contractual advice

[TECNOMODEL]

After a substantially negative experience in the current company I finally find myself evaluating a new job offer.
in this company I would replace the current designer who changes company, taking responsible design duties, coordination suppliers, coordination of internal workshop etc.
in the current company, in theory, I would have had the same role. In practice, I found myself unable to make any decisions in any area but to have to carry out high and imaginative hypotheses of the old owner despite the same were clearly wrong.
the situation continues now that the owner is less present in the company, I have no autonomy because the decisions take her son of the owner who is even less competent than the father.
Now I would like to avoid, if I choose to accept the offer, to find myself in the same condition.
How can you shelter yourself from such situations?
I thought of a contract, or something like that, in which to put in writing responsibility and tasks in addition to expressing the autonomy of the role.
However, if it is feasible to protect itself against the lack of respect for the same?
Is there a penalty for which, in view of the lack of respect for the agreement, the worker is paid a figure?
other ideas?

 

[gil]

In theory you can integrate the national collective contract with all the clauses you can accept, you can put all the encyclopedia treccani, but in the substance you cannot have certainties.

because especially in small companies the owners keep us always having the last word.
in large companies, depends on how the working group works.

therefore if your boss / superior says that he wants donkeys flying, you will have to do those, otherwise at least, you will have his dystima, regardless of your contract.

 

[ninfh]

I would first offer a dinner or beer or even just a coffee to the designer that you should go to replace. . . .

just to see what the company thinks and how it works, maybe you're lucky and wants to vent a little bit

 

[TECNOMODEL]

I would first offer a dinner or beer or even just a coffee to the designer that you should go to replace. . . .

just to see what the company thinks and how it works, maybe you're lucky and wants to vent a little bit

already contacted by phone, also because in that company I worked there a long time ago and the designer in question arrived that I was still in the company.
I'm looking for a way to protect myself......

 

[ingmex]

autonomy goes hand in hand with responsibility. if at the end of the accounts the responsibility remains to the holder (or manager of division, etc.) it is right that it is his last word. and if you are not an executive, with signature power and relative budget, you have no responsibility, regardless of the degree of study or whether you sign or not drawings. so either you have a contract as a technical manager (but given the size of the company I don't think) or I don't think you can actually have real autonomy.

 

[TECNOMODEL]

autonomy goes hand in hand with responsibility. if at the end of the accounts the responsibility remains to the holder (or manager of division, etc.) it is right that it is his last word. and if you are not an executive, with signature power and relative budget, you have no responsibility, regardless of the degree of study or whether you sign or not drawings. so either you have a contract as a technical manager (but given the size of the company I don't think) or I don't think you can actually have real autonomy.

by autonomy I mean in design choices, in the organization of work, in the management of suppliers.
to give you an example, in the company where I am now had to "design" a system in which the 250 bar oil seal was guaranteed by the fillet only, because the holder claimed that by pulling the thread this leans on the sides of the screw and mother-in-law and is kept stagnant.
Obviously when we mounted the component came out oil in quantity, but I had to draw and realize this st....
I would like to avoid finding myself again in such a situation.

 

[ingmex]

I understand very well that this can be annoying. But in the end, even if you know it's a boy, but your boss wants it like that, you have to do it like that, there's little to do. use his resources (your time that pays him, the software that pays him, etc.), so he decides how to employ them. Then there are leaders who understand and delegate to those who know and understand that they want to have the last word, but still the result of these choices falls on them.

 

[TECNOMODEL]

true, but doing something knowing in advance that it will be wrong and will not work out gives me a feeling of huge stupidity.
because it is true that the resources are his and the money also, but then if the company goes in rage to make ca...te those who put us back we are then dependent, unlike the boss who has the c... parato.
So even more I feel stupid working like that.
However, returning to the question of the post, I would like to find a way to clarify who will have to make some decisions.
It is important that I be protected in case the company does not respect the agreement.

 

[ninfh]

I doubt there is some legal form that makes sense to manage these things

In the end, it's part of the collaboration relationship between people, in the contract, you can also put who has to do what like and when, then if it's not respected what happens? Do you go legal? ......

because it is true that the resources are his and the money also, but then if the company goes in rage to make ca...te those who put us back we are then dependent, unlike the boss who has the c... parato.

Um... I've stopped working as an employee for a few years mainly because I wanted to work in my own way... and if there's any problem, those with my butt parade are the employees not me...
If a car doesn't work out is my fault, not the employee who wrote 100 instead of 10 on a measure.

It's horrible to draw pieces when you're convinced that it's not the right choice or that they're really wrong, but who decides is who pays (more or less)
you can propose alternative solutions and document everything, but if you can't convince that your idea is better....amen

 

[TECNOMODEL]

the employees will have the c... parato regarding the responsibilities, and we would miss that they have no decision-making autonomy.
But those who remain without work are them.... .
a practical example lived in the first person:
manufacturer of motorcycle chassis, over 200 employees. the owner does a lot of shit, so much to be condemned for bankrupt frudolenta.
result? the employees at home, some are so far and the failure is of 2011, the owner continues to live in the villa on the hills and did not cum 1 euro.
He only has this conviction that he has resolved with nothing, because the jail has not even seen it from outside.

 

[Meteor02]

technology
don't worry too much about the owners, in every medium small company there is a master who puts the bill everywhere, in every medium-sized company you find the imbecile superior (which is perhaps worse), at least the owner if it is wrong to stop us from his economically and penally. in emilia then if you lose your job with your experience you should not struggle to find another one running there are more printers and tools than mosquitoes.

 

[gil]

I speak for my modest experience.
I believe that the general address of each project is set by a few people, managers or owners, not by the technical office. It works so in every company, without exception, thinking differently is a utopia that will end infrangesi.

if managers have the skills, or rely on competent consultants, probably that will be a successful company. otherwise it will go in malora or however will be lost in mediocrity.

in any case the designer can only try to work for people who think they make the right choices, to have satisfactions, and not to be with the ass by air. Otherwise, even if you're ros brawn will tell you that of formula 1 car you don't understand a tube.

so every contract post is equally utopia, put all the integrations you want. but if you choose the new company should be because you believe in that company and think it is and will be successful. but, in any case, if an executive arrives who will want to make pressure tanks with the pesta card, there will be no contract that can save you.

 

[rero]

my personal experience leads me to fully share the words of the last post of gil

 

[tizibrembi]

good morning, I am 55 years old and from 37 work in technical environment (plant planning and then mechanical planning) , also for my modest experience, fully support the thoughts of gil and rero.
Good day to all

 

[TECNOMODEL]

thank you all for the answers.
finding something like what you described would be great.
so that you speak of a general address, and we are fully aware that these decisions are made by those who put money on it.
Unfortunately in the last two experiences I found myself with an intrusion in my very marked work.
in the previous place I found myself "combat" with people with very little technical knowledge that decided how to make a mold. many times when I discussed why the setting was wrong, I predicted the defects of the pieces that punctually occurred but despite that these characters kept deciding (and wrong).
then I went to the current company, different sector. Here I found an octogenary that has always taken care of the commercial part, totally ignorant at the technical level, which has put itself in the head of making the designer. therefore impositions of absurd things,complications of totally useless details, with malfunctions and increases of costs etc....
I just want to avoid being in such situations once again.

 

[gil]

I correct my previous statement with
I believe that the general address of each project is set by a few people, managers or owners.

which means that they can decide until the last insignificant detail. Only sometimes, after a long time, the technician gets enough confidence to have a minimum of autonomy. but it does not always, it takes a lot of time and anyway in very strict limits.

I don't know if it's true.
Ferrari engineers design a rear motor car because the solution seemed technically more efficient. it was enzo Ferrari to impose the modification of the project to return to the front engine, because according to him "the oxen have always been in front of the wagon".


when his technicians proposed to him the use of disc brakes, Ferraari wanted to continue using drum brakes because he had entered into a multiannual supply contract, and did not want to pay for a new supply. and even when I switch to disc brakes he chose the supplier despite the contrary opinion of his engineers.

then put your heart in peace.

 

[New Rider]

thank you all for the answers.
finding something like what you described would be great.
so that you speak of a general address, and we are fully aware that these decisions are made by those who put money on it.
Unfortunately in the last two experiences I found myself with an intrusion in my very marked work.
in the previous place I found myself "combat" with people with very little technical knowledge that decided how to make a mold. many times when I discussed why the setting was wrong, I predicted the defects of the pieces that punctually occurred but despite that these characters kept deciding (and wrong).
then I went to the current company, different sector. Here I found an octogenary that has always taken care of the commercial part, totally ignorant at the technical level, which has put itself in the head of making the designer. therefore impositions of absurd things,complications of totally useless details, with malfunctions and increases of costs etc....
I just want to avoid being in such situations once again.

We're all on the same boat... .