bim ok, ma quale?

[lance]

without entering into the valid speech software that is not in my opinion interesting, I do not agree very much on the underlying philosophy. or rather, on the fact that one should not be dominated by the software I agree, on everything else not. the future is made of interchange of data, shared workflows, standard procedures, and all this is damn difficult. It is a new way of doing things and has nothing to do with being or not a cad operator, means raising the asticella. requires you to have dedicated figures? Yes. to continuously test new possibilities and processes?si. to understand how to standardize the execution of a job and avoid having to quarrel with the export template of the dwg at each job? Yes. Move the spotlight from idea to execution? He's cursed and it's time. the world of architecture is back 20 years than that of mechanics. Are you looking for software that exports/imports perfectly in ifc? bhe!, notorious does not exist. While we are here beautifully discussing across the world a group of interesting people is doing the same to determine the new standards ifc 5. What will happen when they release them?. software "go up and down" is the mindset that matters.
It cannot be a nuisance that you should install a dedicated printer for pdfs, otherwise when it will be time to quarrel with vaults, open sky. graphic management for view a limit? only if I have no standard and therefore I do not impose non-file models connected between the different disciplines etc; if I do not worry that whoever the operator is the quality of the product of my company/study is the same, or better, I claim to have the supervision of everything slowing down the processes. an account is to use bim software to design another is to design bim. the world you describe, where the horizontal data exchange is not required has the days counted. away from your study, your boys, will not be able to count on a package of consolidated customers, they will have to associate themselves and fight with large and organized structures, that this world has lived and breathe it from years to the international level, or sgomitate to fit into their organic. few, very few, will be able to exploit only the weapon of the design idea to compete (that incidentally a software does not limit), only the ability to adapt to procedures and standards before, and that to define them then, will make the difference. so the question bim ok, but what? I answer: what product do you want to produce? what structure do you want to create or create, or in which do you want to insert? What kind of evolution do you expect for the next 5 years? Are you willing to sacrifice part of your time to understand this working system in depth (which is independent of software) and to try to apply it? or do you need a good 3d modeler that dialogues with the plumber, the electrician, and the technician of the commune? because if this is the case, and it is clear it is legitimate and sacrosanct as choice, you do not need nor revit ne archicad ne allplan etc. skp and autocad used as you must be more than sufficient.
of course they are only my personal reflections...:biggrin:

 

[fabio.revit]

without entering into the valid speech software that is not in my opinion interesting, I do not agree very much on the underlying philosophy. or rather, on the fact that one should not be dominated by the software I agree, on everything else not.[...]so the question bim ok, but what? I answer: what product do you want to produce? what structure do you want to create or create, or in which do you want to insert? What kind of evolution do you expect for the next 5 years? Are you willing to sacrifice part of your time to understand this working system in depth (which is independent of software) and to try to apply it? or do you need a good 3d modeler that dialogues with the plumber, the electrician, and the technician of the commune? because if this is the case, and it is clear it is legitimate and sacrosanct as choice, you do not need nor revit ne archicad ne allplan etc. skp and autocad used as you must be more than sufficient.
of course they are only my personal reflections...:biggrin:

It seems to me that few have read my premise: I have always specified that I refer to those who work in the local market, the Italian one.
and I have always argued that if you want to work in other markets and on other scales, you have different needs.
But...
However I did a London project, and the English colleague who presented the authorization practices produced drawings that not even with a cad freeware.
I have crossed renzo piano workshop for a common American client in Italy...and the architect chief project of rpw did not even speak English!
when my foreign customers (and so many) see how work and what kind of control I have on the workflow remain open-mouthed. and one is the wax of a factory that destroys engines for oil tankers, and with the bim process tells me that it works every day.
this to say that it is not all gold what lcucica, and that the integration of the process on the two axes is, to date, a chimera present perhaps only in a couple of large international structures that make contractor on the whole process and develop internal protocols (even if one of my customers selling health to contractors who make hotels in the Arab emirates goes down two times a month to bring them the paper catalogs is that pdf. . . )
the future will be different, but to this day and for a few years I am sure that if you approach a software, which remains a tool, you should look for that sewn apples oaddosso to your needs.

 

[atomorama]

thanks for the answers: counting that I use autocad lt 2011 or zwcad 2014 maybe it is better a simple software.

anyway if it were for me I would stay autocad, indeed many times a sketch of the main networks with the calculations on the side on a sheet are the best thing.

:

However, you can't escape the inevitable, so I want to try this bim: I think I will turn towards archicad.

Thank you!

 

[cacciatorino]

without entering into the valid speech software that is not in my opinion interesting, I do not agree very much on the underlying philosophy. or rather, on the fact that one should not be dominated by the software I agree, on everything else not. the future is made of interchange of data, shared workflows, standard procedures, and all this is damn difficult. It is a new way of doing things and has nothing to do with being or not a cad operator, means raising the asticella. requires you to have dedicated figures? Yes. to continuously test new possibilities and processes?si. to understand how to standardize the execution of a job and avoid having to quarrel with the export template of the dwg at each job? Yes. Move the spotlight from idea to execution? He's cursed and it's time. the world of architecture is back 20 years than that of mechanics. Are you looking for software that exports/imports perfectly in ifc? bhe!, notorious does not exist. While we are here beautifully discussing across the world a group of interesting people is doing the same to determine the new standards ifc 5. What will happen when they release them?. software "go up and down" is the mindset that matters.
It cannot be a nuisance that you should install a dedicated printer for pdfs, otherwise when it will be time to quarrel with vaults, open sky. graphic management for view a limit? only if I have no standard and therefore I do not impose non-file models connected between the different disciplines etc; if I do not worry that whoever the operator is the quality of the product of my company/study is the same, or better, I claim to have the supervision of everything slowing down the processes. an account is to use bim software to design another is to design bim. the world you describe, where the horizontal data exchange is not required has the days counted. away from your study, your boys, will not be able to count on a package of consolidated customers, they will have to associate themselves and fight with large and organized structures, that this world has lived and breathe it from years to the international level, or sgomitate to fit into their organic. few, very few, will be able to exploit only the weapon of the design idea to compete (that incidentally a software does not limit), only the ability to adapt to procedures and standards before, and that to define them then, will make the difference. so the question bim ok, but what? I answer: what product do you want to produce? what structure do you want to create or create, or in which do you want to insert? What kind of evolution do you expect for the next 5 years? Are you willing to sacrifice part of your time to understand this working system in depth (which is independent of software) and to try to apply it? or do you need a good 3d modeler that dialogues with the plumber, the electrician, and the technician of the commune? because if this is the case, and it is clear it is legitimate and sacrosanct as choice, you do not need nor revit ne archicad ne allplan etc. skp and autocad used as you must be more than sufficient.
of course they are only my personal reflections...:biggrin:

the problem is that the world of construction/civilization is enormously more parceled than that of mechanics, where almost always there is a dominant (business) design figure. you can have a beautiful bim software, but as in your hands it will pass a project flow equal to 5% of the total work (unless I am not called impregile or simli) the fact of having a very wide spectrum soft turns out useless.

years ago, I asked for something like that, as a profane of matter. At the end of the discussion, having understood a little what this bim was, I had the idea that it should be a server database positioned to the civil genius, and the various project actors had to be able to access us, limited to the data of their relevance but safeguarding the overall integrity of the design data.

here is the discussion:http://www.cad3d.it/forum1/threads/44120-bim-come-mai-questo-ritardo

 

[lance]

the problem is that the world of construction/civilization is enormously more parceled than that of mechanics, where almost always there is a dominant (business) design figure. you can have a beautiful bim software, but as in your hands it will pass a project flow equal to 5% of the total work (unless I am not called impregile or simli) the fact of having a very wide spectrum soft turns out useless.

years ago, I asked for something like that, as a profane of matter. At the end of the discussion, having understood a little what this bim was, I had the idea that it should be a server database positioned to the civil genius, and the various project actors had to be able to access us, limited to the data of their relevance but safeguarding the overall integrity of the design data.

In fact, the question is a little more complex but I realize that, for the moment, the general picture is still being used for work (large international studies, universities, etc.). I probably enjoy a privileged position as a trainer and consultant, who puts me in contact with so many different realities and breath an air that has not yet come to touch all environments. the new norm in the direction of arrival I think it will reserve to many of the surprises. I already have to help companies with the standards defined within a bep to sell their products. I agree with fabio that also abroad is not all gold what glitters, but I confirm that a big change is in place and who first adapts as to the usual better housing.

 

[lifemarco]

I press that I disagree at all and dissociate myself in full. Do you make us understand this science fiction you're talking about? I'd appreciate it.

revit does not manage the ifc format. delegate this to a third party plugin, free, but external.

 

[Tristan]

revit does not manage the ifc format. delegate this to a third party plugin, free, but external.

Let's not say baggianate. ..revit without any third party app opens, imports, connects and exports files to ifc format

 

[lifemarco]

Let's not say baggianate. ..revit without any third party app opens, imports, connects and exports files to ifc format

Perhaps to say "third-party" is not correct, because it is that the work is delegated to a "convertitor".https://sourceforge.net/projects/ifcexporter/are personally aware of cases where the same file exported to ifc by revit is not reopened properly by the same revit.

 

[Tristan]

are personally aware of cases where the same file exported to ifc by revit is not reopened properly by the same revit.

Yes, some versions did happen. .

 

[Fermat]

I associate myself with what is exposed by fabio, thinking that I share in full since our company develops bim libraries and chains using them both (as well as others). what is really embarrassing is the religious attitude of those who know only one of the 2 softwares and gives judgments on the other. on linkedin a discussion of this type went on 6 years and did not lead to anything because there were only defenses of the known instrument and attacks to that not known... in fact an epic confrontation between two ignorances. Why is the question better mac or better pc a stupid question? because who chooses mac (or pc) gives importance to aspects that who chooses the other solution considers secondary, and vice versa. idem the dispute archicad/revit. to us have happened situations where the management of the families was unacceptable and we preferred that to objects gsm of archicad, and vice versa. I recommend listening to those who know them both for logic issues. the plm in the manufacture is in fact the bim in the aec sector, but the implementation is only at the beginning, the digitization of the aec sector is very + complex for obvious but inevitable reasons.

 

[Nicolais]

hi to everyone, taking this old discussion in order to keep it in mind, lives the many interesting things written. after 2 years (it was 2017) I would like to make an update of the point.
I attended an event in Rome a couple of weeks ago, event promoted by architects; the most important software house (revit, archicad, rhino, acca and blumatic) were called to "reconstruct" in front of the thick plate the famous villa savoye of the corbusier in about 2 hours for each software house.
In addition to rebuilding it, they should also extrapolate the design data.
in my humble opinion (and to that of the whole audience) the software that were most appreciated and that they managed to complete the work and to export all the data were just Italian acca and blumatic; when the latter said the selling price of its product, there was a standing ovation: € 390,00
sincerely, from the international referents of revit and archicad I noticed only a spocchious attitude of the type "we are the best and the biggest", but then they did not manage to make 2 curved walls if not losing a sea of time with very complicated operations! operations that instead with the Italians have been done in a few minutes. fantastic the automatic extrapolation of the abachi making blumatic. I mean, for once I felt proud to be Italian!
now I have downloaded their trials and I am trying with hand; the first thing I noticed, however, is that software turns slow; I contacted the companies and I was noticed that my pc is not in line with the requirements required, recommending me to go on notebooks or station "ported" for the latest generation videogames, with very powerful graphics cards. Is someone using these software and giving me some opinion?

 

[Tristan]

...but then they couldn't make 2 curved walls if not losing a sea of time with complicated operations! operations that instead with the Italians have been done in a few minutes. fantastic the automatic extrapolation of the abachi making blumatic.

but villas savoye does not have curved walls...it is a box with 4 pillars.
However, as it reiterated in the old posts, the race to those who have longer makes sense only until you work alone between your 4 walls. the question put in the topic is and will always remain unanswered. There are too many variables in the field to be able to affirm what is better or worse.
I watched the blue archit footage. You know why it costs 390€? because that is its value! They don't give you anything. I seemed to see a demo of the old autocad architectural desktop. It may seem like a cannon for a user who still works with autocad lt, but for those who chew revit, archicad or allplan we only do fat laughter.

 

[Nicolais]

but villas savoye does not have curved walls...it is a box with 4 pillars.
However, as it reiterated in the old posts, the race to those who have longer makes sense only until you work alone between your 4 walls. the question put in the topic is and will always remain unanswered. There are too many variables in the field to be able to affirm what is better or worse.
I watched the blue archit footage. You know why it costs 390€? because that is its value! They don't give you anything. I seemed to see a demo of the old autocad architectural desktop. It may seem like a cannon for a user who still works with autocad lt, but for those who chew revit, archicad or allplan we only do fat laughter.

really has quite a few opaque walls and transparent curves, even the stairs. You can see that you have an eye... like what you have in evaluating quality from a video. Okay, come on next.

 

[Tristan]

You can see that you have an eye... like what you have in evaluating quality from a video. Okay, come on next.

You look beautiful, with me you fall bad. But if you want to tell us, go ahead. What I said. Do you like blumatic? and buy it, nothing comes in my pocket anyway. Good evening

 

[Nicolais]

See what you insist? How do you know I'm good if you didn't see me? apart from the jokes, I didn't say that I want to buy blumatics, although eventually I'll probably do that. However, I am finding that the Italians are probably going to inflict a hard blow on the Americans and not only....if not for anything else because they do so much more than them (see also structural but also short-blue). do we want to talk about the useless standard ifc? I get out of revit (but I think it's a problem of everyone), I reopen with the same revit and find myself other stuff.
moral: the much acclaimed integration will win you who will succeed in doing it in a single software, which already happens it also for the mep part

 

[ingioco]

But I'm finding that Italians are probably going to inflict a hard blow on Americans and not just... .

nicolais excuse but I fear that you have not understood what is saying (justly) tristan .... of which "hard blow" are you talking ? you know the Italian market of bim design what it represents in the world? 3% .... I repeat the three-percent....
what tristan is trying to make you understand is that if you want to continue swimming in your blue or happening "pozzangherina". but if by mistake you have to confront the sea open wishes...

 

[Nicolais]

No, I understand, but I don't really share, and then it's also abroad, and I have a friend in brazil who tells me that he sells more acca than revit. Blumatics abroad is not there but I think they will not miss at this point. Honestly, this prejudice to overestimate certain in disadvantages of others does not share it, especially because at times I see that they are generated by those who used year, as a precursor, to learn software and does not accept that there may be other software that can overcome them or at least fight it. It happened so with autocad and for years it goes on like this for inertia.

 

[ingioco]

@nicles... and keep not understanding ....
you're not telling yourself what the best software is but the market is to decide it and not you.
Unless you are a "archistar" (unfortunately there are no ingestars :roflmao if you participate in a bim project you are the sub of the subcontract and you have to use the software that its granufficial excellence client has decided that you have to use and, if 97% of the market uses revit or archicad or allplan (as already said by lance), you have to use them well.

p.s. on the demos I give you a straight ..... all the software houses (all) send to her the commercials that must, rightly, sell and show what their software can do best .... the result is that I am a great pussy.... It's after you bought it and you really start using it that you realize that, apart from what you saw in the demo, he can't do anything else.... but at that point they are your "nozzles"...

 

[Nicolais]

Forgive me, but you're saying a sea of corbellerie. . .no one can decide which software should use. There are bim platforms to manage projects and interchange format is ifc. by law no one can force you to use software rather than another. I'd like to see then how would anyone force you to use archicad while you use revit? Come on, you know you want to protect the usual. I renounce, I thought I'd find someone more inclined to a healthy discussion.

 

[ingioco]

Healthy discussion? difficult to do with a wall in cls.
from what I see tristan has given up and at this point I give up too.

Are you really convinced of what you wrote before?
that by law no one can force you to use specific software?
Good for you.... continue swimming in your "pozzangherina".
bye bye...