tram a padova:monorotaia killer

[myface]

Hello everyone, I wanted to bring back This is what interview to promote a thinker aimed at solving a big problem that afflicts the two-wheeled padovans.

the geometry of the rail of the new tram (it seems unpublished) , worsens the already unhappily rapposed between this type of city infrastructure and the free movement on bikes or motorcycles.

The wheels are framed and the people fall on the ground, in the midst of traffic, with all the consequences that can be imagined.

what could be a technical solution to the problem?

 

[maxopus]

the problem is big, and even if a solution is created (because with many brains in Italy ... a solution goes out) I think of the millions of euros that they have spent to make the trams and the relative rails.
What do you think is going to end? ... I'm afraid they'll let you pass as it is.

from wikipedia:
tranvia and translohr comparison

the translohr is proposed by the building house especially as a more economical and easier alternative to the classic tranvia; These advantages, however, have never been demonstrated so far, also because at practical time the construction of a translohr line has the same impact as a tram line.
other advantages, according to the statements of the lohr, would be:

* the possibility of facing steep ramps (up to 13%, but also trams can overcome very high slopes, such as sheffield or tender where slopes of, respectively, 10% and 9.5%) and narrower curve rays (10.5 m);
* the impossibility for the vehicle to be subject to derailments: but this last point was denied by the facts, since derailments occurred both at clermont-ferrand (October 2, 2006), and at padova (always on October 2, 2006, on May 5, 2007 with an injured passenger, July 11, October 29), and at tianjin (20 August 2007).

a clear disadvantage of the translohr lies in the fact that it is a proprietary system, produced exclusively by a company to which it is necessary to address in case you decide to expand the network and the fleet of vehicles; This prevents operators from placing contracts open to all tram and tram manufacturers.
another problem is the danger of the rail for cyclists: the presence of two flanked gorges, instead of one as in the traditional tranviary rail, and their excessive width create remarkable problems of stability to bicycles when these cross the road of the translohr.
Moreover, as the wheels act, in the street, always on the same "piste", will produce a remarkable deterioration, in such "piste", of the platform; this has already been found in the exercise of the bombers glt and has made necessary extensive repairs, of important cost to the manager.
Finally, there are doubts about the reliability of the translohr in cases of heavy snowfall.

 

[SHIREN]

hi myface hi max
The solution may not change the rail
but change the tram line
you can not expect to cross the city center and especially the old town with trams
Except as they're doing in napoli by creating a specific lane where only the trams pass, it's obvious that you need sketches.
in the movie the trams occupy the open road seat to car bike pedestrians
and even with changes I think it will be impossible for someone not to trip
instead of the trams maybe I would employ the trolleybuses on rubber
I think it would be a suitable solution to urban centers like those of the film
Thank you very much

 

[stevie]

I am much more drastic...what sense does a tram in 2010?
basically thinking about us well is a means of 2 centuries ago, little flexible, with enormous management costs, the costs for the laying of the rails are remarkable, and in fact the road headquarters is compromised as evidenced by these facts of news.
I mean, it made sense when there were no other alternatives.
with modern trolleybuses and hybrid bus I think you could easily do without it.
as usual the doubt that there are "hidden motives" is strong, especially when addressing a patented system and therefore in fact it binds with that precise supplier. . .

 

[myface]

I mean, hello, guys, you'd be with what was right under the video, recommending nighttime a nice concrete jet and no longer talking about it.

On the one hand it would also be right : mad: but on the other I do not feel to exclude a priori that the choice of the type of tram was made in good faith. (someone inevitably goes to favour, whatever the choice is made. )

if I have well understood you would have in this case the "softness" of the transport on rubber combined with the precise "guide" of a rail.

I would like to focus on technical aspects, i.e. how to replace the current driving system with another one, compatible with the rail modified in anti-trap vision.

 

[SHIREN]

I mean, hello, guys, you'd be with what was right under the video, recommending nighttime a nice concrete jet and no longer talking about it.

On the one hand it would also be right : mad: but on the other I do not feel to exclude a priori that the choice of the type of tram was made in good faith. (someone inevitably goes to favour, whatever the choice is made. )

if I have well understood you would have in this case the "softness" of the transport on rubber combined with the precise "guide" of a rail.

