unsatisfied neo-engineer

[Marco9669]

Good morning, I'm rotten, an engineer... in theory.
I tell you my story:
I graduated master's degree in mechanical engineering at 26 years because I started a year after college and lost a year in three years. It wasn't easy. economic problems, feeling a failure, fighting in the family, feeling offended by everything and by everyone, not feeling good at doing anything, but eventually I did it. I hate college, but I love mechanics. I hate the university system that only teaches what you don't need at work; I hate the fact that I came out that I couldn't do anything about anything. I hate so many college things, but the thing I hate most of all is that they lied to me all this time. it is not true that the university serves to find work; it is not true that the university serves to work; It's not for success. The university helps.... help? It helps. But how much? Here is this you never told me you professors, you proud engineers with capital with belly (pink) inside and chest outside... helps to find work more than one degree in letters but less than a simple paid course of 500euro. It seems mental that I did. I really thought the only way to look for work was to study six years? I didn't think that if I had turned 1 year every day looking for work I wouldn't have found a job like that or, indeed, probably a better job?
I tell you the truth, I don't want to lie to you because it's not right to do it, so I say: stop at the diploma, look for work and if you don't find it easily you do 1 cad course, if you don't just do a cam course and if you don't just take all the solidworks certifications or any software that comes to mind. I guarantee that it will be easier to become "certified solidworks expert" than to take even three years in engineering. and I assure you that to work is much more ulite (but much more) a certificate that graduates in mechanical engineering. you are curious and you want to understand why and for what? honor to you, you are like me. but also in that case the university is to be rejected. If you are curious, take information about the books used by students at the university (or even better pass the notes of the lessons from them), read on Saturday night and get back to work on Monday morning. because boys the truth is that after 5 years (if, maybe :roflmao of study are 1300 European net (after 6 months of internship ....so if you are a phenomenon the first salary of 1300 European nets you get to 25 years, but sincerely from the.... from us start in 70 and they graduate in 5 to session then I would say to 26 years... maybe even 27 in a year gone while instead your friend has started working at 20 years (it is because a year is taking us a year of pacchia) takes already at least 1500/1600, has a plan of life, soon will ask for the increase and shortly will buy house with the partner. What about you? nothing you are 26 years old with a hunger salary and you still have to live with your other 5 years to think about buying house with the partner (always if you are, because oh engineers do not go stealing and sincerely it is right so since we are ugly, dislike and poor in barrel).
engineer = success? No, work = success. !
I already work... because even here I see that a graduate has more desire than a college graduate. we graduates are exhausted, tired, lame... empty. because it is not easy to admit to ourselves that we have lost too much and earned nothing.
The only real thing that taught me my study trip is that I learned not to believe in promises. Mechanical engineering is a promise.

I hope to have been useful to a curious boy like I was and who loved mechanics as I loved her not to spoil as I did.
p.s no I am not a particular case, indeed I am lucky that I have been framed well (sometimes make even 1200.......). ccnl for a master engineer is a 5s go to see that net is

 

[MassiVonWeizen]

Hi.

First of all I would ask moderators to change the thread title, because you signed up today and start pointing your finger to professionals who made this forum a point of reference for so many people and especially so many students like you, professionals including there are also teachers, I would say that it is not a nice business card, though perhaps it explains some things about you

the university does not have the function of finding work, but to train people, culturally and socially, on a topic to which you are passionate and that you want to know then, theoretically, make it become your own work so that passion and working life are in synergy.
if you want to work only to bring home the loaf and put on you put on a vest and you go in a yard to pull up bricks or in a warehouse to move pallets with the bedside.

I tell you the truth, I don't want to lie to you because it's not right to do it, so I say: stop at the diploma, look for work and if you don't find it easily you do 1 cad course, if you don't just do a cam course and if you don't just take all the solidworks certifications or any software that comes to mind.

And this is enough for you to find work? If you don't know anything about mechanics, architecture, piping, technical design a serious company puts you at the door after a week's trial.
I would let everyone assess what to do according to their needs and objectives.

I hope to have been useful to a curious boy like I was and who loved mechanics as I loved her not to spoil as I did.

what can be the usefulness of your personal outburst sincerely I struggle even to imagine it; This is not a constructive criticism, but it is only a miserable vittimism.

