best result

[Exatem]

Greetings to everyone.
as from title, I would need an expert advice to get the best result.
I'll explain the situation.
for a friend I have created a 3d of which I attach two renderings and which later provided printing n 3d by an American specialized company.
the result however did not meet expectations, the "prototype" is result polygonal and with an insufficient surface finish level.
the dimensional data provided by the company that has dealt with printing are:
149,9mm x 13 x 11.5
volume 7,3262 cm3
useful working space 13,8899cm3
total surface 56,6314 cm2

the questions are:
what technology is it advisable to adopt?
which material is preferable to obtain a high level of finish?
How much does it cost to make an exemplary that satisfies the above?

the prototype will serve as a master for subsequent resin reproduction.

Thank you all.

 

[SHIREN]

Greetings to everyone.
as from title, I would need an expert advice to get the best result.
I'll explain the situation.
for a friend I have created a 3d of which I attach two renderings and which later provided printing n 3d by an American specialized company.
the result however did not meet expectations, the "prototype" is result polygonal and with an insufficient surface finish level.
the dimensional data provided by the company that has dealt with printing are:
149,9mm x 13 x 11.5
volume 7,3262 cm3
useful working space 13,8899cm3
total surface 56,6314 cm2

the questions are:
what technology is it advisable to adopt?
which material is preferable to obtain a high level of finish?
How much does it cost to make an exemplary that satisfies the above?

the prototype will serve as a master for subsequent resin reproduction.

Thank you all.

[MENTION=3390]exatem[/MENTION]Welcome back
It's always a pleasure to read
then you need to industrialize the product
from what you have attached
It's true you trusted an American company
but maybe in our little italy you would have got something better
Anyway
My advice
do thread on an aluminum bar with a normal lathe
insert all sun a cnc 3assi with a quarter axis derived from a spindle placed on the floor
of the cnc
that has the possibility to rotate 45° for each operation
path
high speed with torical cutters
lubrication through tool
you will have a super finish
that in the real you will need to finish by hand through a mechanical adder
of those with mustache glasses and cigarette between the lips
if you need to get a matrix to produce the artifact
I think you have provided in drawing the whole according to a pattern sectioning line
and I think he's put in the right corners
waiting for a match
Thank you very much
Hello Marco

 

[Exatem]

[MENTION=3390]exatem[/MENTION]Welcome back
It's always a pleasure to read
then you need to industrialize the product
from what you have attached
It's true you trusted an American company
but maybe in our little italy you would have got something better
Anyway
My advice
do thread on an aluminum bar with a normal lathe
insert all sun a cnc 3assi with a quarter axis derived from a spindle placed on the floor
of the cnc
that has the possibility to rotate 45° for each operation
path
high speed with torical cutters
lubrication through tool
you will have a super finish
that in the real you will need to finish by hand through a mechanical adder
of those with mustache glasses and cigarette between the lips
if you need to get a matrix to produce the artifact
I think you have provided in drawing the whole according to a pattern sectioning line
and I think he's put in the right corners
waiting for a match
Thank you very much
Hello Marco

Hello dear enzo.
thank you for the welcome back though I have never actually left.
I follow the forum daily, I just stopped writing post encyclopaedics for reasons that it is not time to comment. I just hope so I finally got someone together.
We come to the question.
I'm not the one who ordered 3d printing in America but my colleague I just made the drawing.
Actually the part you call thread is actually a rubber bellows, you should notice the weight effect that curves it down.
I am sure that many Italian firms are able to do better but also that contacted by the colleague is certainly able to do more.
the problem is that being both ignorant in this matter, we are not able to identify the most suitable 3d printing technique and the material with which to realize it.
Consider that it is a relatively small object, the 1/35 scale barrel of the cannon that equipped the m109l provided to our army and that the colleague, in possession of the necessary equipment, intends to replicate in limited series in resin for model use so the cost should be contained in order not to affect overly the final cost.

I thank you for the answer and I remain in "vigile" waiting:
an enzo hug.

 

[MBT]

Hello dear enzo.
thank you for the welcome back though I have never actually left.
I follow the forum daily, I just stopped writing post encyclopaedics for reasons that it is not time to comment. I just hope so I finally got someone together.
We come to the question.
I'm not the one who ordered 3d printing in America but my colleague I just made the drawing.
Actually the part you call thread is actually a rubber bellows, you should notice the weight effect that curves it down.
I am sure that many Italian firms are able to do better but also that contacted by the colleague is certainly able to do more.
the problem is that being both ignorant in this matter, we are not able to identify the most suitable 3d printing technique and the material with which to realize it.
Consider that it is a relatively small object, the 1/35 scale barrel of the cannon that equipped the m109l provided to our army and that the colleague, in possession of the necessary equipment, intends to replicate in limited series in resin for model use so the cost should be contained in order not to affect overly the final cost.

I thank you for the answer and I remain in "vigile" waiting:
an enzo hug.

Hello exa
in my humble opinion, you are not the one who needs to know the techniques! must be your supplier who must tell you "I do this with this system that has a better definition and with this material that allows me better performance. "
After all, when you go to the restaurant, ask for a meal and leave the assumption that the chef can prepare it.
Maybe you don't even know where to start, but the chef needs to know. I'd better go make sandwiches at the stadium.
in the specific case, the supplier will be contacted by explaining the requirements, in terms of definition and characteristics of the materials.
as an answer you will get a "you can do, with this technique and these materials and at this cost" or "no, I can't do it.. Maybe someone else... "

If you are interested, I can pass you some "in the area" contact with which we have collaborated and which has given us excellent products and results.

 

[Exatem]

Hello exa
in my humble opinion, you are not the one who needs to know the techniques! must be your supplier who must tell you "I do this with this system that has a better definition and with this material that allows me better performance. "
After all, when you go to the restaurant, ask for a meal and leave the assumption that the chef can prepare it.
Maybe you don't even know where to start, but the chef needs to know. I'd better go make sandwiches at the stadium.
in the specific case, the supplier will be contacted by explaining the requirements, in terms of definition and characteristics of the materials.
as an answer you will get a "you can do, with this technique and these materials and at this cost" or "no, I can't do it.. Maybe someone else... "

If you are interested, I can pass you some "in the area" contact with which we have collaborated and which has given us excellent products and results.

Hello mbt
I do not ask to know the techniques, but that someone tells me what material it is advisable to use and then direct in that sense the search for a company you use.
While the barrel could be much more simply drawn by turning a metal bar, the mouth brake is more complex.
the press that we have done is not bad for this element, indeed... apart from a superficial "rugosity" too evident is correct in the forms and in the dimensions.
but for reasons I have already expressed, replica of more specimens for resin molding with vacuum machine, is not enough.
I mean... I saw replicas of jewelry made with 3d printers that are practically perfect.
as I hear about abs, metals, plastic wires, etc. etc.
to get an object with smooth finish, cylindrical without edges... What do you use?

 

[MBT]

Hello mbt
I do not ask to know the techniques, but that someone tells me what material it is advisable to use and then direct in that sense the search for a company you use.
While the barrel could be much more simply drawn by turning a metal bar, the mouth brake is more complex.
the press that we have done is not bad for this element, indeed... apart from a superficial "rugosity" too evident is correct in the forms and in the dimensions.
but for reasons I have already expressed, replica of more specimens for resin molding with vacuum machine, is not enough.
I mean... I saw replicas of jewelry made with 3d printers that are practically perfect.
as I hear about abs, metals, plastic wires, etc. etc.
to get an object with smooth finish, cylindrical without edges... What do you use?

mah, we have made a nylon stereolitography loaded aluminum of a ø200mm piece with sunshades, asolettes, holes and more... and honestly it is a cylindrical surface, not a polygon of n sides...

 

[SHIREN]

Hello dear enzo.
thank you for the welcome back though I have never actually left.
I follow the forum daily, I just stopped writing post encyclopedia
an enzo hug.

[MENTION=3390]exatem[/MENTION]if the problem is the post encyclopedia
Shorter failures
What's the prob.

Hello dear enzo.

, intends to replicate in limited series in resin for model use so the cost should be contained in order not to affect excessively the final cost.

I thank you for the answer and I remain in "vigile" waiting:
an enzo hug.

Dearest Marco
sient to me ( listen)

eliminates tred printing
because you also need to make a mold to get the pieces in resin

you must go to a wooden or mechanical modeler
that makes you the model(wood-aluminum-resin-oub etc etc.)
with sforms and all accessories to eliminate subsquadri
in your area
m.a.b
Well done.
wires
from the model are obtained the two half matrices
resin for casting (ureol is fine)
as you have holes in the head of the barrel
the modeler must insert removable inserts that area
to allow the opening of the mould and
then revenues as many cannons you want
resin in case ureol is always good in dry summer in 20-30 minutes
in winter in 40-50 minutes
to save a few cents the aluminium sand (aluminum trioxide) is added
in case of superior quality the waxed resin
is a simple technique
I am easier to do is what to describe operations
Thank you very much

 

[Sasso SP]

mah....+ that a problem of 3d technology seems to me a problem of exporting the cad

 

[MBT]

mah....+ that a problem of 3d technology seems to me a problem of exporting the cad

But you know I was thinking the same thing?
too little defined stl,...

 

[Sasso SP]

But you know I was thinking the same thing?
too little defined stl,...

I think a piece with a finish like that doesn't even come from a hobbyist printer.
exatem export to .stl was made by supplier?
as material only with regard to the finish I recommend xtreme stereolitografia
consider that on all speed is made post-production especially on aesthetic models http://www.stampa3d-forum.it/post-produzione-stampa-3d-parte-2/

 

[Exatem]

[MENTION=3390]exatem[/MENTION]Dearest Marco
sient to me ( listen)

eliminates tred printing
because you also need to make a mold to get the pieces in resin

you must go to a wooden or mechanical modeler
that makes you the model(wood-aluminum-resin-oub etc etc.)
with sforms and all accessories to eliminate subsquadri

mah....+ that a problem of 3d technology seems to me a problem of exporting the cad

But you know I was thinking the same thing?
too little defined stl,...

I think a piece with a finish like that doesn't even come from a hobbyist printer.
exatem export to .stl was made by supplier?
as material only with regard to the finish I recommend xtreme stereolitografia
consider that on all speed is made post-production especially on aesthetic models http://www.stampa3d-forum.it/post-produzione-stampa-3d-parte-2/

in order.. .
Enzo, I attach you a couple of photos of subjects that the colleague is able to get by printing the resin.
here the subjects are painted but the level of finishing and detail is also understood.

for rock sp and mbt.
in fact the stl file is absolutely undefined but the company used the step that then is what I used also to render.

 

[MarcoBi]

notevole sean connery in stl :biggrin:

 

[IPdesign]

I hope I can help you with my service experience.

For a moment, we leave the budget speech, which most of the time is the main component that makes us choose a technique at the expense of another.

I would base myself on how much I read quickly and in case you correct me .
Purpose of prototypes: to obtain a mould for further replicas
That is why I think that the finishing is the most important component.
On the basis of this, I should like to say that the filament printing is not the most suitable because of the layer layer layer (even if it could be finished later) . what can I use ? well printing in stereolitography, dlp or polyjet .
and here comes the second problem.. the dimensions .. that to what I read are not huge but surely out of the reach of many dlp.
remains the stereo or polyjet .
Since you don't need a prototype that can have the distinction between rubberized and rigid part, I would also discard polyjet and remains a stereolitography that can be further finished before being used to make the mold.

This is what I would recommend to a client of mine, then obviously comes into play the black beast called budget that usually shakes all the cards.

I also think the finish of the prototype is too coarse stl export!!

 

[Exatem]

I hope I can help you with my service experience.

For a moment, we leave the budget speech, which most of the time is the main component that makes us choose a technique at the expense of another.

I would base myself on how much I read quickly and in case you correct me .
Purpose of prototypes: to obtain a mould for further replicas
That is why I think that the finishing is the most important component.
On the basis of this, I should like to say that the filament printing is not the most suitable because of the layer layer layer (even if it could be finished later) . what can I use ? well printing in stereolitography, dlp or polyjet .
and here comes the second problem.. the dimensions .. that to what I read are not huge but surely out of the reach of many dlp.
remains the stereo or polyjet .
Since you don't need a prototype that can have the distinction between rubberized and rigid part, I would also discard polyjet and remains a stereolitography that can be further finished before being used to make the mold.

This is what I would recommend to a client of mine, then obviously comes into play the black beast called budget that usually shakes all the cards.

I also think the finish of the prototype is too coarse stl export!!

That's what I wanted to know.
in fact the stereo was already "exit" as an option.
with what material is made? (perdonates infinite ignorance)
However the press was made with a stp.

 

[IPdesign]

That's what I wanted to know.
in fact the stereo was already "exit" as an option.
with what material is made? (perdonates infinite ignorance)
However the press was made with a stp.

Then I make a roundabout for the benefit of all, of course there are possible shortcomings but at large the techniques are these:

fdm or fff - filament : abs,pla, petg, pet, hips, pva, pc etc. the important is a filament of 1.75 or 3mm (depending on the printer )

sintering : very diffused nylon, loaded less . with different machinery also metals . is a powder of the desired material.

stereolithography: they are liquid resins that are laser solidified . Usually materials that produce the machines . googla "water shed xc 11122" is only one of the many resins from stereolitography

polyjet . : photosensitive resins (a uv lamp is used to solidify resin ) are usually injected by micro nozzles a bit like inkjet printer technique. technique with undoubted quality and definition that also has the advantage of being able to mix various resins to vary texture or color to the printed object.

of course if someone wants to add or correct what I reported is welcome

 

[mariuss.r]

the purpose is to be able to produce a series (although limited) of cannons.

but why do the prototype, when thanks to the cad file I can directly extract the resin mold maths (including removable inserts) that will allow me to produce the series?
generally the prototype with 3d printing is done only to check that the size of the object is correct.

I think you just need to lean on a mechanical model that is equipped with a cnc working center to which you will provide the model step.

ps : generally when I expose the stl I impose a string error of 0.005 mm to get very smooth mesh, in your case I would say that the American firm has hopped in phase of export from step to stl.

 

[Exatem]

the purpose is to be able to produce a series (although limited) of cannons.

but why do the prototype, when thanks to the cad file I can directly extract the resin mold maths (including removable inserts) that will allow me to produce the series?

will of the colleague... I'm a miserable designer. :redface:

 

[SHIREN]

the purpose is to be able to produce a series (although limited) of cannons.

but why do the prototype, when thanks to the cad file I can directly extract the resin mold maths (including removable inserts) that will allow me to produce the series?
generally the prototype with 3d printing is done only to check that the size of the object is correct.

I think you just need to lean on a mechanical model that is equipped with a cnc working center to which you will provide the model step.

ps : generally when I expose the stl I impose a string error of 0.005 mm to get very smooth mesh, in your case I would say that the American firm has hopped in phase of export from step to stl.

will of the colleague... I'm a miserable designer. :redface:

Bye-bye marius
Hello Marco
on large molds could, indeed it is as you say
in the small or as specifically of the cannon
you have reduced dimensions
then you perform a male that for convenience can also be of material other than the final product
you have the possibility to make a manual adjustment
perform small manual modifications add removable accessories for the extraction of the artifact from the mold
things that in large and medium molds is simple to perform
even if in the reality of my daily life I always do the male most often
in woody essences such as the birch beech cirmol etc etc.
resin matrices
matrices that should be in the surface
with fill in ureol (polylus and isocyanate at 50%)
we use only urol with a charge of aluminum powder 33+33+33 %
for a few (some hundred) pieces is fine
Thank you very much

 

[Gio_S]

I am now retired and I dedicate no more to building projects but to stl of modeling.
The question is, who prints, uses the file you give him. so you have to give him a stl that is quite defined as to number of polygons. Unfortunately today there is the tendency to Boolean operations on the programs, and to bake beautiful renderings with the smoot that completely remove the designer from the reality of what he produced. that must be a set of faces, only at triangle, and numerous enough to produce bombed volumes decently.
as drawings depends on the tool you use, but in any case to have excellent results, it should be used not "wire" but stereolitography. to the maximum of the usual current definition used.
the layers, i.e. the "print layers passes" you have to ask them with a thickness of mm. 0.025 (which means a quarter of a tenth of a millimeter):
Faster and thicker print layers are not good. will have visible steps.
understanding the scale of the triangles that you pass to the printer is a matter of getting your eye. but I give you an example. already a good result you get reasoning in this way.
Do you need to make a tube diameter 3 tenths of mm.? Well actually at least, the round section can simulate at least with a hexagon.
means that a tube will be equal visually, once printed at 0.025 to its hexagonal-based prisma in the theoretical and correct circular section.
the edges will be automatically rounded.
So, you will use an octagon for greater safety. and get a tube that will appear round.
each other round face will be to be drawn, bearing in mind this principle of proportions.