doubtful job and ccnl first work mechanical engineer (master's degree without state examination)

[IlConte94]

Good evening to all,
It's a lot I don't write on the forum and I'm going back this time with a "burocratic" question. I am master's degree in mechanical engineering (as well as three-years in industrial engineering), but I am not enrolled in the atbo, nor have I supported the state examination after I graduated. I have passed a selection interview at a company/study engineering (I am not really sure of the definition, but it is a srl so I think it is correct to define it "company") and offered me a ccnl contract trade (they adopt that and not the metalmechanical, perhaps because they also make civil projects from what I know and therefore have various different internal sectors), fifth level, with "mansions from mechanical engineer". That would be my first job. in their personal research ad they did not specify the need for registration at the state exam/surplus. I know that if you work as an employee of a company, and you do not sign, you do not need the registration at the beginning (and by extension I didn't even believe the state exam, even if I actually found contradictory information on the internet, specifically a word file where it is said testually "the exercise of the profession of engineer in dependent working regime obliges me to possess the only professional skill", where I think it is therefore intended to pass the state examination Is this word correct, for the contract that has been proposed to me given my only academic title, or was there to be written other as "technical instructions" or "medical instructions in mechanical engineering"? I'm a kind maybe a bit 'paranoic', but the last thing I want is to end up in legal issues like "professional abuse" etc. as the issues are very "smoked and smoked" (I didn't know an engineer could have a ccnl trade for example) and I don't really know anything, better than I ask before doing harm.
thank you all and excuse the papyrus

 

[meccanicamg]

State examination serves for free profession with game iva.
If you're an employee, you just need to graduate.
You'll get 14th.
come in not as an apprentice and this is good....they are old style.
the responsibility always remains of their delegate representative. . .insomma of the master of srl.
if srl wants or would later qualify for the profession. ...what useless if you're addicted, but maybe they want to show it to some client, they'll pay you.

 

[IlConte94]

State examination serves for free profession with game iva.
If you're an employee, you just need to graduate.
You'll get 14th.
come in not as an apprentice and this is good....they are old style.
the responsibility always remains of their delegate representative. . .insomma of the master of srl.
if srl wants or would later qualify for the profession. ...what useless if you're addicted, but maybe they want to show it to some client, they'll pay you.

Hello, thank you for the answer. I knew how you, that the state exam served only for the free profession and/or put signatures on projects in the company. but I came doubt by reading this highlighted in red: the pdf (first I said word wrong) I downloaded it from here https://www.htnetedition.eu/research/allegati/esercizio_professione_ing.pdfA little by chance, but it looks like a reliable source. . and the word "mansions of mechanical engineer" makes me think of "procession of engineer in dependent work"... I don't know if I'm completely off the road

 

[IlConte94]

However their correct definition is "engineering and consulting society" (I do not know therefore if it is correct "company" as I said earlier) and I found another pdf that says instead your own thing, mechanicalmg, as I also knew:I am a "paranoid" type of mine a little in every area, but these contradictions are worrying. . .

 

[meccanicamg]

Hello, thank you for the answer. I knew how you, that the state exam served only for the free profession and/or put signatures on projects in the company. but I came doubt by reading this highlighted in red: View attachment 69111the pdf (first I said word wrong) I downloaded it from here https://www.htnetedition.eu/research/allegati/esercizio_professione_ing.pdfA little by chance, but it looks like a reliable source. . and the word "mansions of mechanical engineer" makes me think of "procession of engineer in dependent work"... I don't know if I'm completely off the road

if you work as an engineer in association with professionals....in engineering companies etc.... you are not an employee but you are a partner and as such enabled with state examination.
If you're an employee who works for third parties....no.
Anyway, if you want to get rid of every paranoia, she's talking to the company that wants to hire you, you're telling you everything and giving a copy of the draft contract. then go to the union or from who makes you 730 if you are informed and clarify your position.

are all fragments of a lot of unclear things.

However this pdf speaks of independent engineer...no employee. you may be only a graduate, and so much they make you fem, table harvests, etc.

 

[IlConte94]

if you work as an engineer in association with professionals....in engineering companies etc.... you are not an employee but you are a partner and as such enabled with state examination.
If you're an employee who works for third parties....no.
Anyway, if you want to get rid of every paranoia, she's talking to the company that wants to hire you, you're telling you everything and giving a copy of the draft contract. then go to the union or from who makes you 730 if you are informed and clarify your position.

are all fragments of a lot of unclear things.

However this pdf speaks of independent engineer...no employee. you may be only a graduate, and so much they make you fem, table harvests, etc.

hello and thanks again for the interest. the pdf speaks at the top of an independent engineer but, in the part highlighted in red, speaks of "employee working relationships"... I don't know if it is a subcategory within those who do basic self-work and wants in parallel to be also an employee of someone... However I actually have a contract/precontract "bozza" where we talk about "determined recruitment at our office as an employee", with "mansions of mechanical engineer"; we then talk, in some points (I try to bring back the salient terms to understand that it is being dependent and not associate), also of "internal provisions to the company", "pay bus" and "good meal", "employer", "worker" and "dependent of", so I think it is an employee at a company, and not associate of a professional association... I apologize for the questions certainly banal/discounted, but I made a little mistake of living so far, apart from university and other my interests in leisure time, "in a bubble" and I really don't know anything about employment contracts, types etc. thanks again

 

[meccanicamg]

hello and thanks again for the interest. the pdf speaks at the top of an independent engineer but, in the part highlighted in red, speaks of "employee working relationships"... I don't know if it is a subcategory within those who do basic self-work and wants in parallel to be also an employee of someone... However I actually have a contract/precontract "bozza" where we talk about "determined recruitment at our office as an employee", with "mansions of mechanical engineer"; we then talk, in some points (I try to bring back the salient terms to understand that it is being dependent and not associate), also of "internal provisions to the company", "pay bus" and "good meal", "employer", "worker" and "dependent of", so I think it is an employee at a company, and not associate of a professional association... I apologize for the questions certainly banal/discounted, but I made a little mistake of living so far, apart from university and other my interests in leisure time, "in a bubble" and I really don't know anything about employment contracts, types etc. thanks again

the best thing is to talk to a union or caf. they know the theory very well.

 

[IlConte94]

the best thing is to talk to a union or caf. they know the theory very well.

ok thanks again, I will see to inform myself to these agencies, or to ask for clarifications to the company itself

 

[ceschi1959]

and offered me a contract ccnl commerce (they adopt that and not metalmechanical, perhaps because they also make civil projects from what I know and therefore have various different internal sectors), fifth level, with "mansions from mechanical engineer".

commerce implies the distribution of goods and services, in my experience these contracts are made by companies that, in fact, sell services and often place their employees as 'consultants' in other companies. look here the differences between the various contracts.

Contratto CCNL Commercio: livelli, tabelle retributive, aumenti 2025

Contratto CCNL Commercio, livelli e tabelle retributive: aumenti 2025, rinnovi e calcolo stipendio netto e lordo per inquadramento.

www.pmi.it

CCNL Metalmeccanica Industria

Sintesi del CCNL settore Metalmeccanica Industria: Tabelle Retributive, Istituti, Periodo di Prova, Ferie

www.conflavoro.it

 

[IlConte94]

commerce implies the distribution of goods and services, in my experience these contracts are made by companies that, in fact, sell services and often place their employees as 'consultants' in other companies. look here the differences between the various contracts.