 

[Marco9669]

It is not a criticism, nor a victimism. It's reality. the title I change it myself, it was definitely not a provocation towards this site obviously, but towards the "system" university. I said this sincerely even a mechanical engineer knows nothing about it and they bang the door in the face after a week. the utility is to explain to future generations that it is better to face reality as soon as possible rather than to get lost between formulas and demonstrations.
the speech is simple and I was quite clear:
1) you learn yourself also at university, so much worth reading the book on Saturday afternoon just for passion without feeling your breath at the neck and without having to learn by memory demonstrations etc.
2) the university no longer teaches you what you have already learned in high school (the little more is useless)
3) you can go wrong at 20 years, at 26 it gets heavier. so much it is worth doing the first figures when you still have life in front of so to 26 years you graduate are my boss, while I 26 year old came out with the master in mechanical engineering are in internships.

We can stay here and discuss whatever you want, but the facts are facts. no one can ever tell me that 5 years of experience are worth less than a degree in mechanical engineering.
I repeat it is not a provocation, nor an offense to anyone. a simple advice to those who like me years ago saw on the internet career promises and formations that never came to me or to companions; the goal of the discussion is this: if a boy writes "will he be a graduate in mechanical engineering nowadays?" on the internet maybe he will see this post and maybe he will make the right choice.

 

[Kaji]

I am not a graduate, but in the company where I spent 12 years of work and to which I am more tied, both in the civil technical office and in the mechanical one were all graduates except me and a geometra civil designer; the owner man with the third media that from the company of the father who repaired bicycles built a spa that in the good years billed almost 70 million year olds he preferred the graduates not for what they knew but for what they could learn and for the ability to always learn new things (even if they could be useless in the strictest practice) and in the ability to organize the time available to deal with a problem (in the specific case an examination).
the same pietro barilla, founder of the famous brand and who barely managed to put his own signature, built the faculty of engineering parme precisely because he knew how important training can be, but not understood as acquisition of notions that can be spent immediately, but as preparation of the mind to learn and know how to organize.
I certainly do not question the fact that from the economic point of view the 5 or more years employed for a master's degree are not recoverable, but that a graduate has different characteristics that some employers appreciate and that it can in some cases be an advantage.

 

[cacciatorino]

work for too little time, you still lack the experience to serenely assess the pros and cons of your situation. We'll talk about it in ten years.

Then money is not all, if you have the earning cravings, go to work in the oil wells of the libia, you will see that the house buys you in two years. Of course the quality of life will not be great, as it is certainly worse to stay ten hours a day in front of the working center than in front of the computer.

 

[cacciatorino]

p.s. I changed the title of the discussion because I don't like marketing done by shouting words.

 

[MassiVonWeizen]

p.s. I changed the title of the discussion because I don't like marketing done by shouting words.

Thank you

 

[TECNOMODEL]

It is not a criticism, nor a victimism. It's reality. the title I change it myself, it was definitely not a provocation towards this site obviously, but towards the "system" university. I said this sincerely even a mechanical engineer knows nothing about it and they bang the door in the face after a week. the utility is to explain to future generations that it is better to face reality as soon as possible rather than to get lost between formulas and demonstrations.
the speech is simple and I was quite clear:
1) you learn yourself also at university, so much worth reading the book on Saturday afternoon just for passion without feeling your breath at the neck and without having to learn by memory demonstrations etc.
2) the university no longer teaches you what you have already learned in high school (the little more is useless)
3) you can go wrong at 20 years, at 26 it gets heavier. so much it is worth doing the first figures when you still have life in front of so to 26 years you graduate are my boss, while I 26 year old came out with the master in mechanical engineering are in internships.

We can stay here and discuss whatever you want, but the facts are facts. no one can ever tell me that 5 years of experience are worth less than a degree in mechanical engineering.
I repeat it is not a provocation, nor an offense to anyone. a simple advice to those who like me years ago saw on the internet career promises and formations that never came to me or to companions; the goal of the discussion is this: if a boy writes "will he be a graduate in mechanical engineering nowadays?" on the internet maybe he will see this post and maybe he will make the right choice.

