new machinery and moulds directive

[robcrac]

Good morning.
In relation to the provisions of the new machinery directive, is a thermoplastic mold still to be considered as an equipment or as an almost machine? the mold can have hydraulic cylinders, an electrical circuit of power and control for hot rooms, pneumatic cylinders. . .
I am absolutely fasting on the subject. . .

 

[gerod]

We had already discussed it. qui even if it is not a plastic mold.
you have to see the object but it seems like a qm even if it could fall into the definition of machine (cylinders, power circuits and control, etc.)
It's obvious that if you need the press to work then it's qm.

to understand whether it comes back or not, give an eye to definitions.

 

[sharpo]

[CUT]

Good morning.
In relation to the provisions of the new machinery directive, is a thermoplastic mold still to be considered as an equipment or as an almost machine? the mold can have hydraulic cylinders, an electrical circuit of power and control for hot rooms, pneumatic cylinders. . .
I am absolutely fasting on the subject. . .

vedo se trovo qualcosa

 

[Windows_Expert]

Hi.

Knowing how our politicians think, I can tell you the following things:


"Stay away from the machine directive, consider the mold an equipment"


when an object is considered "machine" you are sure that the way you pay something find it.


For example, you have to produce a technical file that describes it.. .
For example, they may ask you to dispose of it in a particular way. . .


Hi.

 

[gerod]

Hi.
Knowing how our politicians think, I can tell you the following things:
"Stay away from the machine directive, consider the mold an equipment"
when an object is considered "machine" you are sure that the way you pay something find it.
For example, you have to produce a technical file that describes it.. .
For example, they may ask you to dispose of it in a particular way. . .
Hi.

I don't agree with you. It is not possible to decide whether to stay away from the machine directive because it wants it, it can only do so because it is outside the scope of the directive itself.
an interchangeable equipment is part of the machine directive and you can't pretend anything because pretending nothing (considering the mold a equipment) is a painful (uncompressed) action and therefore ... I leave the conclusions to you.

Be careful. Of course the machine directive has many gaps, it is not clear but at least when things are clear, we do not do the tricks.
Hi.

 

[Windows_Expert]

I don't agree with you. It is not possible to decide whether to stay away from the machine directive because it wants it, it can only do so because it is outside the scope of the directive itself.
an interchangeable equipment is part of the machine directive and you can't pretend anything because pretending nothing (considering the mold a equipment) is a painful (uncompressed) action and therefore ... I leave the conclusions to you.

Be careful. Of course the machine directive has many gaps, it is not clear but at least when things are clear, we do not do the tricks.
Hi.

premise
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have experience of 9 years of ce marking of products and directives low voltage and electromagnetic compatibility.

European standards are very restrictive because we want to keep Chinese products away from Europe.

very restrictive results in high costs for the manufacturer who has to read the rules, produce documentation and other costs.

in America are smarter: the rules are lighter, but there are duties for foreign products.


my experience
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I can tell you by direct experience that the same norm can be interpreted in different ways. Usually, accredited entities and laboratories agree with the client (who supplied the product specifications) the tests and content of the technical file. The responsibility is always the producer.


if a product creates harm to a person, the criminal case automatically snaps, even if the product complies with all the rules of the world.

morality of the fairy tale, it is better to make insurance and interpret the norm in a reasonable way, thinking about the wallet.

 

[gerod]

agree with you on your last post.
norms are interpretable, but laws cannot be by-passed. I just wanted to say that the machine directive (as well as the bt, emc, ped, atex, etc.) cannot be elusive if an object falls completely into the definitions.
then that in America they are smarter I would say that I agree even if, generally, they look more like bt and emc rather than mechanical aspects.
I have recently followed a csa certification and I must say that it is not so "difficult".
Of course they cost!
the European problem is that the declaration of conformity is a self-declaration and therefore often the complete technical dossier is missing, there is no risk analysis; in other words of clear false!
my personal experience (on product directives): where there is the obligation of a notified body or a third party that checks, then it does everything; in other cases only 10% do things as you should.

Of course that then competition comes and does what it wants. You should learn from Americans... increase costs but also increase safety!

 

[sharpo]

We had already discussed it. qui even if they are not Ice molds plastic.
you have to see the object but it seems like a qm even if it could fall into the definition of machine (cylinders, power circuits and control, etc.)
It's obvious that if you need the press to work then it's qm.

to understand whether it comes back or not, give an eye to definitions.

The car directives are a mess.

 

[gerod]

The car directives are a mess.

the machine directive!!! There are no machine directives unless you put us in atec, ped, lwd, emc...

I disagree with your statement. If you chew a little directive you would probably find the easiest thing about what it is: there are the technical standards that tell you how to do it! Unfortunately few know them and few use them!

 

[meccanicamg]

Machinery Directive 2006/42/ce:
machine: set of components of which one at least mobile that works with force other than the human (laughs)
near macchina: set of components that alone are not able to spider a well determined application (I know my interpretation is all the complete mold of cylinders and electrical system, since the mold without the injection mold does nothing)
interchangeable equipment: device that after commissioning a machine modifies function (carrello or part of mould that makes the product shape change)

 

[Uni_Mo]

the machine directive!!! ... there are technical standards that tell you how to do it! Unfortunately few know them and few use them!

I agree fully. the first step perhaps can be take a look ( careful reading?) at the guide on the machine directive already mentioned in other forum posts.

costs for the manufacturer? Of course I am! as gerod says, but also security increases and that cannot be joked.
costs... but how many exorbitant costs/efficiencies are there in a company that can be "belowed" or totally eliminated? :frown:

 

[paolino]

Machinery Directive 2006/42/ce:
machine: set of components of which one at least mobile that works with force other than the human (laughs)
near macchina: set of components that alone are not able to spider a well determined application (I know my interpretation is all the complete mold of cylinders and electrical system, since the mold without the injection mold does nothing)
interchangeable equipment: device that after commissioning a machine modifies function (carrello or part of mould that makes the product shape change)

difficult to blame this post... but do you realize that some moulders have applied the dm to the moulds they design/realize?

 

[gerod]

difficult to blame this post... but do you realize that some moulders have applied the dm to the moulds they design/realize?

beautiful question, usually consider them as components even if I have a lot of doubts.
You have to do an analysis of the object and then decide where they are.
I see them as almost-machines because I have already discussed the object with those who build them but ... they do not feel us.
Hi.

 

[Uni_Mo]

I thought... There are no guidelines for industry associations (ucimu, ...).
and abroad what do they do?

 

[andreaiseo]

we design and build molds and have failed to comply with the certification body because we did not have all the technical files and manuals of the molds that were considered by them almost machines. . .

 

[gerod]

almost machines, interchangeable equipment or anything, the file must be there.
if they are almost machines we talk about relevant technical documentation... if you have written technical file do them a non-compliance!