regulations for independent heating

[bagaroz]

Good evening,
I am new to this forum, generally bazzico on that of mechanics, I hope to have guessed the right section.
dress in an old condominium, with central heating, gas cylinders on the balcony for the kitchen and electric water heater.
In the last condo meeting, we discussed the possibility of doing some modernization work. the idea was to switch to independent heating, using the boiler also for home water and to connect the kitchen to the methane gas.
the administrator claims that however the individual boilers for each accommodation on the balcony can no longer be installed, and that a single central boiler but with separate circuits is not feasible because the system previews that from the boiler leaves a pipe for each apartment, while now from the boiler part only one tube and the plant of all the accommodation is a single circuit.

its proposal has been to connect to the methane the kitchens, put a small boiler (this can be put in its opinion) on the balcony for each accommodation only for the warm water of domestic use and to install on each radiator an electrovalve "contabilizer" so that everyone can adjust the temperature and reading the values of such electrovalves pay its heating quota.

would anyone know how to tell me the rules to be referred to?

 

[gil]

single boilers for each room on the balcony can no longer be installed

I don't think so, if there is a very recent disease as I have seen them do in the new buildings. made give by him the references to which he refers

a single central boiler but with separate circuits it is not possible because the system previews that from the boiler leaves a pipe for each apartment

You have to see what your house is like. It is probable that you have a central tube common to all from which on each paino you branch out the derivations that go to the individual apartments. In this case you can make the central system and you just need a single solenoid valve per apartment. If instead the plant is a single circuit, which I doubt because it would be a workmanship, then the administrator is right.

searching on the net I found
With regard to the transformation of a centralized plant into an autonomous building, the legislative reference is law 10/91 which provides capital contributions for such transformations in Article 8.

Transformation interventions must be made with the aim of reducing energy consumption. if the transformation does not guarantee energy saving the contributions are not lawful.

Article 26(2) of the law in question states that for interventions in common parts of buildings, aimed at containing the energy consumption of buildings, and the use of energy sources referred to in Article 1, including those referred to in Article 8, the decisions taken by a majority of the thousandth shares are valid.

the technical standards to be considered for the transformation of the plant itself are:

* the standard is 7129/92.
* the norms of the 10300 series and concerning the design and maintenance methodologies made mandatory by law 10 and by dpr 412/93.
* the norms uni 10640 of June 1997 on branched collective smoking rods for boilers type b to natural circulation.
* the norm uni 10641 of June 1997 on collective smoking rods and natural pull fireplaces for type c gas boilers with fan in the combustion circuit.

the laws stipulate:

* for all thermal gas heating systems the project is mandatory, regardless of the power, by a professional who must prepare a technical report with attached the project of the plant.
* the qualified professional must prepare a project also for branched chimneys as required by law 46/90.
* the owner or administrator of the condo must present the dia (starting declaration) in common, together with the technical report and the project of the professional.
* there is an obligation that all gas boilers are connected to special outlet fireplaces beyond the roof of the condo or collective chimneys always with outlet beyond the roof.
* In addition, it must be taken into account that the cost of annual maintenance and biennial verifications in the analysis of the fumes and combustion efficiency with the relative payment of the tax to the local control body.
* if it is not possible to demonstrate a real containment of energy consumption through project and technical report, the decision taken by majority in the condominium assembly may be annulled by the judge or already be in departure nothing. However, the Court of Cassation with judgment n. 5843 of 01/07/1997 states that the decision to transform the centralized plant autonomously, can be assumed and is valid even if it is not accompanied by the project and the technical report of conformity. It also states that the transformation should be assumed only in relation to the containment of energy consumption, its feasibility and its economic convenience.

and here we are faced with a dog that bites the tail, because to demonstrate economic convenience and energy saving, I need to make a dimensional calculation project, evaluating different climatic and characteristic parameters of the condominium and therefore I need a project.
http//www.proprietaricasa.org

 

[bagaroz]

Thank you very much.
the references to him I asked them but it was vague, and a discussion was born not too civil....
Now I read something then I ask him well, unfortunately the average age of the other owners is high and listen to whatever he says.