I could be the example of what you say wrong, I try to explain briefly my path.
passion for infinite mechanics since childhood, I choose a professional school and start working early (16 years) just graduated. 2 years as a lathe then I feel limited and I begin to make the tool, work that I carry out for 25 years with economic and personal satisfactions for the results achieved. I was fortunate to work in small companies, where it served to ingegnate, think and realize small projects, use all the machines in a completely round production process.
But then that job begins to stay tight, I would like to try to go to the technical office. then evening courses to learn the use of a cad and interviews in series.
and here difficulties come, I have no experience in ut and I have no specific training, many companies do not even look at my resume. Then, finally, I find a company that hires me and begins my second phase of work.
I work still now in a technical office, fortunately without great difficulty, I carry out projects independently and coordinate some phases of production, as well as having contacts with customers, suppliers etc.
But what I can regret is my lack at school, in these years I had to spend a lot of my time free to fill some of these gaps, but I will never be able to reach what would give me a complete course of studies, including universities.
I believe that the big problem is not given by the university but by the world of work that has been "created" in Italy, where a worker is seen only as a cost and not as a resource, where he tries to make competition to the Chinese by beating them on the price, lowering salaries, rights and safeguards, where the various governments that happen nothing do to improve the situation of a country where, unique in Europe, salaries are lower.
Perhaps you should review your choices in the light of some aspects that you have not considered, especially your priorities, passions and aspirations.
if you had as the only aspiration (legitimate and not questionable) to have money in your pocket and get to an economic autonomy in a short time then I agree with you that you made the wrong choices, if instead you had the aspiration to a job that would reward you, that would follow your passion, that would allow you to spend your days without constantly looking at the clock waiting to go out then your journey was just, only you will have to

 

[asblo]

banally, I think that the real difference of a potential career between a graduate and a graduate is the one to which he can point out the graduate. Perhaps you are now starting from the same contractual framework, but if you have some patience, dedication and make the right choices (not all companies need to exploit the skills of an engineer) you can get far more beyond what a graduate can point to. engineering skills of mathematics and physics do not make you sure by reading the evening for pleasure and curiosity.

I see, however, that you live in Veneto, I think it's a time when you have all the possibilities you want to discern various companies and take the best path for you with far-sightedness, here to the technicians, now as now, the job is behind them (to use a local expression)

 

[Marco9669]

p.s. I changed the title of the discussion because I don't like marketing done by shouting words

All right, there's no problem.

work for too little time, you still lack the experience to serenely assess the pros and cons of your situation. We'll talk about it in ten years.

Then money is not all, if you have the earning cravings, go to work in the oil wells of the libia, you will see that the house buys you in two years. Of course the quality of life will not be great, as it is certainly worse to stay ten hours a day in front of the working center than in front of the computer.

but hopefully...however I would do any job if they allow me to buy house after 2 years, eh, I am not spocchioso. the neet stand in front of the working centers, not me or a diploma in mechanics...even if it is not so bad the income of citizenship....

 

[PIETRO2002]

I could be the example of what you say wrong, I try to explain briefly my path.
passion for infinite mechanics since childhood, I choose a professional school and start working early (16 years) just graduated. 2 years as a lathe then I feel limited and I begin to make the tool, work that I carry out for 25 years with economic and personal satisfactions for the results achieved. I was fortunate to work in small companies, where it served to ingegnate, think and realize small projects, use all the machines in a completely round production process.
But then that job begins to stay tight, I would like to try to go to the technical office. then evening courses to learn the use of a cad and interviews in series.
and here difficulties come, I have no experience in ut and I have no specific training, many companies do not even look at my resume. Then, finally, I find a company that hires me and begins my second phase of work.
I work still now in a technical office, fortunately without great difficulty, I carry out projects independently and coordinate some phases of production, as well as having contacts with customers, suppliers etc.
But what I can regret is my lack at school, in these years I had to spend a lot of my time free to fill some of these gaps, but I will never be able to reach what would give me a complete course of studies, including universities.
I believe that the big problem is not given by the university but by the world of work that has been "created" in Italy, where a worker is seen only as a cost and not as a resource, where he tries to make competition to the Chinese by beating them on the price, lowering salaries, rights and safeguards, where the various governments that happen nothing do to improve the situation of a country where, unique in Europe, salaries are lower.
Perhaps you should review your choices in the light of some aspects that you have not considered, especially your priorities, passions and aspirations.
if you had as the only aspiration (legitimate and not questionable) to have money in your pocket and get to an economic autonomy in a short time then I agree with you that you made the wrong choices, if instead you had the aspiration to a job that would reward you, that would follow your passion, that would allow you to spend your days without constantly looking at the clock waiting to go out then your journey was just, only you will have to

Thank you for your intervention!

 

[Marco9669]

I could be the example of what you say wrong, I try to explain briefly my path.
passion for infinite mechanics since childhood, I choose a professional school and start working early (16 years) just graduated. 2 years as a lathe then I feel limited and I begin to make the tool, work that I carry out for 25 years with economic and personal satisfactions for the results achieved. I was fortunate to work in small companies, where it served to ingegnate, think and realize small projects, use all the machines in a completely round production process.
But then that job begins to stay tight, I would like to try to go to the technical office. then evening courses to learn the use of a cad and interviews in series.
and here difficulties come, I have no experience in ut and I have no specific training, many companies do not even look at my resume. Then, finally, I find a company that hires me and begins my second phase of work.
I work still now in a technical office, fortunately without great difficulty, I carry out projects independently and coordinate some phases of production, as well as having contacts with customers, suppliers etc.
But what I can regret is my lack at school, in these years I had to spend a lot of my time free to fill some of these gaps, but I will never be able to reach what would give me a complete course of studies, including universities.
I believe that the big problem is not given by the university but by the world of work that has been "created" in Italy, where a worker is seen only as a cost and not as a resource, where he tries to make competition to the Chinese by beating them on the price, lowering salaries, rights and safeguards, where the various governments that happen nothing do to improve the situation of a country where, unique in Europe, salaries are lower.
Perhaps you should review your choices in the light of some aspects that you have not considered, especially your priorities, passions and aspirations.
if you had as the only aspiration (legitimate and not questionable) to have money in your pocket and get to an economic autonomy in a short time then I agree with you that you made the wrong choices, if instead you had the aspiration to a job that would reward you, that would follow your passion, that would allow you to spend your days without constantly looking at the clock waiting to go out then your journey was just, only you will have to

I totally agree with you, in fact, they are the salaries of the thing that it does also because the university here is not different from that abroad, but abroad they pay. Obviously economic autonomy was not my dream, but surely at a certain age having to rely on parents does not rejoice at all. The job is rewarding, but until you see the bank account... It's not greedy, it's not being able to create a family with my partner.

 

[cacciatorino]

I totally agree with you, in fact, they are the salaries of the thing that it does also because the university here is not different from that abroad, but abroad they pay. Obviously economic autonomy was not my dream, but surely at a certain age having to rely on parents does not rejoice at all. The job is rewarding, but until you see the bank account... It's not greedy, it's not being able to create a family with my partner.

How old are you? 26? I suggest you avoid definitive and binding choices such as marriage and mortgage at least for another 5-6 years, go to rent and live the day for a while! ;-)

 

[Fulvio Romano]

It is not a criticism, nor a victimism. It's reality.

la yours reality. very different from that of many others.

the title I change it myself, it was definitely not a provocation towards this site obviously, but towards the "system" university.

You said you hated college. It's, but the bottom mistake then was to sign up, and that you did, not college. If I hate fish and go to a fish restaurant then I don't write as a review "in that restaurant you eat like crap."

the utility is to explain to future generations that it is better to face reality as soon as possible rather than to get lost between formulas and demonstrations.

Perhaps future generations have wider ambitions of becoming a caddist at 1600 euros per month. You know. Maybe they need those formulas and demonstrations to aspire to something more, to build with effort.

the speech is simple and I was quite clear:
1) you learn yourself also at university, so much worth reading the book on Saturday afternoon just for passion without feeling your breath at the neck and without having to learn by memory demonstrations etc.

No. definitely not.

2) the university no longer teaches you what you have already learned in high school (the little more is useless)

depends on receptivity. Hating university does happen exactly what you describe, otherwise not.

If a boy will write "will graduate in mechanical engineering nowadays?" on the internet maybe he will see this post and maybe he will make the right choice.

Maybe you're eliminating the future galileo Ferraaris from the market, or the future enrico stopped, do you realize? but are you so sure that your choice is "the right choice" and we engineers have all thrown the best years of our life to do something that is useless at best, and is often even harmful?

many in this thread have told their story. I thank them, but I avoid telling my story because it is the classic story of Dad's son with money in his pocket and the low manger who graduates without a crumb of difficulty and enters the world of work by breaking a door behind the other, so does not benefit the cause here treated.

 

[Stefano_GS]

on the university system, on the work system we could talk endlessly. We could talk to the infinite of the university-work relationship.
But I wouldn't be so sure your situation is representative of the general situation.
Since you have studied statistics, we may say that you are underestimating the risk of deducing conclusions from a statistical analysis that you have conducted with too limited sampling and therefore not sufficiently representative of the situation you would like to analyze.
I am 10 years older than you, studied engineering and my experience is very different from yours. I also had a lower salary than some friends who entered the world of work in 2011. Now the situation is mostly reversed. but in addition to the salary I am taking away professional satisfactions (which for others are only bad experiences, so each assessment is subjective) that with other paths I would not have had.

ps: if you are willing to sacrifice for a few years certain aspects of your life and the high salary is for you (also shared) an important lever of works well (very well) paid there are. I speak for personal experience

 

[Vittorio]

ciao @marco9669understand your astio.
to blame others today is fashionable more than ever.
you use it every time you don't want to take responsibility for something in your life.
use it, you will certainly avoid all risks and prevent yourself from growing.
you have two important tools to use.
your curiosity and studies done.
the curiosity with the third media of door not far away.
you probably have a circle of friends / acquaintances who already have an economic independence and compare you with them.. Maybe they already earn your dreams 1600€ and maybe they will earn them forever.
strength and courage, the choices you made are right.

 

[stevie]

are at least 15 years old that the technical-scientific professions in Italy are bistracted, are we discovering hot water?

the reasons are different, based on all the law demand-off, the Italian wage compression, the average reality of Italian companies (where basically research and development do not know what it is, except for more unique and rare cases), etc etc.
I can understand your mood, venting is fine, but then?

you have a problem, evaluate the possible solutions, apply them and determine if the result is satisfactory.
if it is not back and apply a different solution, until the result meets you.
You should have learned this first as an engineer. . .

 

[Marco9669]

ps: if you are willing to sacrifice for a few years certain aspects of your life and the high salary is for you (also shared) an important lever of works well (very well) paid there are. I speak for personal experience

Like what?

 

[PIETRO2002]

ciao @marco9669understand your astio.
to blame others today is fashionable more than ever.
you use it every time you don't want to take responsibility for something in your life.
use it, you will certainly avoid all risks and prevent yourself from growing.
you have two important tools to use.
your curiosity and studies done.
the curiosity with the third media of door not far away.
you probably have a circle of friends / acquaintances who already have an economic independence and compare you with them.. Maybe they already earn your dreams 1600€ and maybe they will earn them forever.
strength and courage, the choices you made are right.

exact, simply it is called long-term vision, the results are obtained with commitment and consistency and especially with time. .
If I have to give advice to someone, study, read books be curious. . do it with passion, not only for the piece of paper.
money at once can also be made with a walker and a gun (best toy) in your hand!

 

[Marco9669]

are at least 15 years old that the technical-scientific professions in Italy are bistracted, are we discovering hot water?

the reasons are different, based on all the law demand-off, the Italian wage compression, the average reality of Italian companies (where basically research and development do not know what it is, except for more unique and rare cases), etc etc.
I can understand your mood, venting is fine, but then?

you have a problem, evaluate the possible solutions, apply them and determine if the result is satisfactory.
if it is not back and apply a different solution, until the result meets you.
You should have learned this first as an engineer. . .

complaining about me will not bring anything. I will have to do more to myself..the evening back from work (type now).
I try only in my little one to give suggestions. If a boy enrolls in university because they like the research career, well come, I am the first who recommends the university... but today is no longer like when you do calculations and drawings by hand, you have to be practical because in the company they do not expect you to learn and do not invest in training; They want things ready.
First you start forming yourself better. I started now because precisely I was not satisfied with the university solution: seems to have learned this first notion as an engineer