• This forum is the machine-generated translation of www.cad3d.it/forum1 - the Italian design community. Several terms are not translated correctly.

can you do it in one piece?

  • Thread starter Thread starter athlon
  • Start date Start date

athlon

Guest
Hello everyone,

I have to make this crank and to simplify /irrobustire I wondered if it was possible to make it in a single piece.

the dimensions are about 6 cm the diameter of the two wheel (actually, toothed wheels) , 10 cm the length of the whole piece , 2 cm the diameter of the central pin.

My doubts concern:
can you work the central pin to make it circular or machine tools need more space? (there are 2 cm between the two arms)

can you work external dentate wheels or even here the tool to make the teeth (right) need more space?

Can the hardening of the teeth and the pin be done?

Thank you.
 

Attachments

  • manovella-dentata.webp
    manovella-dentata.webp
    150.6 KB · Views: 100
athlon said:
Hello everyone,

I have to make this crank and to simplify /irrobustire I wondered if it was possible to make it in a single piece.

the dimensions are about 6 cm the diameter of the two wheel (actually, toothed wheels) , 10 cm the length of the whole piece , 2 cm the diameter of the central pin.

My doubts concern:
can you work the central pin to make it circular or machine tools need more space? (there are 2 cm between the two arms)

can you work external dentate wheels or even here the tool to make the teeth (right) need more space?

Can the hardening of the teeth and the pin be done?

Thank you.
Click to expand...
I don't want to be a master, but...
- in mechanics only use millimeters
- doing in a single piece is not a simplification or reduces costs. also does not spray even
- cylindrical objects are typically processed at the lathe, and that pin cannot be worked at the lathe.
- The dense wheels are bought. are built only in exceptional cases or in large series
- in the object I don't see flyers (these fly an element with a great moment of polar inertia that turns around its center)

to be more precise we should know what to do the piece, and especially the pull. If you do several million pieces, you might think about sintering, but I repeat, you have to know purpose and loads on the piece.

so to the eye I would say to buy two toothed wheels, a pin, shoulders, weld everything together and if necessary to resume machine the only surfaces to tolerate (tolerant? What a bad term... )
 
Hi.
you could try with a micro fusion
theoretically inserting into the fusion as a pin a metal graft
rectified
pin around which you could start for a whole series of mecc processing
The design is too "big"
there would be the need prog.il all according to needs of foundry
It's useless to tell you that it takes numbers.

in the area you can askinfo@microeuro.itis a micro fusion foundry
Thank you very much
p.s.
  1. How many of the wheels and the pin?? ? ? ?
  2. How many of the toothed wheels??? ? ? ? ?
 
SHIREN said:
Hi.
you could try with a micro fusion
theoretically inserting into the fusion as a pin a metal graft
rectified
pin around which you could start for a whole series of mecc processing
The design is too "big"
there would be the need prog.il all according to needs of foundry
It's useless to tell you that it takes numbers.

in the area you can askinfo@microeuro.itis a micro fusion foundry
Thank you very much
p.s.
  1. How many of the wheels and the pin?? ? ? ?
  2. How many of the toothed wheels??? ? ? ? ?
Click to expand...
I mean, you say you merge "around" to an existing piece, like a soul?
I don't know the technique, it sounds interesting. . .
 
but there are some points that do not convince me. . .
Fulvio Romano said:
- cylindrical objects are typically processed at the lathe, and that pin cannot be worked at the lathe.[
Click to expand...
Okay, but no one seems to have talked about lathe but machine tool and for m.u. You can also mean a 6-axis working center, which may be too many to make such a piece.. .
Fulvio Romano said:
- The dense wheels are bought. are built only in exceptional cases or in large series
Click to expand...
not always true, the wheels are built and not only in exceptional cases or in large series.. .
Fulvio Romano said:
so to the eye I would say to buy two toothed wheels, a pin, shoulders, weld everything together and if necessary to resume machine the only surfaces to tolerate (tolerant? What a bad term... )
Click to expand...
I do not know but this solution for the piece in question does not convince me, even because I think it buys here, firm of la, fixes what there is to fix. . In the end, I think you spend the same and risk of having an approximate job. . .

Hi.
p-h
 
Fulvio Romano said:
I mean, you say you merge "around" to an existing piece, like a soul?
I don't know the technique, it sounds interesting. . .
Click to expand...
Hello fulvio
in practice builds a "case shape where the model of the piece rightly sez is inserted
to fill itself with wax and pi after solidification is extremised
the strain is immersed in various layers of porcelain
it eliminates wax and big way it colates bunches
you should understand with a detailed design if everything can be inserted
a metal insert(at the moment I don't know if the insert should be heated
before melting
Of course they can be obtained also the dendi of the gear
It is useless to say that it takes a specific experience
back time I realized something for the locks of trains
in stainless steel-c40 etc
but in the specific situation you have to ask those who merge in the daily
Thank you very much
 
thanks to all for suggestions :finger:

as a working environment, sunscreens etc etc., realize that this piece gives the engine shaft of a 4-stroke 125cc engine that works as a motor generator.


dimensions in mm:

diameter gear wheels 60 mm
thickness 5 mm dense wheels

diameter 20 mm
length 10 mm

distance center pin center toothed wheel 60 mm

shoulder dimensions 10 mm x 20 mm x 100 mm
 
athlon said:
thanks to all for suggestions :finger:

as a working environment, sunscreens etc etc., realize that this piece gives the engine shaft of a 4-stroke 125cc engine that works as a motor generator.


