info idroguida

[penna84]

Maybe that's exactly what you should calculate..

greetings
Marco:smile:

p.s. usual my elucubrations;
but why choose thesis on topics of which you know little or nothing?
and I see that it is established practice.

Better ask who's tires.
the data depends on a large number of variables, type of tyre and tread, inflating pressure and type of asphalt.

you have to find the worst condition for your application.

the area (print) of the tire (worst condition) is the area that creates friction, you have to calculate its size.

You must know how the tire moves when you dirt, depends on the architecture of the suspension and the offset of the circle.

the same tire can "screw" by twisting "on the spot", or by turning on its axis.

You have to consider the wheel blocked by brakes, worse condition, the tire can't rotate and must download all friction to the ground.

after having had an idea of these loads, on which you can measure standard efforts, you have to give a dimension to accidental efforts, typical of the "coupler".

This dimensioning should already be done by calculating the wheel hub, the reasoning is as follows:
If I hit at a certain speed an obstacle (beams the high ropes) what do I want to happen?
at what lateral speed (acceleration) do I agree that you damage the suspension?
In the end, what do I want you to break first (the circle, normally it is better to sacrifice yourself by deforming to save the rest)?

These questions should have already been answered up, the answer to these questions with the right safety factor (safety organ) will give you the size of the maximum effort to which the steering wheel will have to resist (maybe deforming, but never break).

This for a homologated vehicle, a sports vehicle or a quarry is different.

p.s.: unfortunately senna paid the account.

From now on I'll give you all the secrets...to doing an internship in a company that sells components of regenerated cars, among the things they do had a problem on the hydro, I unfortunately knew little both the company and the topic and I accepted, there is the crisis no company needed a trainee and I wanted to start as soon as possible, only later I realized ke were in possession of very few data and that I should solve the problem almost totally from only.
the problem is to create a test bench to test all the hydros and to understand if they work correctly, sometimes there are guarantees where the mechanic finds a difficulty in turning the steering wheel to the right or left, or it happens that the steering wheel is too soft.
in the company once a hydro is regenerated the only test they do is try it with pressure oil at the end of the race, so check if the seals lose and if the distribution drawer opens and passes the oil in pressure.
the calculation of the resistance to the wheels I needed to figure out how the distribution drawer behaved. .
I have always thought ke to machine stop the hydroguide to help the sterzata receive the max pressure but doing the accounts knowing ke the pump to 100bar and knowing the area of the piston comes me a force of 6000n thrust and seems exaggerated to win the resistance between wheels and asphalt and if the hydroguida always works at a much pressure below the 100bar xke do not put a less powerful pump! mha...
boys nn so + ke fish piglia!!:frown:

 

[Er Presidente]

the problem is to create a test bench to test all the hydros and to understand if they work correctly, sometimes there are guarantees where the mechanic finds a difficulty in turning the steering wheel to the right or left, or it happens that the steering wheel is too soft.

the servo steering of the cars works as a force amplifier, so it must be proportional to the force that applies to the steering wheel.
When you act on the steering column, apply a torque to a torsion spring that commands the "cassetto" and the hydroguide tries to "follow" your rotation by applying so much more force increases the flow.
often the problem is not in the box itself but in the proportionality system, too much or sensitive pos.

in the company once a hydro is regenerated the only test they do is try it with pressure oil at the end of the race, so check if the seals lose and if the distribution drawer opens and passes the oil in pressure.

It is also necessary to check that the drawer opens with the right proportion.

I always thought ke to machine stops the hydroguida to help the sterzata receives the max pressure but doing the accounts knowing ke the pump to 100bar and knowing the area of the piston comes me a thrust force of 6000n and seems exaggerated. . .

Is that too much?
That force must be applied to the fusel through a lever, you cannot know a priori if that force is too much or little.
also take into account that you can have the wheel in a hole or the tire.

 

[MBT]

I'll give you all the secrets. I'm doing an internship in a company that sells regenerated car components,
...cut...

Now it's clear.. .
However excuse, since you regenerate auitomobilistici components, creod that the manufacturer can give you "test" data on components
At least as far as I am concerned, our customers who need to maintain on some components that are provided to them, we also provide a handbook with writing how to dismantle it, how to clean it, how to restore it and how to check that it works properly.

 

[penna84]

the servo steering of the cars works as a force amplifier, so it must be proportional to the force that applies to the steering wheel.
When you act on the steering column, apply a torque to a torsion spring that commands the "cassetto" and the hydroguide tries to "follow" your rotation by applying so much more force increases the flow.
often the problem is not in the box itself but in the proportionality system, too much or sensitive pos.


It is also necessary to check that the drawer opens with the right proportion.



Is that too much?
That force must be applied to the fusel through a lever, you cannot know a priori if that force is too much or little.
also take into account that you can have the wheel in a hole or the tire.

until now I have studied on 6 different pinions all belonging to the fiat point, applying a couple and seeing the rotation I noticed that all have the same behavior in both verses, unfortunately I do not know the cycles and hours of use but I think it is hardly possible to have yielding for fatigue.
a difference between the xò pinions is there, the elastic constant changes! ! !
for the same identical lazy one is worth about 72nm/rad and the other 92nm/rad
this difference is given by the diameter of the twist bar that passes from 5.36 in the first case to 5.74 all the rest is equal (measure made with the centimeter caliber + or -)
Then I took these two different pinions, mounted them on a hydroguide and tried everything on the test bench, put the hydro at the end of the race, applied a couple and measured the oil pressure entering the drawer
for the sprocket with constant greater I noticed that the pressure entered with a couple lower than the other...given as it should be the opposite, the pinion with d 5,36 had anke a difference between right and left on one side opened at 4 degrees on the other with 3 degrees..visto ke cmq the torsion bar had a homogeneous use I do not understand this diversity.

 

[penna84]

Now it's clear.. .
However excuse, since you regenerate auitomobilistici components, creod that the manufacturer can give you "test" data on components
At least as far as I am concerned, our customers who need to maintain on some components that are provided to them, we also provide a handbook with writing how to dismantle it, how to clean it, how to restore it and how to check that it works properly.

a trezzi wagon sells the pieces of the car ke scrap, they do the same xò first fix them. .non sn direct competitors of the manufacturers xò do not think ke give you suggestions on how to improve

 

[MBT]

a car tottrezzi sells the pieces of the car ke scrap, they make equal xò before they fix them. .non sn direct competitors of the manufacturers xò do not think ke give you suggestions on how to improve

on how to improve certainly not...
on how to repair maybe you...
and at least the operating specifications should provide them.
I think asking is lawful...:tongue:

p.s.
It's called a wagon, not a trezzi wagon.... :tongue:

 

[penna84]

on how to improve certainly not...
on how to repair maybe you...
and at least the operating specifications should provide them.
I think asking is lawful...:tongue:

p.s.
It's called a wagon, not a trezzi wagon.... :tongue:

madonna ke figuraccia:biggrin:
cmq I will contact the trw at + soon

 

[stevie]

on how to improve certainly not...
on how to repair maybe you...
and at least the operating specifications should provide them.
I think asking is lawful...:tongue:

p.s.
It's called a wagon, not a trezzi wagon.... :tongue:

I strongly doubt that a producer of hydroguida systems helps what is actually a competitor, although it is "regenerated" products.
here we speak clearly of reverse engineering. this company selling regenerated components removes market to the original manufacturer, so I see unlikely a collaboration from this.

 

[penna84]

I strongly doubt that a producer of hydroguida systems helps what is actually a competitor, although it is "regenerated" products.
here we speak clearly of reverse engineering. this company selling regenerated components removes market to the original manufacturer, so I see unlikely a collaboration from this.

I think like you..I have to try to contact a company saying exclusively that I am doing a thesis on their components hoping that they give me some data without too many questions..I see it hard! I will ask him for advice on this.. Let's consider what he recommends me to do.

 

[sampom]

..I had to try to contact a company saying exclusively that I am doing a thesis on their components hoping that they give me some data without too many questions. .

very questionable and unfair method. .
for a future engineer who would like to face the world of work demonstrating professionalism eek if these are credentials. .

greetings
Mar

 

[Mr.Panda]

you should find something about this old Soviet text of the late 70s early 80s
p.lukin,g.gaspariants,l.rodionov - automobile chassis design and calculations - mir publisher moscow (1981) ... maybe you find it in some university library polito or polymi dubito that there are around after the collapse of the urss, if it does not contain explicit data contains the calculation reports of all the steering system from which you know of diamensions and masses

Good luck, panda!

 

[penna84]

very questionable and unfair method. .
for a future engineer who would like to face the world of work demonstrating professionalism eek if these are credentials. .

greetings
Mar

Are you able to criticize?! You're the only one who's given it.
cmq internship is an anke way to learn notions, help the company and be followed, if the company follows me little and gives me a complex problem what to do?!?! From hydro nn construction houses I demand all the design studies, I would just like to clarify the concepts. .

 

[MBT]

Are you able to criticize?! You're the only one who's given it.
cmq internship is an anke way to learn notions, help the company and be followed, if the company follows me little and gives me a complex problem what to do?!?! From hydro nn construction houses I demand all the design studies, I would just like to clarify the concepts. .

In the meantime, it moderates the terms...
sampom is however a person older than you and with more experience, as well as a moderator.

However, both from an ethical point of view and from that "technical" is right.
You can't deal with who you're not for the purpose of getting information.

 

[Er Presidente]

Then I took these two different pinions, mounted them on a hydroguide and tried everything on the test bench, put the hydro at the end of the race, applied a couple and measured the oil pressure entering the drawer
for the sprocket with constant greater I noticed that the pressure entered with a couple lower than the other...given as it should be the opposite, the pinion with d 5,36 had anke a difference between right and left on one side opened at 4 degrees on the other with 3 degrees..visto ke cmq the torsion bar had a homogeneous use I do not understand this diversity.

the more 'travelling between the weed and the box (the greater load at the wheel) and the greater the work of the servosterzo.
If the twist bar is softer it means that at the same stress on the wheels you want a greater work of the servosterzo and lesser at the wheel, maximum slide, minimum effort.

the difference between right and left is desired in case the ring is not equal in the two senses, often you can verify that the cars do not have exactly the same number of turns for a complete steering on the right and left.

 

[Er Presidente]

I think like you..I have to try to contact a company saying exclusively that I am doing a thesis on their components hoping that they give me some data without too many questions..I see it hard! I will ask him for advice on this.. Let's consider what he recommends me to do.

Perhaps you could advise the company to become official repairer of a particular brand of servosterzi, it could be an opportunity to grow.

see on sites the industry boxes for industrial vehicles or special applications, there is definitely more information and hydroguides are all designed with similar philosophies.

Consider that component builders often build for big builders without even knowing them why certain choices.
different is the case in which they produce for the market of the builders, they must necessarily provide the information for the choice of assembly and installation.

Hi.

 

[guidolin.m]

From now on I'll give you all the secrets...to doing an internship in a company that sells components of regenerated cars, among the things they do had a problem on the hydro, I unfortunately knew little both the company and the topic and I accepted, there is the crisis no company needed a trainee and I wanted to start as soon as possible, only later I realized ke were in possession of very few data and that I should solve the problem almost totally from only.
the problem is to create a test bench to test all the hydros and to understand if they work correctly, sometimes there are guarantees where the mechanic finds a difficulty in turning the steering wheel to the right or left, or it happens that the steering wheel is too soft.
in the company once a hydro is regenerated the only test they do is try it with pressure oil at the end of the race, so check if the seals lose and if the distribution drawer opens and passes the oil in pressure.
the calculation of the resistance to the wheels I needed to figure out how the distribution drawer behaved. .
I have always thought ke to machine stop the hydroguide to help the sterzata receive the max pressure but doing the accounts knowing ke the pump to 100bar and knowing the area of the piston comes me a force of 6000n thrust and seems exaggerated to win the resistance between wheels and asphalt and if the hydroguida always works at a much pressure below the 100bar xke do not put a less powerful pump! mha...
boys nn so + ke fish piglia!!:frown:

I found myself in a situation similar to your own a few months ago and I didn't find appreciable data. I finally got them by means of multibody software (the old visual nastran) and a tyre model created ad hok. However, regarding the force you declare, it is not exaggerated at all: on the workshop manual of the alpha 159 declare that the hydroelectric servosterzo that mounts develops a maximum force of 11 kn...

 

[penna84]

In the meantime, it moderates the terms...
sampom is however a person older than you and with more experience, as well as a moderator.

However, both from an ethical point of view and from that "technical" is right.
You can't deal with who you're not for the purpose of getting information.

if a person is + senior and does the moderator cmq does not give him the right to write in daring manners.
in the company although I was almost never followed I managed to take some data by doing experimental measures invented by me, with scales and what else, books on hydroguides I did not find or I turn up things or ask what given to a company that designs them.. if not what should I do?! Don't I finish the argument? !
And then I don't shoot anyone. I'm a student who's doing a thesis and just needs a hand. .

 

[penna84]

I found myself in a situation similar to your own a few months ago and I didn't find appreciable data. I finally got them by means of multibody software (the old visual nastran) and a tyre model created ad hok. However, regarding the force you declare, it is not exaggerated at all: on the workshop manual of the alpha 159 declare that the hydroelectric servosterzo that mounts develops a maximum force of 11 kn...

the problem would be to understand what is the resistance on the braces in various xò driving situations are data ke require a lot of bumpers that I do not know where to find..parrlami of the program, can I find what given?

 

[penna84]

the more 'travelling between the weed and the box (the greater load at the wheel) and the greater the work of the servosterzo.
If the twist bar is softer it means that at the same stress on the wheels you want a greater work of the servosterzo and lesser at the wheel, maximum slide, minimum effort.

the difference between right and left is desired in case the ring is not equal in the two senses, often you can verify that the cars do not have exactly the same number of turns for a complete steering on the right and left.

but are you 100% sure that on the right and left the number of turns is different?! That sounds weird.
cmq I happened to have pinions opening on the right all the drawer half a degree before that on the left..I have to understand if this data then makes itself felt on the use of the medium.

 

[guidolin.m]

the problem would be to understand what is the resistance on the braces in various xò driving situations are data ke require a lot of bumpers that I do not know where to find..parrlami of the program, can I find what given?

the speech in my opinion is quite simple: In any case you must consider the most dangerous situation, so, as already written by someone previously, you can put yourself in favor of safety by blocking the wheels and measuring the efforts on the steering arms. I don't know if your faculty makes you available multibody software, if it were to build a simplified vehicle model wouldn't be a big problem. I could recommend you, for example, lotus suspension analysis (here you find info: www.lesoft.co.uk); it has already inside many models of suspension "preset" and is a play by boys to see the forces that develop on the various members. I use it at university and it is quite valid, especially for a preliminary analysis in the sizing phase. I think you might be useful (if you didn't have it, it's not even very expensive)