 

[gfrank]

Good evening,
I am new to this forum, generally bazzico on that of mechanics, I hope to have guessed the right section.
dress in an old condominium, with central heating, gas cylinders on the balcony for the kitchen and electric water heater.
In the last condo meeting, we discussed the possibility of doing some modernization work. the idea was to switch to independent heating, using the boiler also for home water and to connect the kitchen to the methane gas.
the administrator claims that however the individual boilers for each accommodation on the balcony can no longer be installed, and that a single central boiler but with separate circuits is not feasible because the system previews that from the boiler leaves a pipe for each apartment, while now from the boiler part only one tube and the plant of all the accommodation is a single circuit.

its proposal has been to connect to the methane the kitchens, put a small boiler (this can be put in its opinion) on the balcony for each accommodation only for the warm water of domestic use and to install on each radiator an electrovalve "contabilizer" so that everyone can adjust the temperature and reading the values of such electrovalves pay its heating quota.

would anyone know how to tell me the rules to be referred to?

the first step the administrator should take is to consult a thermotechnical, which:
1) detect the existing plant situation
2) produce a technical-economic feasibility project for plant transformation (heating and acs)

in drafting the project will have to take into account state and regional incentives for alternative energy sources installations

for the acs can also be realized a centralized system, with the contribution of the solar panels (both for acs and for heating), evaluate the replacement with a new condensing boiler that produces acs (also subject to contributions) and the installation on the radiator valves thermostatic with heat meters.
also for the acs, in addition to what is said in the previous posts, it would lead to leave the electric water heaters, but integrated with photovoltaic panels, perhaps with high peak power to produce and to use the common services (lift)

keep in mind that installing autonomous plants (in place of the cantralized) require large accessory works: smoking rods, modification of distribution circuits, building works to support, etc. that significantly affect costs.
I repeat, convince the condominiums to assign an assignment to a thermotechnical (not hydraulic) for an analysis and a project of qualified intervention ....

 

[bagaroz]

thanks for further advice,
it had thought about the autonomous because now there are some condominiums (2 out of 9 apartments total) bity and it is up to us to pay also their quotas, and the thing does quite angry (to use an euphemism... )

 

[gil]

as gfrank points out yours is the typical case of Italian design.

phase 1) a skills-free chicchesia decides the solution to adopt

stage 2) the chicchessia entrusts work to a friend of a friend, in your case the classic plumbing also called plumbing (i.e. the category of real hydraulics)

phase 3) the cutlery discovers that it takes signed paper to adjust everything. calls a technician who put himself in the face of the fact completed, and not being able to remedy, signs whatever potato he puts in front of him

phase4) the system works badly, braces complain, therefore return to phase 1.

 

[gfrank]

thanks for further advice,
it had thought about the autonomous because now there are some condominiums (2 out of 9 apartments total) bity and it is up to us to pay also their quotas, and the thing does quite angry (to use an euphemism... )

... yes, am who pays the transformation costs of the two morbid condominiums? ...
I try to guess: the other 7: eek:

... you hoped to get away with it....:biggrin: but not so

 

[gfrank]

as gfrank points out yours is the typical case of Italian design.

phase 1) a skills-free chicchesia decides the solution to adopt

stage 2) the chicchessia entrusts work to a friend of a friend, in your case the classic plumbing also called plumbing (i.e. the category of real hydraulics)

phase 3) the cutlery discovers that it takes signed paper to adjust everything. calls a technician who put himself in the face of the fact completed, and not being able to remedy, signs whatever potato he puts in front of him

phase4) the system works badly, braces complain, therefore return to phase 1.

... excellent example of motorcycle ...perpetuo ...:wink: