do the times you want and offers you a trip prizes per quarter, but if you find that he has risen badly you from 800€, you have to work 12 hours a day, you are timed and before leaving you have to tell him also thanks Badrone.

But then why are you crying the dead? from your speech you have already decided what to do and take figures at all bad even in the worst case

Moreover the very technical roles are extra-subpaid

Excuse me, but how old are you working to say something like that? How many technical working environments have you lived? What does it mean to you very technical role?
I think you're taking the longest step of your leg...

 

[paulpaul]

I share in full, the problem is that there are those who have been working for 5-6 years in ut and in terms of experience it is much more than me who takes less than me and has not had sensitive increases, while following passion. But who's screwed up and thought only about money seems to have gone better.

from what I could see in a fifteen years of experience, much depends on the sector: in the field of packaging and filling the role of the technician seems to me a little bit defiled. on the contrary, in the field of energy and oil & gas (turbines, compressors. motors, etc.), plays a much more central role, and also the managerial and commercial figures, although not planning, can absolutely not ignore the employment of technical aspects, even in a very detailed way.

a small note: for me the plm part and diba management is an absolutely technical and non-management role. depends on what we mean by “technical” role at this point?

 

[Stan9411]

@massivonweizen find me a worker who carries out “manual activities for which no competence is required”, which takes at least 1310 € per month and I go to work instead of him.
1300€ takes them on average a designer/designer of components, after making an apprentice (if not more) 500€ per month. .

 

[Angela89]

salaries are defined by the national contract on the basis of the professional figure and the level it covers. You don't want to take as much as you give him to the owner that if he takes you with the good moon you take 2500€ and do the times you want and offers you a trip prizes per quarter, but if you find that he has risen badly you from 800€, you have to work 12 hours a day, you are timed and before leaving you have to tell him also thanks Badrone.

You're right, I'm correct, the problem is that we're a people of slaves who accept everything, as long as you're okay in your own orticello, for example for 5 cents more on the gasoline, they've unleashed a putiferio. changes the content of the message but reality will never change unfortunately.

Excuse me, but how old are you working to say something like that? How many technical working environments have you lived? What does it mean to you very technical role?
I think you're taking the longest step of your leg...

There is no need to stay 50 years to work to understand that you are underpaid,just look at statistics, Italian researchers who emigrate, discussions on the forums, night news, answers of those who tell me that 35 thousand euros for a new graduate is too much and I do not care to go ahead...but I assure you that I could. because it is my opinion, no one has his, no universal axiom (
tant is that, as you said, I have excellent proposals) and being an opinion is not different from that according to which 30000 euros or 35000 are too many for a neo-assum.

a small note: for me the plm part and diba management is an absolutely technical and non-management role. depends on what we mean by “technical” role at this point?

I am not very experienced in the matter. as a technician I meant that there is little from the calculation point of view I imagine, in my company there were similar figures but they were almost amminsitratives, they filled tables (as stan said) and excel sheets from morning to evening with codes and anagraphics.everyone so cared about the writing of some manuals but rarely and we do not see much of stimulant in this, but there is definitely It can be very dependent on the industry in which it operates. :

However I thank you for sharing your opinions and wish you a good evening ^_^

 

[MassiVonWeizen]

You know they're gross?
a first category that takes 1300€ will take home about 1000€.

 

[Stan9411]

ah fuck, then now that there is to be happy!! Let me take another look: fifth level, 1792€ .... net will be 1300... means that the law authorizes the employer to pay 1300 € an employee who, and quote text, has the following characteristics: “The fifth category includes workers who carry out, with greater executive autonomy and with the contribution of particular and personal competence operations on complex apparatuses or equipment, which presuppose knowledge of the specific technology of the work and operation of the apparatuses themselves and which guide and control with adequate technical-practice competence a group of other workers, exercising a certain power of initiative for the conduct and results of the work”.
....
now I feel protected by ccnl

 

[MassiVonWeizen]

the discourse of the france is a little more complex than the 5 cents that is reported by the newspapers and anyway, as all, the revolutions if long go can bring advantages (not all the somo revolutions winning) at the beginning always affects the weakest.

you do not need to stay 50 years working to understand that you are underpagat

is what would be the honest price for a newborn person who has no experience in that particular job? I'm curious. without polemic and only for the love of discussion

fifth level, 1792€ .... net will be 1300.

I'm really more, not much but I'd be around 1450.
If instead those 1300s were net would you really go to work in the foundry to spread melting loam or in a weld department molaring strings all day?

Let us clarify that I am not saying that salaries are just, nor meritocratic. It may seem, but I assure you it is not so. I'm saying that salaries minim, are managed by the national contract.
Surely if the general level of 3/400€ net would be all better, the economy would turn cheerfully and so on saying... or maybe it would be enough not to have an exaggerated tax.

 

[paulpaul]

But I am curious at this point of knowing these figures, in your company or other what they do specifically.

dibas are one of the fundamental outputs of the use (derived by calculations, drawings, technical specifications, etc.), and I could not think of their management outside of ut: it must be ut to say what should be mounted on the machine, respecting at the same time the cost constraints and delivery times. If necessary, other departments (purchases and production mainly) will signal specific criticalities of certain codes (excessive delivery times for example) and possibly propose alternatives, which however must always be approved by ut.