first use choice board (mechanical designer)

[Frank_Pa]

Good morning to all,

I have had the fortune (as they tell me very rare these days) to be able to choose between two different proposals of work. One is a small reality (about 30 employees) that designs, assembles and installs packaging machines (mainly on orders), I should perceive as net about 1300 euros per month and the intake is subordinate to a 5 month trial period, the other is a prestigious research institute, the contract is long time determined (2 years to about 1800 euros per month).both interviews seemed very technical, I would be framed as a designer I have knowledge of the world of work almost zero, given that so far I have passed from one stage to another, and I would like to do everything of course not to find myself in bad situations (that maybe I could avoid if I had experience/majesty on how the world of work works and how they reason those who hire me when proposing these types of contract:mixed: ) what would you recommend to a neolaureated mechanical designer who has so much desire to learn and to undertake this path of professional growth? Have you had similar experiences in the past?

thanks in advance for the answers and for the interest

 

[ceschi1959]

provided that the job act provides that the indefinite time is very watered compared to the past'the decree provides that, in case of dismissal without justified reason objective, the employer must pay the employee a compensation equal to two months of salary for each year of work in the company, from a minimum of 4 to a maximum of 6 months of compensation for companies with less than 15 employees and from 12 months to 24 months of compensation for companies with more than 15 employees'evaluate these aspects:
the actual level of intake 5° 6° etc.
as the salary is composed (mensiality, production premiums, variable odds etc.)
another aspect that few know is the following for fixed-term contracts:In the case of resigns submitted by the worker, the same can be resigned only in the presence of a just cause that does not allow the prosecution even provisional of the working relationship. the worker will pay the wages provided for until the expiry of the contract, in addition to the recognition of compensation for any damage suffered for the conduct of the employer. It is not due to the substitution of notice. in case of unjust resignation, will be the employer to have the right to compensation for damagesIn this case, by configuring contractual failure.

 

[PierArg]

is the prestigious research institute public or private?

 

[cacciatorino]

often the researcher's path is uncertain as it goes on for time contracts hoping for a future stabilization. the skills that you acquire are then perhaps little appreciated by the world of industry so you could struggle to monetize in the future where you want to look for work out of research. Since you are very young maybe the economic speech you could keep it in the background and choose what you like most, whether to do the researcher or the designer.

 

[Frank_Pa]

is the prestigious research institute public or private?

is a public institution

often the researcher's path is uncertain as it goes on for time contracts hoping for a future stabilization. the skills that you acquire are then perhaps little appreciated by the world of industry so you could struggle to monetize in the future where you want to look for work out of research. Since you are very young maybe the economic speech you could keep it in the background and choose what you like most, whether to do the researcher or the designer.

Let's say that, at least from what they have made me understand, I would not do just the researcher but the designer who supports the research and development department, I would take care of engineering/optimizing from the mechanical point of view of the solutions proposed by the research and development department (working in team). ..it certainly lacks that part of experience in the workshop that I would like to have but not even the other company has it in toto because it is limited to carrying out tests, pasteudi on the machines that you plan (it has however the assembly department). I have been somewhat doubtful about the question of "future spending" of the experience made in case I accepted that proposal (because it is still a question of mechanical design in high-tech or in sectors a little niche). .

I am not my priority now ... probably, or at least theoretically, a small company offers a lot more chances of technical growth for a person very devoted to work ... but I would not find myself, for reasons that do not depend on me, in 5 months of walk again looking for work. ..while we say on the other side it seemed to me to understand that I have a certain "certainty" that I will remain to acquire experience in the design for a couple of years...

 

[cacciatorino]

I am not my priority now ... probably, or at least theoretically, a small company offers a lot more chances of technical growth for a person very devoted to work ... but I would not find myself, for reasons that do not depend on me, in 5 months of walk again looking for work. ..while we say on the other side it seemed to me to understand that I have a certain "certainty" that I will remain to acquire experience in the design for a couple of years...

personal opinion:
If your goal is to do the mechanical designer, go to the small company, and when you have learned you will go into the great, and probably the economic improvements coming by changing tasks (from designer to project manager to head office etc etc.) and company. In the public research sector, the dynamics are usually ulta-lente, so I think of things you'll learn very little because maybe your boss will be a physics graduate who understands little about how to mount two bearings.
On the other hand, life is easier in the public research agency, in which Friday at 5 pm you go home, fall the world, and there are no deadlines or races against time, and maybe you will be in contact with the university environment and then dinners and exits one evening you and one no.
As I told you above the problem is that in the search for things you learn a few and all about research, that tomorrow will be very little interested in the mechanical company you will propose.

 

[Frank_Pa]

I thank you for your opinions/draws.. I will reflect a little more... from how the small company actually seems to have all the requirements to be a great environment in which to learn (I believe that if they are in 30 among engineers, programmers, assemblers and testers and the core business is the mechanical design of machinery I really find it difficult to believe that I can learn little or do little and nothing)... then maybe after a little time I suppose the power have you had experiences in a more or less similar reality?

 

[PierArg]

Hi, frank.
In practice hunting has literally told you what I think.
I would be for the little company all my life.

your situation is similar to what I planned when I was graduated and I had to choose between to continue in the university to do the PhD or accept a 6 month internship in a company (also add that I had to transfer).
Although it was the period in which the crisis began and the doctorate seemed the most appropriate choice (3 years guaranteed against 6 months and then six in limbo) chose the second path.

to today I thank heaven for taking the second road.

p.s: do not neglect the fact that today many companies collaborate with universities and therefore it is also a way to stay in touch with the academic environment. therefore the second choice does not compromise 100% the first

 

[haga78]

I do the opposite bastian and recommend you go to the state research institute (but 1800 euros are net or gross? ).
and I'm one who works in the company of 50 people.

this for a series of considerations of life lived, especially for the fact that in Italy there is no meritocracy.

in a company of 30 people undoubtedly learns so much from the practical point of view, you have to do, but the possibilities of developing professionally and economically are limited. becomes a manager if the current manager changes company or retires, but it may also be replaced by someone else (not you), maybe even outside. even the salary is what you can tear at the beginning, after you can have maybe something (perhaps, especially if the owner is the classic taccagno entrepreneur as often happens). risk that in 10 years you find yourself with the same assignments and the same money.
You learn a lot from the technical point of view, but over time you will lose your academic education, because the engineering you do in a company that makes production is aimed precisely to send forth the workshop (and hardly a company of 30 people has a research and development department).
without thinking, as they have already told you, that you will have to confront with impossible delivery times, you will have to do extraordinary (maybe not paid) perhaps every day, holidays 1 week in August (if you like). not that one does not want to work, but certain rhythms then wear and condition your private life.

in a state research institute the only inconvenience can be that training, in the sense that you remain very tied to academic education and from a practical point of view you will not have a chance to see much, but still you have an assignment that if even precarious is perhaps safer (in my company people hired indet time for more than 20 years have been put in mobility from today to tomorrow, in a public institution I think never happens), maybe you can grow in the years also

I repeat this because for my experience in the amazement of Italian companies to the burdens do not correspond the honors.

 

[Frank_Pa]

I do the opposite bastian and recommend you go to the state research institute (but 1800 euros are net or gross? ).
and I'm one who works in the company of 50 people.

the 1800 euros are net... in fact the thing surprised me a lot of these times (because I am not the nephew of anyone..)...the small company instead proposes me a 5 level metalmechanical. . .

As far as the research and development department is concerned, I don't think they have a dedicated department, but I don't know if it means they don't do it (on the site until some time ago there was an open position that explicitly cited "research and development" , and I think it referred to products). if I have to say how I have seen them I have seemed very close to the times and open to change (in some applications they used linear electric motors,roba that in the company where I am currently doing an internship, a large multinational, have been introduced in Italy and proposed as a solution only this year). .

 

[Max-C]

I do the opposite bastian and recommend you go to the state research institute (but 1800 euros are net or gross? ).
and I'm one who works in the company of 50 people.

this for a series of considerations of life lived, especially for the fact that in Italy there is no meritocracy.

in a company of 30 people undoubtedly learns so much from the practical point of view, you have to do, but the possibilities of developing professionally and economically are limited. becomes a manager if the current manager changes company or retires, but it may also be replaced by someone else (not you), maybe even outside. even the salary is what you can tear at the beginning, after you can have maybe something (perhaps, especially if the owner is the classic taccagno entrepreneur as often happens). risk that in 10 years you find yourself with the same assignments and the same money.
You learn a lot from the technical point of view, but over time you will lose your academic education, because the engineering you do in a company that makes production is aimed precisely to send forth the workshop (and hardly a company of 30 people has a research and development department).
without thinking, as they have already told you, that you will have to confront with impossible delivery times, you will have to do extraordinary (maybe not paid) perhaps every day, holidays 1 week in August (if you like). not that one does not want to work, but certain rhythms then wear and condition your private life.

in a state research institute the only inconvenience can be that training, in the sense that you remain very tied to academic education and from a practical point of view you will not have a chance to see much, but still you have an assignment that if even precarious is perhaps safer (in my company people hired indet time for more than 20 years have been put in mobility from today to tomorrow, in a public institution I think never happens), maybe you can grow in the years also

I repeat this because for my experience in the amazement of Italian companies to the burdens do not correspond the honors.

But as first experience I would always start from a small company with workshop attached if not internal. at least avoid firing certain cauliflowers to make the skin flatten or design pieces impossible to do to the milling, too expensive pieces etc... which then means redesigning everything and it's hours and stress... However one part from there then with some experience the big company calls you.. .
on the rhythms instead you are right, for almost all fields the designer has to sacrifice with hours of extraordinary maybe Saturday morning, revisions and climbers asking or pieces that do not mount. at first you do everything with the utmost desire and will but slowly for some the thing can become heavy.

 

[haga78]

the 1800 euros are net... in fact the thing surprised me a lot of these times (because I am not the nephew of anyone..)...the small company instead proposes me a 5 level metalmechanical. . .

As far as the research and development department is concerned, I don't think they have a dedicated department, but I don't know if it means they don't do it (on the site until some time ago there was an open position that explicitly cited "research and development" , and I think it referred to products). if I have to say how I have seen them I have seemed very close to the times and open to change (in some applications they used linear electric motors,roba that in the company where I am currently doing an internship, a large multinational, have been introduced in Italy and proposed as a solution only this year). .

If the 1800 euros are net there is nothing to think about, take flight.
You realize that in a private company, in addition to all the disadvantages it brings, a figure like that you see it maybe after 10 years, if (and I stress if) there are favourable circumstances, because otherwise you will remain firm on the initial pay (if you do not become responsible I see it hard).

about the advertised positions let alone what they say, I had seen an ad for designer long ago and when I went there they practically needed a factotum half worker (in reality neither the owner knew well what he wanted).

that you have to keep up with the times is clear, otherwise you can't stay on the market.

look for example what happened right now at max-c, initially contacted for a project manager posiz, then turned out to be a designer with extraordinary and savory, with the promise then you will see:
https://www.cad3d.it/forum1/threads/50527-assistente-project-manager

 

[Frank_Pa]

If the 1800 euros are net there is nothing to think about, take flight.
You realize that in a private company, in addition to all the disadvantages it brings, a figure like that you see it maybe after 10 years, if (and I stress if) there are favourable circumstances, because otherwise you will remain firm on the initial pay (if you do not become responsible I see it hard).

about the advertised positions let alone what they say, I had seen an ad for designer long ago and when I went there they practically needed a factotum half worker (in reality neither the owner knew well what he wanted).

that you have to keep up with the times is clear, otherwise you can't stay on the market.

look for example what happened right now at max-c, initially contacted for a project manager posiz, then turned out to be a designer with extraordinary and savory, with the promise then you will see:
https://www.cad3d.it/forum1/threads/50527-assistente-project-manager

Unfortunately it is not so (they had communicated me half history)..ieri I received the letter of engagement from the institute. I would come to that figure if I reach certain corporate goals...however the net minimum wage (without achieving goals) is 1600... anyway... let's say that if I were sure to stay in the institution after the end of the contract would be another speech.. but I am a little bit terrifying as I ask myself : within 2 years, if they leave me at home and don't renew me, I am able to find some other ... is a bit of a double-cut weapon:frown: ...

p.s I have read various discussions here on the forum and I am increasingly amazed at what happens ... we are in a beautiful country of cabbage:

 

[cacciatorino]

p.s I have read various discussions here on the forum and I am increasingly amazed at what happens ... we are in a beautiful country of cabbage:

not to be too pessimistic, consider that usually people who write are those to which things go wrong or that have a little positive attitude towards existence. Usually those who are happy write little, if the average mood was the one expressed on social in general then we would all be treated for depression

p.s. how targets are measured in the public research institute

 

[Frank_Pa]

thank you all,
In the end, despite the 1800s net, I think I'm going to get my bones in the small company hoping to become a good mechanical designer. . At the end, as a sector, I'm a little more passionate about it... we hope that so much trust is well placed (and that I don't just make a few models to the cad because I think there is a difference between designer and designer)... I'll keep you updated. Thanks for everything:redface:

 

[marcof]

I do the opposite bastian and recommend you go to the state research institute (but 1800 euros are net or gross? ).
and I'm one who works in the company of 50 people.
this for a series of considerations of lived life, particularly because there is no meritocracy in Italy.

It seems to me that the place where the lack of meritocracy is the public, and in particular the university world. I also speak for experiences lived, albeit indirectly, but with different people and from within.

 

[PierArg]

start from the small company and try to learn as much as possible.
in 2/3 years you will see that you will not want to renew because you will already have a better proposal.

 

[haga78]

not to be too pessimistic, consider that usually people who write are those to which things go wrong or that have a little positive attitude towards existence. Usually those who are happy write little, if the average mood was the one expressed on social in general then we would all be treated for depression

p.s. how targets are measured in the public research institute

or things go wrong to many, but now they are so addicted to not write anymore...

 

[haga78]

thank you all,
In the end, despite the 1800s net, I think I'm going to get my bones in the small company hoping to become a good mechanical designer. . At the end, as a sector, I'm a little more passionate about it... we hope that so much trust is well placed (and that I don't just make a few models to the cad because I think there is a difference between designer and designer)... I'll keep you updated. Thanks for everything:redface:

even if they had been 1600 euros, to start are a nice figure, that I think no other proposes.
then I am convinced (from what I could see directly) that trains that lead to beautiful places today do not pass almost any more, so when passing one you need to climb, otherwise you risk to stay on the track for a long time.

every way everyone does what you feel best to do, in luck and keep us updated!!! :finger: