responsibility by organigram

[TECNOMODEL]

Good morning, everyone.
the company for which work is certified iso 9001, therefore there is an organgram that defines the various functions.

in this I result in design and technical office.
I have no autonomy for the design because it is the owner, who is the general manager, who decides.

in this situation that I have legal responsibility?

Do I have to demand that the organization be changed?

 

[PierArg]

for tasks and responsibilities you should refer to the company quality manual.

If you are a technical director, you also have civil/penal liability as you "represent" the company and you are, in all cases, a substitute for the legal representative.

 

[gerod]

you need to refer especially to your employment contract.
if the iso 9001 (voluntary, let us remember) frames you as responsible for something you must understand if you actually do what is written.
Legally, you answer your actions.
you are covered by corporate insurance unless the company has adequate coverage (be careful then) and you have to answer something ... but it is remote enough that you have to pay.
on the penalty you answer what you do according to your tasks, responsibilities and also to the organization (power of decision, etc.).
Therefore, if you are a designer and you just have the responsibility of designer but you are still covered by the above, especially if it has decision-making power.
I do not agree with pierarg that you are the substitute of the legal representative as the pyramid of responsibility does not change. Who's up there anyway answers the company! responsibilities are combined in tasks and tasks, in portfolio, in power of decision.
If a project is wrong and something happens, it is sure that the first to be investigated is the head that is at the top, then the others come but in proportion to the job.
If my employee is wrong, I always answer and I pay! I had to check!

 

[TECNOMODEL]

you need to refer especially to your employment contract.
if the iso 9001 (voluntary, let us remember) frames you as responsible for something you must understand if you actually do what is written.
Legally, you answer your actions.
you are covered by corporate insurance unless the company has adequate coverage (be careful then) and you have to answer something ... but it is remote enough that you have to pay.
on the penalty you answer what you do according to your tasks, responsibilities and also to the organization (power of decision, etc.).
Therefore, if you are a designer and you just have the responsibility of designer but you are still covered by the above, especially if it has decision-making power.
I do not agree with pierarg that you are the substitute of the legal representative as the pyramid of responsibility does not change. Who's up there anyway answers the company! responsibilities are combined in tasks and tasks, in portfolio, in power of decision.
If a project is wrong and something happens, it is sure that the first to be investigated is the head that is at the top, then the others come but in proportion to the job.
If my employee is wrong, I always answer and I pay! I had to check!

Thank you very much for the answer.
we say that my concern is not so much about the product when put on the market, in that case we do the necessary tests and therefore we are quiet.

but things change.
the boss invents unlikely solutions, then we make them and test on the test bench.
Is that what worries me, if a colleague of mine has an injury because a piece breaks, comes out oil or anything that I have?
in case of injury there is an investigation, both from the asl and the carabinieri.
How is my position?

 

[TECNOMODEL]

copy from the quality manual the definition of the responsibility of the design area:

the design function refers to the general direction, has the responsibility of:
di planning design and development activities;
; define organizational and technical interfaces;
di identify and document the basic design data and requirements;
re verify and review design results;
. verify that the product meets the specific needs of the user.


first known that "refers to the general direction". What does that mean?

then there is that "verify and review the results of the design". Therefore it is my task to assess the validity of a solution/project. therefore also responsibility in case of problems?

 

[gerod]

Are you talking about injuries? ?
on this responsibility must be sought according to the tasks, etc. often the contract of work does not center but center what you do at the level of safety. If you think something is dangerous, but your boss says it's just like this, you'll have to prove your position (maybe with paper/mail).

 

[TECNOMODEL]

Are you talking about injuries? ?
on this responsibility must be sought according to the tasks, etc. often the contract of work does not center but center what you do at the level of safety. If you think something is dangerous, but your boss says it's just like this, you'll have to prove your position (maybe with paper/mail).

I make an example: the head decides to make a component with a thickness x and subpo it to y bar pressure.
I verify and realize that it is undersized with risk of breaking. mark it, but the answer is "as I say."

we go to the test bench and the component breaks, with loss of oil in pressure and pieces that splash in every place.
My partner working at the counter is hit. who is responsible?

 

[gerod]

the judge decides!
generally of the employer, then cascade!
Why should we break up? Is there no protection system to avoid this?
Hi.

 

[MBT]

I make an example: the head decides to make a component with a thickness x and subpo it to y bar pressure.
I verify and realize that it is undersized with risk of breaking. mark it, but the answer is "as I say."

we go to the test bench and the component breaks, with loss of oil in pressure and pieces that splash in every place.
My partner working at the counter is hit. who is responsible?

Halt!
You've already gone further.
You draw, the boss controls, the manager approves. all clear, I would say
There's a problem, you signal, the boss signals, the responsible Sand. of who is the "colp" of the manager, it seems to me clearly (of course the signal must be demonstrated)
Well, let's go to the "problematic" test (and let's remember that you manifestly reported the problem)
the head-collaudi from the piece to the tester and this the head
the piece breaks and hurts the tester
question: why did you get hurt?
answer: because the piece was wrong!
error... it was wrong because the test was incorrectly executed, without the necessary security measures so that the tester does not hurt!
Therefore, depending on what has actually happened (and will assess the judge on the basis of the periciousnesses), the responsibility may be of the tester (it has not applied the necessary safety measures), of the head-collaudi (it has not given/present information necessary to operate safely), of the rspp (it has not verified that everything is done in safety) or perhaps of the project manager (it has omitted important information on the dangerousness of the piece)

 

[TECNOMODEL]

Halt!
You've already gone further.
You draw, the boss controls, the manager approves. all clear, I would say
There's a problem, you signal, the boss signals, the responsible Sand. of who is the "colp" of the manager, it seems to me clearly (of course the signal must be demonstrated)
quotas)

All right, all right.
but who is responsible? who is in organigram in the design function or the general manager that is what makes the decision?

for the rest I agree with you that there must be a security system that avoids accidents, but if then the same happens to be in the group of those "invested" to ascertain the responsibilities does not please.

Also because, I repeat, I mark it the risk but then the boss does go on the same thing.

 

[TECNOMODEL]

I forgot another thing: how does the signal prove?

I carry out calculations or fem analysis, then mark it in voice and in the project report the thing. But if it is not taken into consideration I struggle to prove that I had reported it.

 

[gerod]

but if your calculations are right and there is a problem = it is evident that there is something wrong.
of course you signal the thing in writing that is better.
but your superior is still what closes the circle.... Power games!

 

[TECNOMODEL]

but if your calculations are right and there is a problem = it is evident that there is something wrong.
of course you signal the thing in writing that is better.
but your superior is still what closes the circle.... Power games!

It's just that "your superior" that's not clear:

in organigram there is the general direction, under the various business areas including design with my name indicated.
under the design there is the technical office (still my name) and the testing department.

does the general direction respond to what is done by the design?
he can always say "it is he who designed, the responsibility is his.

I have no way to prove that the decisions take the lead.

 

[Er Presidente]

I make an example: the head decides to make a component with a thickness x and subpo it to y bar pressure.
I verify and realize that it is undersized with risk of breaking. mark it, but the answer is "as I say."

we go to the test bench and the component breaks, with loss of oil in pressure and pieces that splash in every place.
My partner working at the counter is hit. who is responsible?

the test bench serves to test a component of which you do not have the certainty of behavior. If you have to subject yourself to a pressure test it is necessary to build the counter so that if the test component fails, no one gets hurt, no matter how the test piece has been measured.
It's not that if the piece is well designed, then I can think of it different because "so the pieces don't break," the pieces break, for sure, the problem is only when.
Moreover, when a piece of paper comes out of a technical office, it enters into a different reality, the workshop, the laboratory, which must have its managers (production, testing or whatever), who are responsible for how the tests take place.
If I project a piece is not said to be able to handle the test. I do the example of the destructive tests of helmets or windscreen, designing a helmet or windscreen is one thing, designing the car and testing it is another world.
So you try the pieces, and it's commendable, so regardless of how they are designed, they can go well or badly, the sitema must be sized for the worst hypothesis to the responsibility of those who take it.

p.s.: if the general manager wants to size the pieces to the dog cock add a box to the signatures of the drawings "final approval" and let them sign....

 

[MBT]

Halt!
You've already gone further.
You draw, the boss controls, the manager approves. all clear, I would say
There's a problem, you signal, the boss signals, the responsible Sand. of who is the "colp" of the manager, it seems to me clearly (of course the signal must be demonstrated)

All right, all right.
but who is responsible? who is in organigram in the design function or the general manager that is what makes the decision?

for the rest I agree with you that there must be a security system that avoids accidents, but if then the same happens to be in the group of those "invested" to ascertain the responsibilities does not please.

Also because, I repeat, I mark it the risk but then the boss does go on the same thing.

Again. . .
designed -> he who makes drawing, calculations, and possibly even mistakes
controlled -> he who looks at the design, controls the calculations and filters the mistakes
approved -> he who looks at large lines the drawings, for tops he sees the calculations and says that everything is okay or sends back if something is not right.

now, once again.. .
you made calculations, drawings and reported a problem
the technician, even if it is you, controls the drawings and points out that they are not correct
If the apetrator pushes his hand and says, "go on like this," who puts his ass on it?
who noticed the mistakes or who forced his hand and sent everything forward?

If you were the judge, objectively, who would you send to jail?

 

[TECNOMODEL]

If I were the judge... .

unfortunately we are in Italy

 

[gerod]

as colleagues say, you do yours, report (do the calculations but you will also have to say whether the thing is ok or not; then write it on a relationship).
then whoever approves takes responsibility for what he does. point.
the judge bases his decisions on facts and cards as well as on the pyramid of responsibility.
Clearly.

 

[TECNOMODEL]

first of all I thank you all for the answers.

However, I believe that the problem has been lost.
what I'm trying to understand is whether, since my name is in the organizational design function like other managers and under the general direction alone, approval is my task/responsibility or not.

Is it true that there is only the general direction above me but where is it written that it is the latter to make technical decisions during the project?

If he wakes up one morning and says that the responsibilities are mine as I demonstrate that the decisions he took her?

 

[MBT]

He'll give you a letter of office, right?
He doesn't say it.
and from that moment on, if you are responsible (and you put on your ass), then both your honors (if everything is okay) and the charges (if something is wrong). But from that moment you can also say "this is not the fo, because it is not technically correct".
if you are imposed (and you must be able to prove it) again becomes the responsibility of those who imposed it

 

[numero1]

He'll give you a letter of office, right?
He doesn't say it.

No... I knew how many things I did in the voice of

and from that moment on, if you are responsible (and you put on your ass), then both your honors (if everything is okay) and the charges (if something is wrong). But from that moment you can also say "this is not the fo, because it is not technically correct".
if you are imposedand you must prove) again becomes the responsibility of those who imposed it

This is precisely the part in bold that criticism :mixed: how do you prove it?
Good evenings and good night to all.