Contratto CCNL Commercio: livelli, tabelle retributive, aumenti 2025

Contratto CCNL Commercio, livelli e tabelle retributive: aumenti 2025, rinnovi e calcolo stipendio netto e lordo per inquadramento.

www.pmi.it

CCNL Metalmeccanica Industria

Sintesi del CCNL settore Metalmeccanica Industria: Tabelle Retributive, Istituti, Periodo di Prova, Ferie

www.conflavoro.it

Hello, thank you for the answer. I have seen (and I had already seen the difference between the two ccnl) and I do not think that is the case: I've been thinking a little while ago that I have an ing friend. chemical who years ago worked in this studio/business and was in the process engineering team and also asked him about my doubt: Unfortunately, in addition to having changed work, he cannot answer me even with certainty, because he had passed the state examination from chemical ing (but he did not enroll in the albo) and therefore did not place the problem... However, summing up, more than the question that you rightly ask me (and I think that's not the case) I care to know if I can do this job as an "employee" (term quoted in the pre-contract, "consultant" instead is not there) without having supported the state exam.. .

 

[ceschi1959]

Hello, thank you for the answer. I have seen (and I had already seen the difference between the two ccnl) and I do not think that is the case: I've been thinking a little while ago that I have an ing friend. chemical who years ago worked in this studio/business and was in the process engineering team and also asked him about my doubt: Unfortunately, in addition to having changed work, he cannot answer me even with certainty, because he had passed the state examination from chemical ing (but he did not enroll in the albo) and therefore did not place the problem... However, summing up, more than the question that you rightly ask me (and I think that's not the case) I care to know if I can do this job as an "employee" (term quoted in the pre-contract, "consultant" instead is not there) without having supported the state exam.. .

beyond the term consultant or employee I highly recommend you to do the state exam as soon as possible, fresh of studies, because then maybe you pass the desire. the state exam is necessary for the inscription to the atbo that allows you to exercise the profession of engineer, in poor words the inscription to the atbo gives you the possibility to 'put the stamp'.

 

[stevie]

the best thing is to talk to a union or caf. they know the theory very well.

only that I would add.. .

 

[IlConte94]

beyond the term consultant or employee I highly recommend you to do the state exam as soon as possible, fresh of studies, because then maybe you pass the desire. the state exam is necessary for the inscription to the atbo that allows you to exercise the profession of engineer, in poor words the inscription to the atbo gives you the possibility to 'put the stamp'.

thanks to the advice, in fact I am not really fresher than studies, I had a "iato" post graduation in which we say that I could not look for work immediately and I had made the choice not to do the examination of state (not knowing however all these nuances between albo qualification etc, to have known maybe really had to do it and that's enough). Maybe I'll win my decision. maybe still your last message in which you say profession=put stamp is explanatory of my doubt: in the first pdf we talk, in fact, of "procession from engineer in working system dependent", so maybe, with profession, it is meant that you go to put the stamp/signature even if you go to do the employees... instead the second extract of pdf speaks of "graduate in dependent engineering" in the broader sense... I will ask them, however, to the authorities as you have suggested.

 

[cacciatorino]

thanks to the advice, in fact I am not really fresher than studies, I had a "iato" post graduation in which we say that I could not look for work immediately and I had made the choice not to do the examination of state (not knowing however all these nuances between albo qualification etc, to have known maybe really had to do it and that's enough). Maybe I'll win my decision. maybe still your last message in which you say profession=put stamp is explanatory of my doubt: in the first pdf we talk, in fact, of "procession from engineer in working system dependent", so maybe, with profession, it is meant that you go to put the stamp/signature even if you go to do the employees... instead the second extract of pdf speaks of "graduate in dependent engineering" in the broader sense... I will ask them, however, to the authorities as you have suggested.

I think it depends on the type of work. If you need to design a bridge, I think some stamp on the project presented to the civil genius goes there. If you have to design a robotized island, the responsibility if the company takes it. I more than trade unions or caf would ask the order of the engineers in your province, making sure that they will try to get you registered because they'd better.

 

[F_Ingrasciotta]

Small engineering consultancy firms usually fall into the tertiary ccnl and trade.

the overcoming or not of the exam without the registration to the atbo does not make any difference, the registration to the atbo makes sense only if one is free professional or if the company explicitly requires it. I would say that by stamping the responsibilities increase considerably and consequently there should be a contract adjustment... .

the question "level of framing" is particular because ccnl does not provide engineering consultancy work (to go to memory), is more addressed to cashier roles etc..
in the previous company they made me an apprentice starting from the 6 level to get to the 4, all in 3 years.

 

[cacciatorino]

p.s. My employees are hired with the specific contract of professional studies. I don't know how trade is applicable to your case, maybe they leverage the fact of being a srl.

 

[IlConte94]

Good morning. in the end I asked directly to them and they told me that it does not need the state examination as I would go to do the simple employee/employee and that the wording of the tasks is only a question "semanti" and it only serves them internally to establish the difference of the level of framing between a graduate and a graduate (I think they could write then "mansions from designer graduate" or from "mechanical conducted in better. chemical, I decided not to go to them: He told me about a quiet environment from which he escaped after 6 months... however I have an alternative, fortunately, as I paralleled another interview and had a little time to give an answer and decide between the two. anyway thanks to everyone for the help

 

[clars88]

Good evening to all,
It's a lot I don't write on the forum and I'm going back this time with a "burocratic" question. I am master's degree in mechanical engineering (as well as three-years in industrial engineering), but I am not enrolled in the atbo, nor have I supported the state examination after I graduated. I have passed a selection interview at a company/study engineering (I am not really sure of the definition, but it is a srl so I think it is correct to define it "company") and offered me a ccnl contract trade (they adopt that and not the metalmechanical, perhaps because they also make civil projects from what I know and therefore have various different internal sectors), fifth level, with "mansions from mechanical engineer". That would be my first job. in their personal research ad they did not specify the need for registration at the state exam/surplus. I know that if you work as an employee of a company, and you do not sign, you do not need the registration at the beginning (and by extension I didn't even believe the state exam, even if I actually found contradictory information on the internet, specifically a word file where it is said testually "the exercise of the profession of engineer in dependent working regime obliges me to possess the only professional skill", where I think it is therefore intended to pass the state examination Is this word correct, for the contract that has been proposed to me given my only academic title, or was there to be written other as "technical instructions" or "medical instructions in mechanical engineering"? I'm a kind maybe a bit 'paranoic', but the last thing I want is to end up in legal issues like "professional abuse" etc. as the issues are very "smoked and smoked" (I didn't know an engineer could have a ccnl trade for example) and I don't really know anything, better than I ask before doing harm.
thank you all and excuse the papyrus

hi, the state exam you don't need to be hired as an employee at private companies. Actually, if you work as an employee, the state exam and subsequent registration to the atbo does not serve anything except to pin money, and to participate in some competition (e.g. professional engineer in enac). If you just want to make an attempt this year in November the state exam will still be only oral test, at least I'll read you and put aside at least the skill. but otherwise it is not worth it and is never required especially for us industrial engineers. I'm aerospace.

 

[Archimed&]

hello to all and apologize if I repeat this discussion. I wanted to ask a question maybe trivial for some after searching unnecessarily online not finding answer.. .

I'm a master's degree in mechanics but I don't have the exam, I want to open a start up with other girls... Enablement is not necessary, is it?

@meccanicamg I tag you because you are always kind, competent and clear in your answers. thanks to who will answer a

 

[meccanicamg]

hello to all and apologize if I repeat this discussion. I wanted to ask a question maybe trivial for some after searching unnecessarily online not finding answer.. .

I'm a master's degree in mechanics but I don't have the exam, I want to open a start up with other girls... Enablement is not necessary, is it?

@meccanicamg I tag you because you are always kind, competent and clear in your answers. thanks to who will answer a

Bye. depends on what you do. there are many owners of companies that do not even have superiors as studies and respond civilly and penally.
if you want to make certified calculation reports third-party accounts you need registration and registration albo in the appropriate category.
if you do a plant design and construction company you do not need.
always consult the trusted accountant and squeeze it.