dimensions in mm:

diameter gear wheels 60 mm
thickness 5 mm dense wheels

diameter 20 mm
length 10 mm

distance center pin center toothed wheel 60 mm

shoulder dimensions 10 mm x 20 mm x 100 mm
Click to expand...
the size of the measures
to return the pin you have 80 bouncing
if you center everything on a lathe the pin you can work no prob
I think you can do the unique piece:finger:
 
Thank you very much


But at this point I have the doubt that it put me Roman lightning, why would a single piece be less robust than so many little pieces together?
 
athlon said:
Thank you very much


But at this point I have the doubt that it put me Roman lightning, why would a single piece be less robust than so many little pieces together?
Click to expand...
because if you open a clique on a single piece, no one stops it anymore. instead if there are discontinuity of material, these stop the breaks.
Moreover a machine-worked casting has a different grain from, for example, a laminated and turned tondino. the latter will have elongated grains and therefore is more resistant.

we are peeling the egg though...if you want to make a unique piece that resists the project stresses, just dimensional the whole correctly, especially the rays of the fittings
 
and now the question of reserve, to make an aluminum prototype how much it would cost me + or not (the dense wheels should have 31 teeth with teeth about 5 mm high)
 
athlon said:
and now the question of reserve, to make an aluminum prototype how much it would cost me + or not (the dense wheels should have 31 teeth with teeth about 5 mm high)
Click to expand...
..uhmmm.
only some doubt;
it would be interesting to know the characteristics of this "motor" in project.

some dimension did not come back to me: for a 125 4t a 120mm race seems definitely exaggerated, leads to an alege of just 36mm and broken.

power, couple and then regime have you already established them? Those 5mm thick-wheeled wheels seem a little bit scary, you send us very little. above all with the "module" you intend to adopt you would not even stay with the measures; 31 of those teeth require an external ø between 75 and 80 mm.. and you will have to make "correct" teeth.

Could you better explain the application and provide some number (technical data)?

greetings
Mar
 
.. then you said that between the 2 arms of crank there is a space of 20mm and then that the pin is 10mm long..
How is it?

greetings
Mar
 
sampom said:
.. then you said that between the 2 arms of crank there is a space of 20mm and then that the pin is 10mm long..
How is it?
greetings
Mar
Click to expand...
is right the second 10 mm


the aluminum prototype is used to physically see the pieces, do the assembly tests, and see if the maintenance is feasible


It's going to be higher because the engine is actually going to be a small head for rural areas in the 3rd world fed a little bit to what happens, so the combustion pressures will be much lower than normal engines, even as regimes I don't think the 1000 rpm will be over.

Have you put a doubt on the teeth to convey the power with maximum reliability, do you want to make so many small teeth like a thousand-rigue or a few big teeth?
 
athlon said:
is right the second 10 mm


the aluminum prototype is used to physically see the pieces, do the assembly tests, and see if the maintenance is feasible
Click to expand...
I don't know, but maybe you should do it in plastic with a 3d printer...it's small enough to do it in a single piece, and here on the forum maybe there's someone who can also make you a price indication.

or you can try to do it in papier-mâché...uah...uah..uahahahaha apologized I did not resist!!! (he touched it and related to another thread that the vast majority of us know:wink:, not athlon)
athlon said:
It's going to be higher because the engine is actually going to be a small head for rural areas in the 3rd world fed a little bit to what happens, so the combustion pressures will be much lower than normal engines, even as regimes I don't think the 1000 rpm will be over.

Have you put a doubt on the teeth to convey the power with maximum reliability, do you want to make so many small teeth like a thousand-rigue or a few big teeth?
Click to expand...
Thousands are not made to convey the bike. the bike is transmitted with conjugated profiles. the teeth of the wheels are epicloidal or evolving profiles. in practice only evolving because the construction technique and what ever trivial with a toothpick, the epicloid profiles should instead be milled to cn.

to dimensional the epicloid profiles is used the concept of "module". two teeth with the same module, gear without problems.

knowing the power to transmit and the pressure angle simplifies the tooth. If you do not want to do it, as I suggested at first, you buy the toothed wheel or gear, with a lot of datasheet.
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/ingranaggio
http://www.dima.unipa.it/~petrucci/disp/ruote.pdf
 
if the diameter of the teeth must be for reasons of encumbrance on the 60mm of diameter, check that a toothed wheel is applicable with 38 teeth module 1.5, if I did not take a dazzle the outer diameter should be 60mm :redface:

Hi.
p-h
 
athlon said:
:finger:

Thank you 1000 ,

I found this dense wheel generator online, but I don't find myself very much with the nomeclature... the module exactly what would it be in this generator?
http://woodgears.ca/gear_cutting/template.htmlDo you know more precise online generators?

Thanks again
Click to expand...
Forget that generator. that is a "game" (as sympathetic and useful for its purpose) to generate templates to print and cut out hobbistic use.
the module there is not because they consider instead a "circumferential pass" that assigns a distance between the teeth.
in mechanics is not so; it is used precisely the module that represents the height of the tooth between the primitive circumference and the outer circumference (and "contempla inside" uniquely shape and size characteristics):

m=øp/z or m=øe/(z+2)

the series of modules available for "normal" wheels is standardized, you do not choose a random number to return the accounts.. except for special cases, and then we talk about correct teething.

However here you are a general infarination:View attachment RUOTE DENTATE.rarand a catalog page for commercials:View attachment RUOTE DENTATE-catalogo tecnico ingranaggi a modulo.pdfgreetings
Marco:smile:
 

Forum statistics

Threads
44,997
Messages
339,767
Members
4
Latest member
ibt

Members online

No members online now.
Total: 77 (members: 0, guests: 77)
Back
Top