how much do they earn to keep me with partiva instead of project? !

[sarahemme]

Bye to all,
I entered this forum because I read a lot of useful interventions... I hope to find help.
My situation is this: I have to decide whether to accept a job at geometra as a designer but also other (reliefs on the field etc.). in this job I would be framed for the first three months to project and then with game iva. despite this I should be bound to their days and times, i.e. working as an employee but being paid first to project and then as a professional. :frown: I know very well that it is illegal what they have proposed to me, and that times and constraints prevent me from working for other customers, I am asking myself some things on which I hope to have some answers:
1) when the employer pays me with a game iva, spends only what comes to give to me? or has other expenses (taxes or something like that? )
2) Let us make sure that in taxes if I work with a game VAT 50% of what I take, so that I can live of this I should invoice 2000 euros per month, which for me would become 1000 net, therefore 24 000 euros per year of turnover. Let us assume that the geometra is willing to spend 24 000 euros a year for me (which I doubt), if it made me a project contract that makes me 1000 euros a net month, to him how much would it cost? less or more than 24000? I have as the impression that I would go to earn very little with the game iva.
3) Does anyone know how to address me to understand something about the work to be considered?
4) do I have any contractual power? I'd make myself project, rather than at the game I'd get to those conditions. . .
I hope I haven't gone off-topic or anything like this, it's the first time I connect here...
thanks and good evening

 

[cacciatorino]

Bye to all,
I entered this forum because I read a lot of useful interventions... I hope to find help.
My situation is this: I have to decide whether to accept a job at geometra as a designer but also other (reliefs on the field etc.). in this job I would be framed for the first three months to project and then with game iva. despite this I should be bound to their days and times, i.e. working as an employee but being paid first to project and then as a professional. :frown: I know very well that it is illegal what they have proposed to me, and that times and constraints prevent me from working for other customers, I am asking myself some things on which I hope to have some answers:
1) when the employer pays me with a game iva, spends only what comes to give to me? or has other expenses (taxes or something like that? )
2) Let us make sure that in taxes if I work with a game VAT 50% of what I take, so that I can live of this I should invoice 2000 euros per month, which for me would become 1000 net, therefore 24 000 euros per year of turnover. Let us assume that the geometra is willing to spend 24 000 euros a year for me (which I doubt), if it made me a project contract that makes me 1000 euros a net month, to him how much would it cost? less or more than 24000? I have as the impression that I would go to earn very little with the game iva.
3) Does anyone know how to address me to understand something about the work to be considered?
4) do I have any contractual power? I'd make myself project, rather than at the game I'd get to those conditions. . .
I hope I haven't gone off-topic or anything like this, it's the first time I connect here...
thanks and good evening

You've got only the disadvantages of one and the other situation.

consider that working on p.iva instead that on project you also have to give up paid vacations, paid illness, maternity etc etc.

Regarding your employer, once he paid you, he ended his obligations towards you, the same way he bought other services like phone or gas.
from your point of view, I strongly recommend you to inform yourself to a accountant or patronage: It seems to me that for the first three years p.iva have a flat tax or something like that (they are really the wrong person to talk about these things, however...), then informed even if you have obligatory payments to make to inps, which are usually calculated as a percentage of turnover. I mean, ask someone who knows and can take a picture of you.

If you are at the first working experiences, I think your contractual power is null. If you decide to accept, you can take it as an investment you make on yourself, but ready to go away at the first opportunity, considering that if they form you properly, in a few years you could become a "precious piece" in the labor market.

 

[sarahemme]

Thank you for the answer... But I already know I don't have them and I wouldn't even have them planned. The only advantage I would have in working on a project would be that at least I know from the beginning how much I gain.
I'm wondering if it's the case and I don't think... Let's see if anyone has what other opinion. .
Thanks again

 

[Exatem]

I am not the most suitable to answer you since 26 years design for the state but as it says hunting, if seen as a "palestra" to acquire experience and get rid of it could be all hay in cascina for the future, always ready for new occasions.
Bye and good luck.

 

[MBT]

memories from the period when I was free professional and I had some "collaborator" at game iva...

1) when the employer pays me with a game iva, spends only what comes to give to me? or has other expenses (taxes or something like that? )

It costs him exactly what he gets.
to the most of must pay the bill if you are enrolled to an albo of professionals and not as an artisan.
otherwise, no other than pure invoice

2) Let us make sure that in taxes if I work with a game VAT 50% of what I take, so that I can live of this I should invoice 2000 euros per month, which for me would become 1000 net, therefore 24 000 euros per year of turnover. Let us assume that the geometra is willing to spend 24 000 euros a year for me (which I doubt), if it made me a project contract that makes me 1000 euros a net month, to him how much would it cost? less or more than 24000? I have as the impression that I would go to earn very little with the game iva.

if you have ordinary accounting, 50% of taxes is optimistic. also consider that at the end of the first year you must anticipate part of taxes for the second year and so....
I know however that now there are facilities for those who open business, but it is better to get informed by at least 3 accountants. . .
if you think you get 1000 € net as an employee, consider, at spans, that the employer costs twice as much.
In fact, the purely economic difference between an employee and an employee is minimal. but that "non-economic" is remarkable... .

3) Does anyone know how to address me to understand something about the work to be considered?

better talk about it with 3 different accountants
I say 3 because everyone will give you a different interpretation of the law

4) do I have any contractual power? I'd make myself project, rather than at the game I'd get to those conditions. . .

Of course you have a contractual power. . .
You can sue the "dator" if you don't pay an invoice... :mixed:
apart from this, nothing else!
You'd be, in any case, a supplier. and as such you will be treated. . .
therefore your work will be subjected to meticulous criticism, so as to devalue it and pay less. the price will be treated to blood, you will be paid when he wants, and if he decides to close the shop you will not catch a quattrino
On the other hand, at least in the mechanical sector, you do all the work of low tampering, boring and repetitive. studies, the work "figo" will be done internally or by "specialists" who will be charged 60 €/hour and not 22.

But obviously it's a way to start. . .

 

[stefanobruno]

studies, the work "figo" will be done internally or by "specialists" who will be charged 60 €/hour and not 22.

I'm a "specialist" and I'm doing the "figo" job, give me an address for those who pay 60 hours?
from us when you solve the problems and ask for 30heuri turn to the ground.

Bye.

 

[enri]

for them is a huge gain compared to having an employee. Today you are quiet even architects and engineers have no escape, if you work in a studio always pay you with VAT, and almost never more than a thousand euros, which means earning less than 700 euros per month. However if you invoice less than 30000 euros per year you can have a flat rate, so no accounting books, and the first two years I think you pay 10% VAT. there are also facilities on expenses incurred for equipment. for general information you can find in the bookcases on the topic, for example Mayli publisher published something about the topic, "architects" and "geometries" explain in general the question, regarding the two professional figures, but of course then ask the accountants, also because then you will need to pay taxes.

I would like to point out that there is one law proposal to prevent employers from playing these games of the employee in a continuous relationship, often established with factory workers! qui experiences and comments to the question. as you can imagine is firm in parliament.

 

[Fulvio Romano]

So, I also say mine, I have left iva and work more or less like you:

- if you earn less than 30k€/year (loud) you can have the minimum regime (and not "perfectory")
- with the regime of the minimum exempt invoices (so for you it is a cost), six free from VAT books, six free from registration of invoices.
- in the invoice write an imponable, you will charge the taxable minus 20% of acknowledging that your "customer" has to pay with f24 and must then give you the certification at the end of the year with which you will make the tax return.
- the "client" also has to pay the case, for the engineers is 2% (4% from January), for the geometries do not know.
- the "customer" also has to pay 1.81€ stamp on each invoice greater than 70€. but the stamp then downloads it as if it were iva.
- your "client" is advantaged by the fact that you do not have to pay the contributions, which must pay also in case of project collaboration.
So, you'd lose your job security, illness, vacation, pension contributions, and... I think that's enough. However, there are many who use this incorrect practice.

 

[stef_design]

However, there are many who use this incorrect practice.

hello fulvio, why do you consider the game iva to regime of the minimum a incorrect practice?
I see many carrozzieri, hydraulics, electricians adopt it:biggrin::biggrinoi have at home the pool:finger:

 

[enri]

It's actually not called a lump. . :
I say that these are really independent and do not take a thousand euros per gross month, and then if they apply it alone it is incorrect in the case that an employer applies it to workers who are self-employed.

 

[Plus ENGINEERING]

from point 4). you have a huge contractual power: You can say no!
I can't know what to recommend. Just you know how much you need that job. what I would recommend is: informed, because knowing is power. when you have the information you decide according to what you want most, but remember that future needs can also be very different from current needs.

the matter in question (e.g. ) is however very complex and therefore I would not rely on opinions and advice of friends and acquaintances; I'd go to a pro. If you are of my parts (treviso) I can turn you the references of the study on which I support myself. I consider people very competent and available.

a cordial greeting.

 

[re_solidworks]

there is also another advantage: If you accept the job and ropmpi the boxes you don't have to give notice, send them to that country.
Another disadvantage is that if you're wrong something might ask you for damage, here you have to see what you write about assignment contracts. . .

 

[enri]

I think almost nobody writes assignment contracts, correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Fulvio Romano]

hello fulvio, why do you consider the game iva to regime of the minimum a incorrect practice?
I see many carrozzieri, hydraulics, electricians adopt it:biggrin::biggrinoi have at home the pool:finger:

In fact, incorrect practice is not the regime of the minimum, but hire people forcing it to open game iva.
then, if you have the villa with swimming pool and cayenne, it is not practical to bill with the minimum, indeed, maybe that is the only part of the volume of business not to be incorrect! :tongue:

 

[Fulvio Romano]

from point 4). you have a huge contractual power: You can say no!
I can't know what to recommend. Just you know how much you need that job. what I would recommend is: informed, because knowing is power. when you have the information you decide according to what you want most, but remember that future needs can also be very different from current needs.

the matter in question (e.g. ) is however very complex and therefore I would not rely on opinions and advice of friends and acquaintances; I'd go to a pro. If you are of my parts (treviso) I can turn you the references of the study on which I support myself. I consider people very competent and available.

a cordial greeting.

But having a game with the minimum regime is nothing expensive. if not billed, you pay nothing, if you use it, even little, you should keep it open. or close it and then reopen it when needed, it costs nothing and there is nothing wrong.

ah...forget, the minimum regime does not even participate in industry studies, which is a great thing!

 

[MBT]

I'm a "specialist" and I'm doing the "figo" job, give me an address for those who pay 60 hours?
from us when you solve the problems and ask for 30heuri turn to the ground.

Bye.

Well, it was a hyperbole. . .
However there are "consulents" that charge much more than 60 €/hour to "consolate" a little...
or better, to shoot a burst of banality that I could shoot too much less... :frown:

I think almost nobody writes assignment contracts, correct me if I'm wrong.

we do.
It says how much we pay you, how, when and what happens to you if you spread secrets, if you do chapels, if you don't deliver... .

 

[MBT]

I have the impression that we're discussing ourselves...
the interesting latita.. .

 

[Fulvio Romano]

I have the impression that we're discussing ourselves...
the interesting latita.. .

I have the impression that your impression is lawful.. .

 

[enri]

But having a game with the minimum regime is nothing expensive. if not billed, you pay nothing, if you use it, even little, you should keep it open.

there would be a minimum share of the archer (in the case of architects and engineers) if you are enrolled in the order, that is on the 300 euros per year, so I think one opens it if you use it, if not avoid.

 

[Fulvio Romano]

there would be a minimum share of the archer (in the case of architects and engineers) if you are enrolled in the order, that is on the 300 euros per year, so I think one opens it if you use it, if not avoid.

on this should be informed to the case of geometries, the archer is only for engineers and architects.
I am also dependent, so I do not pay it, because I am not enrolled.