I would like to focus on technical aspects, i.e. how to replace the current driving system with another one, compatible with the rail modified in anti-trap vision.

Bye to you boy
I tell you my experience
in foundry there were!!!!! the trucks door siviera that big way they traveled with the same criterion and with the same prob
they put a hard rubber sheath (vulcalon) that opened when the wheels passed and closed to the wheel passage
but they were few tens of meters
Maybe it's a little arduous.
But sometimes
I don't believe
is not possible
But sometimes it can happen! ! ! ! ! ! !
a hug

 

[myface]

Bye to you boy
I tell you my experience
in foundry there were!!!!! the trucks door siviera that big way they traveled with the same criterion and with the same prob
they put a hard rubber sheath (vulcalon) that opened when the wheels passed and closed to the wheel passage
but they were few tens of meters
Maybe it's a little arduous.
But sometimes
I don't believe
is not possible
But sometimes it can happen! ! ! ! ! ! !
a hug

I understand what you mean, it was the first thing I've been thinking about, that is, a barrier that gives way to the weight of the tram but not to that of motorcycles and bicycles... the idea is right, however, as you say hardly applicable.:smile:

 

[SHIREN]

I understand what you mean, it was the first thing I've been thinking about, that is, a barrier that gives way to the weight of the tram but not to that of motorcycles and bicycles... the idea is right, however, as you say hardly applicable.:smile:

Bye-bye
as I already said in some other discussion
!!! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
research and
development ideas
The rest is alone
But if the universities of all Italy are 99% of ing that could be debating in the foundries (which is good saved by itself)
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! prob a padova never solve it
I wish you a great night

 

[Exatem]

the solution of a system that falls under the weight of the tram and not under that of a bike is perhaps the only one but think it on an urban network of km, I think it has exorbitant costs. maybe you save yourself with a nice insurance that pays back (just and rarely) the sick.
hi, shiren, a greeting.

 

[fab69]

Mah, maybe two centuries after the invention of the tram, would it be time to do a good "safety analysis"? ;-)

Anyway, speaking as a motorcyclist, I detest with all my soul the tracks of the tram, and I do not speak of certain "roads" that seem worse than the slopes of kalahari... and a "insurance" is a solution to the problem, also seen how the public works in Italy. . .

In my opinion, or the tram lanes are channeled so as not to interfere with the rest of the traffic, or the trams are replaced with trolleybuses.
the problem of the rail in the middle of the road has no solution for a two wheels (I would be curious to know how the mp3, which wheels has three but the two fronts small. ..
Does the machinery directive rightly exclude the means of rail transport from the scope of application, does anyone know what the rules are to be applied in this regard?

 

[maxopus]

I am much more drastic...what sense does a tram in 2010?
basically thinking about us well is a means of 2 centuries ago, little flexible, with enormous management costs, the costs for the laying of the rails are remarkable, and in fact the road headquarters is compromised as evidenced by these facts of news.
I mean, it made sense when there were no other alternatives.
with modern trolleybuses and hybrid bus I think you could easily do without it.
as usual the doubt that there are "hidden motives" is strong, especially when addressing a patented system and therefore in fact it binds with that precise supplier. . .

Allow me, it is not so at all, the problem is that in Italy in many cases we do things to caxxo.
amsterdam works perfectly, they have no roadside problems and are so integrated in the transport system (ferrovi and surface meter) that are of a Japanese precision.

 

[Fulvio Romano]

I mean, hello, guys, you'd be with what was right under the video, recommending nighttime a nice concrete jet and no longer talking about it.

On the one hand it would also be right : mad: but on the other I do not feel to exclude a priori that the choice of the type of tram was made in good faith. (someone inevitably goes to favour, whatever the choice is made. )

if I have well understood you would have in this case the "softness" of the transport on rubber combined with the precise "guide" of a rail.

I would like to focus on technical aspects, i.e. how to replace the current driving system with another one, compatible with the rail modified in anti-trap vision.

a rubber solution could be the concrete casting, and replace trams with trolleybuses. It doesn't seem to me that it is particularly expensive, in practice only the means are replaced...or not?

However, if the tram tracks are well made, i.e. on the road level, going over with the bike is not a shortcut to the hospital. I have never had problems, I say, of course affecting not under 20.
with the scooter is all another thing, and it does not depend on the radius of the wheel, but on its width, at least I think.

