role drawing difference / design

[Victori_dek]

Good morning to all,
I was recently hired about 2 months ago in a company that produces automatic footwear machines/lines..I have proposed a 5 level ccnl (being a quinquennale neolaureate with poor experience). . Before entering, they had made me realize that they were looking for someone (especially a designer) who dealt with the sizing of machines (cold mechanics). As soon as I entered, however, they put me to work with their software cad saying that if I didn't know how to master that and to quote/put tolerances it was useless to talk about design... which is also good to me (as line reasoning).. but they framed me on paper as a mechanical designer. What I ask myself is whether or not there is a risk of being "locked" in this job without the possibility of professional growth. . . not to denigrate who does this job.. but if I wanted to do that, exited from theitis I would have put to look desperately for work and I believe after some time something I would have found.. in my technical office we are ten... and only 4 are engineers, the remain lost (and among the engineers there are 2 three-year graduates). ..according to you there is the risk that they told me faints or is it a common practice to insert neolaureates as designers and then move them to design? If it's so anyway they could have framed me as a designer and let me make los tesso an internal learning path..poi I don't know...do it smells to me. .

I wonder why I think it's two different things. One thing is to write. I don't know if I made the idea. .

 

[MassiVonWeizen]

How much rush (and assumption)... you've been working there for 2 months and worry about how your career will evolve in 2-3-10 years? and maybe it's your first experience
Meanwhile he learns well the software, drawing not simply by drawing lines, but asking why that quota is to be put there, because that tolerance and not another, because the particular is done in that way and not in another and that convenience there are...
In a few months, maybe I'd just... But if the detail did so, wouldn't it be better?... or... If the detail should be done on a cnc perhaps it is better to quote it in this way.. .
In a couple of years if the place is tight, you're looking for one as a designer. no one put you a chain

 

[stefanobruno]

In a couple of years if the place is tight, you're looking for one as a designer. no one put you a chain

questo dovrebbe essere il principio base, quando ci si accorge di dare più di quello che si riceve, allora è il momento di guardarsi attorno.
tutto il resto è presunzione, purtroppo molto diffusa.

un " progettista " non lo è perché ha la laurea, ma perché da piccolo smonta, rimonta e modifica tutto quello che trova, capisce al volo un dispositivo anche se non lo ha mai visto prima e, se non lo capisce subito, è curioso e vuole capirlo, poi diventa anche ing.

un " progettista " lo riconosci subito, un ing., a volte, non lo riconosci neanche se ne leggi il titolo.

 

[cacciatorino]

Good morning to all,
I was recently hired about 2 months ago in a company that produces automatic footwear machines/lines..I have proposed a 5 level ccnl (being a quinquennale neolaureate with poor experience). . Before entering, they had made me realize that they were looking for someone (especially a designer) who dealt with the sizing of machines (cold mechanics). As soon as I entered, however, they put me to work with their software cad saying that if I didn't know how to master that and to quote/put tolerances it was useless to talk about design... which is also good to me (as line reasoning).. but they framed me on paper as a mechanical designer. What I ask myself is whether or not there is a risk of being "locked" in this job without the possibility of professional growth. . . not to denigrate who does this job.. but if I wanted to do that, exited from theitis I would have put to look desperately for work and I believe after some time something I would have found.. in my technical office we are ten... and only 4 are engineers, the remain lost (and among the engineers there are 2 three-year graduates). ..according to you there is the risk that they told me faints or is it a common practice to insert neolaureates as designers and then move them to design? If it's so anyway they could have framed me as a designer and let me make los tesso an internal learning path..poi I don't know...do it smells to me. .

I wonder why I think it's two different things. One thing is to write. I don't know if I made the idea. .

From the legal point of view I think they have committed an abuse by not recognizing the role associated with the title of study, if you turn to a union you can surely get something, at the cost of being fired or not to see renewed the contract, and having created the name of puzzles..... that will accompany you every time they ask you where you had worked before:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:.

attention that I'm talking about frame, not job because from that point of view the reasoning that they have expressed is of absolute good sense (i.e. to become a good designer you must first be a good designer): If you're new graduate very hard you'll be able to design something more complex than the sensor bracket. Now this speech will sound crazy, but you'll see that in a few years, when you look back, you'll think we were right.
I wouldn't complain to you anyway. When the t.d. or the trial period is over, you'll see what you're doing, and if you've become good, the company itself will make you a proposal that suits your skills.

 

[Meteor02]

You're right an account is knowing how to write an account using power point. the fact is that for now you don't know how to write or use power point. take the time to make the necessary experience and demonstrate how much 6 capable then will be the time to be asserted.

 

[Victori_dek]

How much rush (and assumption)... you've been working there for 2 months and worry about how your career will evolve in 2-3-10 years? and maybe it's your first experience
Meanwhile he learns well the software, drawing not simply by drawing lines, but asking why that quota is to be put there, because that tolerance and not another, because the particular is done in that way and not in another and that convenience there are...
In a few months, maybe I'd just... But if the detail did so, wouldn't it be better?... or... If the detail should be done on a cnc perhaps it is better to quote it in this way.. .
In a couple of years if the place is tight, you're looking for one as a designer. no one put you a chain

I agree with you, it is however an opportunity to understand and learn many things that are completely obscure..unfortunately the concern arises from the fact that, at least from what I could see, often the companies do a clear separation between the two roles..in this case between two or ten years I think it is difficult to change role if you are categorized as "drafts" even if you want to pass on another . otherwise in universities should teach 5 years mechanical design instead of other materials such as construction science, applied mechanics, tribology and continue to call it engineering. . .

a " designer " is not because he has a degree, but because as a small disassembly, reassembles and changes everything he finds, he understands on the fly a device even if he has never seen it before and, if he does not understand it immediately, he is curious and wants to understand it, then he also becomes ing.

a " designer " immediately recognizes it, an ing., sometimes you do not recognize it even if you read the title.

But if they do not give me the opportunity to disassemble and reassemble or experience the "inventive" aspect of the same (under the supervision of a person much more experienced and capable of me) I see it hard. .

From the legal point of view I think they have committed an abuse by not recognizing the role associated with the title of study, if you turn to a union you can surely get something, at the cost of being fired or not to see renewed the contract, and having created the name of puzzles..... that will accompany you every time they ask you where you had worked before:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:.

attention that I'm talking about frame, not job because from that point of view the reasoning that they have expressed is of absolute good sense (i.e. to become a good designer you must first be a good designer): If you're new graduate very hard you'll be able to design something more complex than the sensor bracket. Now this speech will sound crazy, but you'll see that in a few years, when you look back, you'll think we were right.
I wouldn't complain to you anyway. When the t.d. or the trial period is over, you'll see what you're doing, and if you've become good, the company itself will make you a proposal that suits your skills.

I will not complain about the tasks but of the framing precisely...that is, I do not know that spendability I could have a tomorrow if I were framed as "mechanical trainer" instead of "designer engineer" since the equation for companies is becoming more and more "designer=experienced expert on geometric/dimensional tolerances" ..in every way we hope well... I am turned to you very much because you have an opinion. .

thanks to all for the answers :redface:

 

[Fulvio Romano]

I didn't understand the difference between designer and designer.
If I have to draw a beam, the calculation and then the drawing. if I have to draw a tree, size it and then design it. If I have to prevent something from getting out, I do two accounts to figure out if an elastic washer is enough or better put a cup on it, then the drawing.

I know, it's my limit, but I really can't catch the difference between the two.

 

[stefanobruno]

I didn't understand the difference between designer and designer.

the designer does what they tell him, the designer knows, says and does what you have to do.
the border is not clear, but the extremes stand out well.

I don't believe you didn't understand. :wink:

 

[meccanicamg]

normally in the first use the right word is "technical employee", whether you make the designer or the designer.
in Italy is very confused the use of the two terms. usually companies call designers when there is to pay and call designers when there is to use them to customers.
is that the designer is an entry level where he has to work under the command of designers, draws, makes distinct, print, etc. the designer makes far wider decisions, such as treatments, dimensions of various nature, technological choices etc as well as know how to draw.
as a rule is a path that is done with time. you get out of the university that you can't do anything, you go to draw, you eat a little dust, you pass some companies, if you can end up in the workshop to do something and after a few years you go to make the designer.... spend the years and you form.
any graduate 3 or 5 years must be framed 5 metalmechanical level to begin.

 

[meccanicamg]

You talk about strutturists who don't know about tolerances. ...certainly they are specialized in fem, taken immediately to do that job, seeming nerd means. Unfortunately I have seen it in the oil valve industry... and often remain poor technicians because they do not experience 360 degrees.
You're in an automation aunt. . ..you might have a lot more chance with time to do, design, modify, make some fems and not be very specialized in this, and many other things. cetti sectors are limiting, others make you do everything.
However apart when there is to iron the machines a point designer and just doesn't need anything. a designer's pumpkin always takes us.

 

[stefanobruno]

apart from when there is to iron the machines

I have seen iron designers (widening) the machines far beyond the limits, under the distracted supervision of the " responsible " in turn.
100mm per year, after 10 years a 1000 table machine would become 2000 and it is not that, if that from 1900 has rectified, it will also do that from 2000.
In that case there is no magician or fairy that can solve

 

[ninfh]

The beauty is when you see calandre designed 20 years ago that now magically "does work badly" because they flench, then you throw away a little historical and you see that it was designed to be half long and turn to a third of the speed.

 

[Focus]

that I know is important the framing, and the 5th level you have is correct for a newly assumed masterful neolaureate, the fact that the job says "mechanical trainer" does not count a patch, is not what will not make you be or not be a designer, that depends only on you.

Hi.

 

[D'amato]

I agree with you, it is however an opportunity to understand and learn many things that are completely obscure..unfortunately the concern arises from the fact that, at least from what I could see, often the companies do a clear separation between the two roles..in this case between two or ten years I think it is difficult to change role if you are categorized as "drafts" even if you want to pass on another . otherwise in universities should teach 5 years mechanical design instead of other materials such as construction science, applied mechanics, tribology and continue to call it engineering. . .



But if they do not give me the opportunity to disassemble and reassemble or experience the "inventive" aspect of the same (under the supervision of a person much more experienced and capable of me) I see it hard. .



I will not complain about the tasks but of the framing precisely...that is, I do not know that spendability I could have a tomorrow if I were framed as "mechanical trainer" instead of "designer engineer" since the equation for companies is becoming more and more "designer=experienced expert on geometric/dimensional tolerances" ..in every way we hope well... I am turned to you very much because you have an opinion. .

thanks to all for the answers :redface: