3d for suction systems

[ECCLETO]

Bye to all,
It's my first post, so I apologize for any mistakes.
work in a company that makes suction plants and inside is still used a 2d software called gbg (of cadlab) that does not exist practically any more on the market. by self-taught I "converted" to the autocad and normally use the 2006 version.
I would like to make a leap forward and start working on the 3d but I am browsing with thick fog regarding which software to use.
Since from the forum I see that different of you have a lot of experience on piping, I would like to ask you a tip.
our plants are rather simple (it is not a true piping type gas/oleoducts, at most there are 4-5 lines of pipes with diameters ranging from d.200 to d. 1000 ca) but I would like to create a library with my 20/30 diameters of galvanized tubes that are usually used, curves, branches, hoppers, joint clamps, etc.)
would be fantastic then implement in 3d also other components such as silos, sleeve filters, fans etc.
then the maximum could be to have a list of materials (mt of tube d.xxx, n° of curves d.yyy etc.)
I have recently seen the mep 2012 but it gives me the idea that it is not the suitable software being generic for planters of all kinds (electrical, hydraulic and conditioning plants)
I realize that our sector is a niche, but I suppose I'm not the only one who dreams of software like I mean it, indeed it probably exists and someone here in the forum maybe already talked about it.
What would you recommend?
I thank you in advance for the attention and take the opportunity to greet all the participants of the forum.
Mauritius

 

[cacciatorino]

What would you recommend?
I thank you in advance for the attention and take the opportunity to greet all the participants of the forum.
Mauritius

Given the low variability of the components, maybe you'd like a common-use parametric mechanical cad without going to shake specific pining tools.

Since I know it, I recommend solid edge that you can try for free (the student version whose files are incompatible with the commercial version), it is easily parametrizable and historically very performing in sheet metal developments.

 

[ECCLETO]

thanks hunter for the answer, but I think it is more convenient to create 3d blocks directly to autocad rather than start from scratch on a modeling sofware.
And besides, I'm interested in understanding if any of my business has already been involved with the 3d and how. for example autodesk mep someone used it for suction plants?

 

[cacciatorino]

but I think that then it is more convenient to create 3d blocks directly to autocad, rather than start from scratch on a modeling sofware.

If you say something like that, you probably never used an evolved 3D so you don't realize the sea of time that will save you once you create a sufficient library of parts.

Bye.

 

[re_solidworks]

If you say something like that, you probably never used an evolved 3D so you don't realize the sea of time that will save you once you create a sufficient library of parts.

Bye.

quoto hunter,

between the parametric cads to autocad there is no comparison. I would recommend you to see also solidworks, a little less performing than solidedge in the table (as much as hunter using them entrmbi) but very fast in modeling if used in multibody mode. This comes from a great boost to modeling and becomes a kind of simple topdown to use.
a demo of a couple of systems costs nothing, before jumping on autocad I would go to evaluate at least solidworks, solidedge, inventor and creo2.

 

[numero1]

thanks hunter for the answer, but I think it is more convenient to create 3d blocks directly to autocad rather than start from scratch on a modeling sofware.
And besides, I'm interested in understanding if any of my business has already been involved with the 3d and how. for example autodesk mep someone used it for suction plants?

Four or five lines are really little stuff, but it would be better to start with the right foot.
If you want to stay attached to the autocad world, I have recently seen this program in demonstration:http://www.esain.com/index.htmthat is practically a very nice autocad plug-in to see, I stressed sellers, and it looks really small but powerful.
but I never used it live.
Otherwise there are several open discussions on the forum for piping and related sw.
For example: http://www.cad3d.it/forum1/showthread.php?1866-recuperato-acquisto-cad-3d-per-piping
ciao

 

[Parametric_Ozzy]

Since from the forum I see that different of you have a lot of experience on piping, I would like to ask you a tip.
our plants are rather simple (it is not a true piping type gas/oleoducts, at most there are 4-5 lines of pipes with diameters ranging from d.200 to d. 1000 ca) but I would like to create a library with my 20/30 diameters of galvanized tubes that are usually used, curves, branches, hoppers, joint clamps, etc.)
would be fantastic then implement in 3d also other components such as silos, sleeve filters, fans etc.
then the maximum could be to have a list of materials (mt of tube d.xxx, n° of curves d.yyy etc.)
I have recently seen the mep 2012 but it gives me the idea that it is not the suitable software being generic for planters of all kinds (electrical, hydraulic and conditioning plants)

all things very feasible even with creo that has both in the basic license features already prepared for this kind of activity, and more vertical extensions if you really want to go to a thousand then (piping & cabling).
One thing not to be underestimated is the computing power for big assemblies, if as you say tomorrow you would like to implement other parts (silos,ventilators,etc), then you have to have a sw that allows you to open and manage this part lightly, otherwise you pay too much detail for the time of regeneration of the parametric.
are available for other info, a demo a presentation and what else you need.
greetings

 

[ECCLETO]

Bye to all,
I would like to add an image to better explain what you normally prepare as a drawing for suction plants. It is almost always a 2d design and as you can see it draws very few lines (1-2-3-4 max).
what I asked in this discussion was a advice on which sw to use to "transform" a design like this in 3d and above all create a library of pieces (tubi-curve-tee etc.) of different diameters. for example you can see the different branchings at 2 or 3 routes that have n combinations of diameters: How can I treat her? Is there a sw that automatically adapts the size of the piece, changing the inserted data of the diameters?

 

[cacciatorino]

Is there a sw that automatically adapts the size of the piece, changing the inserted data of the diameters?

This makes it a little all the 3d currently on the market: You just have to waste some time doing the initial setup, but then that time you take it back with interest.

 

[ECCLETO]

This makes it a little all the 3d currently on the market: You just have to waste some time doing the initial setup, but then that time you take it back with interest.

but I recommend you for the type of application I do, what could be the most suitable? something that has to do with piping, or does it not serve anything?

 

[Tristan]

If you want to stay on autocad base I recommend you try autocad mep. there would also be autocad plant 3d but spend 10,000€ to draw 4 tubes I don't find a good idea...

 

[calacc]

Bye to all,
our plants are rather simple (it is not a true piping type gas/oleoducts, at most there are 4-5 lines of pipes with diameters ranging from d.200 to d. 1000 ca) but I would like to create a library with my 20/30 diameters of galvanized tubes that are usually used, curves, branches, hoppers, joint clamps, etc.)
would be fantastic then implement in 3d also other components such as silos, sleeve filters, fans etc.
then the maximum could be to have a list of materials (mt of tube d.xxx, n° of curves d.yyy etc.)

from what I have seen more than 3d you care more about the configuration power, in the case of the plants in question.

I've been to design 3d for about 3 years. I think parametric of the ptc and I found myself very well in creating the configurations of the products thanks to a very performing tool called family table.
Thanks to this powerful tool it is very easy to create parts and/or assemblies by managing quotas and parameters with excel tables.

in this video an example of a nut. same thing clearly you can do for any particular like pipes, curves, joints etc...
also create multi-level tables of parts and/or assemblies.

 

[calacc]

in this other video a similar example of use of family tables relative however to the latest release version, i.e. create parametric 2.0
[youtube]nrtq2eq0u8[/youtube]

 

[calacc]

If you want to stay on autocad basis...

look, as a friend (and I say as a friend!!!). I strongly recommend any autodesk product.
In my opinion it is too slow and heavy software. I don't know.
and I tell you after working with autocad and inventor; It just doesn't stand the comparison with creo.

 

[ECCLETO]

from what I have seen more than 3d you care more about the configuration power, in the case of the plants in question.

I've been to design 3d for about 3 years. I think parametric of the ptc and I found myself very well in creating the configurations of the products thanks to a very performing tool called family table.
Thanks to this powerful tool it is very easy to create parts and/or assemblies by managing quotas and parameters with excel tables.

in this video an example of a nut. same thing clearly you can do for any particular like pipes, curves, joints etc...
also create multi-level tables of parts and/or assemblies.

calacc, very interesting videos. I'd like to ask you more about creo: for example, pretend that instead of the dice I have a tube with d.500 mm and l=1000mm. how does the program work to draw some 3d lines (as in the drawing I had attached, that is in 2d but imagine to transform it into 3d) what should I do, create a library with tubes (and other components) of each diameter and then "build" lines composing piece on piece? Can I use a sort of "button" style copy paste library and drag the components on the line? i.e. the basic question is which program speeds me the construction of the lines (including tubes, curves, different diameters tees) since if I have understood well almost all the parametric sw make me build the single piece more or less quickly, and that in the end I think every software creates me this hypothetical library of components? Tell me if I'm wrong. Thank you.

 

[calacc]

I don't think there's one answer. Firstly I would say that with I create everything you have listed you can absolutely do!

if the question was: "what steps do you take to quickly build lines? I couldn't respond so on two feet because I should know better about your internal work-flow... I don't care about piping.

the first approach that comes to mind for a design of that type is to create a 3d layout based on parametric sketches (a kind of oxatura to mean us), then clearly covering everything with library components (tubes, curves, reductions etc... previously modeled).
Finally, I would put the technical drawing part and the distinct base of the parts of the plant (exportable clearly towards excel, to make it processed for example from the purchasing office). all this you can do with the basic module (as also announced by ozzy).

then if your work is all concentrated here, personally I would not hesitate to evaluate even some nice extension! in this regard you can add to creo parametric also the PCx that allows to speed up the whole process of development of the plant.
the beautiful thing of creo is that it is completely scalable upward in case of need. Maybe you start by purchasing the basic module, then when there is the need you implement the additional packages later to reduce the time to market. is a very customizable product that adapts to the needs and dimensions of the company.

If you want to see some videos just go up youtube And there's what you want.

 

[numero1]

if eccleto wants to draw piping at high level (and it does not seem to me this the case) must use pds (now sp3d) or pdms.
with these sw, he's making us a whole plant, but let's talk about so many money, and they're not easy to learn.
and models directly in space.
Moreover they are the + used (probably along with cadmatic) at international level .......
and also have modules for hvac pipelines.
but I repeat, it's so much money, it's hard to get it......... .
Did you see my post on page 1 of this 3ad?
Hi.

 

[Parametric_Ozzy]

I repeat for me it is enough a creo parametric with the creo schematics that guides the p&id at a two-dimensional level for the 3d drafting of the pipes, without spending a chain of money and going on sw too vertical, I do not think eccleto makes hallucinating plants.
greetings

 

[ECCLETO]

Did you see my post on page 1 of this 3ad?
Hi.

number1 I've dealt with your post on page1 and I think the exemplary program piping 2d and/or 3d is the one closest to my needs.
I can't compare this product with the others you recommend (e.g. create) but I will try to find more information about this of the bait.
What do you think? Do you have any idea the costs?

 

[numero1]

seemed good, I asked the company guy to get him to do everything and + and he, with a notebook (serio) did.
and it seemed with some ease...
the only menata is to set up well the bookstores at the beginning.
I know it's not very expensive, but exactly the price I don't know, I've just been busy giving a technical assessment.
then:
1) is compatible with autocad
2) has the hvac part (or are developing it)
3) is ok for medium/small plants
Hi.