What do you say?

 

[myface]

the speech is that you can't always cross them with the corner you have to! :smile:

and if I put myself in the shoes of those who maybe put us back the jaws I think the insurance is just admitting defeat.:frown:

someone was talking about a medium that followed two white striscies drawn on the road through an optical sensor system.

at this point would not the road to develop a driving system that refers to the rail in a magnetic way, for example? that is to place a sensor that detects its position and servocommand the steering of the wheels.

logical that in particular situations ( snow type) you would pass to a manual guide .

 

[myface]

this in order clearly to be able to "fill" the grooves to the sides of the profile.

 

[Fulvio Romano]

the speech is that you can't always cross them with the corner you have to! :smile:

and if I put myself in the shoes of those who maybe put us back the jaws I think the insurance is just admitting defeat.:frown:

someone was talking about a medium that followed two white striscies drawn on the road through an optical sensor system.

at this point would not the road to develop a driving system that refers to the rail in a magnetic way, for example? that is to place a sensor that detects its position and servocommand the steering of the wheels.

logical that in particular situations ( snow type) you would pass to a manual guide .

off topic mode on:
the mandible should have used an integral helmet. all other types of helmets protect only from fines
off topic mode off:

I would swear that tracking systems do not exist, and those that exist do not work, even in rovers.. .
the adjustment is to spot, the optical recognition is not robust compared to weather conditions, the grige band systems excessively delay the dynamic response...unfortunately, they are used only in toys to make understand the rudiments of a control system.

 

[myface]

off topic mode on:
the mandible should have used an integral helmet. all other types of helmets protect only from fines
off topic mode off:

I would swear that tracking systems do not exist, and those that exist do not work, even in rovers.. .
the adjustment is to spot, the optical recognition is not robust compared to weather conditions, the grige band systems excessively delay the dynamic response...unfortunately, they are used only in toys to make understand the rudiments of a control system.

I understand, in fact the car that alone if you run into city traffic has not yet invented it.

But in this case it seems to me that the "track" to be followed is very "evident" to a possible detection system.

its presence could also allow a hybrid system, where (we are always assuming of course) electronic and mechanical combine.

I imagine, for example, a tasting wheel (maintained in contact with the rail) which transmits, according to its position, the data for the autonomous control of the servo steering wheel.

It seems to me that the derailments and the excessive depth of the rail gorges are due to the fact that it is claimed to make the rail itself the function of purely mechanically, heavy.

I get the comparison of a car with and without the hydroguide system, to understand...:smile:

 

[cacciatorino]

at this point would not the road to develop a driving system that refers to the rail in a magnetic way, for example? that is to place a sensor that detects its position and servocommand the steering of the wheels.

But would you trust me to send a 400-five "driven" gadget around the center like that?

p.s. I would trust perhaps a system with a wide groove a couple of cm and inside a roller that through a system commands the hydroguida, but it would be to throw away everything and to remake as head.

 

[cacciatorino]

But would you trust me to send a 400-five "driven" gadget around the center like that?

p.s. I would trust perhaps a system with a wide groove a couple of cm and inside a roller that through a system commands the hydroguida, but it would be to throw away everything and to remake as head.

Perhaps the only realistic solution is the one that cited shiren, among other things if it is a few miles it does not even cost a heritage.

 

[maxopus]

But would you trust me to send a 400-five "driven" gadget around the center like that?

p.s. I would trust perhaps a system with a wide groove a couple of cm and inside a roller that through a system commands the hydroguida, but it would be to throw away everything and to remake as head.

Oh, my gosh, maybe the Japanese did it even worse... with the magnetic levitation trains and I don't think they have any more accidents than before.

 

[fab69]

but it goes well in the foundry, where there is a preventive maintenance, periodic controls, etc...
In any street, they make an accident over the rail, the rubber lip is removed... and the commune replaces him in the next elections! in the meantime, return to the insurance, hoping that the motorcyclists prudently opt for the integral helmet instead of jet...
No, no, I think the rails are completely eliminated.
then, a 400 t to 50 km/h (pensed to kinetic energy), in control via slopes-pistine-laser-ccd-gps... But would you really trust me? ? ?
good brainstorm, x charity, but then you go down with your feet on the ground.. .
the right place x the tram: the museum! ;-)