Black pom overprint + PC or transparent

[Daniele-san]

Hello.

I would need to know if there are particular compatibility issues to overprint pom (black) and pc or pmma (transparent)

Thank you.
Hi.

 

[TECNOMODEL]

very rare application.
are different materials, amorphous and a semi-crystalline, with different rites, different molding temperatures.

Moreover the pom is a material that has low adhesion values with other polymers.

It would be interesting to try it as an experience, but if I had to industrialize it, I would strongly disagree.

 

[SHIREN]

very rare application.
are different materials, amorphous and a semi-crystalline, with different rites, different molding temperatures.

Moreover the pom is a material that has low adhesion values with other polymers.

It would be interesting to try it as an experience, but if I had to industrialize it, I would strongly disagree.

[MENTION=48249]technomodel[/MENTION]to try to understand what we are talking about


pom (polyoxyethylene)
pom c (copolymer); pom h (omopolymer)
commonly called acetalic resin, it is a crystalline polymerization obtained by polymerization of formaldehyde, has had a fast and wide spread for the excellent mechanical characteristics stable to moisture and good workability.
excellent resilience, hardness, rigidity and exceptional dimensional stability; for copolymers also excellent resistance to boiling water, discreet resistance to light especially for homopolymer.
good electrical properties, excellent resistance to solvents, oils, hydrocarbons.
good wear resistance and low friction coefficient.
areas of employment: technical articles of excellent precision for the chemical, electrical, mechanical, automotive, pharmaceutical, scientific instruments.
limits of use, high specific weight, burns easily with toxic vapours of formaldehyde.

pc (polycarbonate)
Amorphous polymer, is commonly used for high impact resistance even at low temperatures.
transparent base material, excellent impact resistance, stable dimensionally.
poor characteristics of self-lubrication is attached by oils and greases for which it can hardly be used for lubricated mechanical organs.
colorable, it finds application in various fields.
good dielectric characteristics; the most common uses are in this area.
little used in the chemical industry due to poor resistance to hydrocarbons.
physiologically inert if natural in the food field.


Thank you very much

 

[Daniele-san]

[MENTION=48249]technomodel[/MENTION]to try to understand what we are talking about


pom (polyoxyethylene)
pom c (copolymer); pom h (omopolymer)
commonly called acetalic resin, it is a crystalline polymerization obtained by polymerization of formaldehyde, has had a fast and wide spread for the excellent mechanical characteristics stable to moisture and good workability.
excellent resilience, hardness, rigidity and exceptional dimensional stability; for copolymers also excellent resistance to boiling water, discreet resistance to light especially for homopolymer.
good electrical properties, excellent resistance to solvents, oils, hydrocarbons.
good wear resistance and low friction coefficient.
areas of employment: technical articles of excellent precision for the chemical, electrical, mechanical, automotive, pharmaceutical, scientific instruments.
limits of use, high specific weight, burns easily with toxic vapours of formaldehyde.

pc (polycarbonate)
Amorphous polymer, is commonly used for high impact resistance even at low temperatures.
transparent base material, excellent impact resistance, stable dimensionally.
poor characteristics of self-lubrication is attached by oils and greases for which it can hardly be used for lubricated mechanical organs.
colorable, it finds application in various fields.
good dielectric characteristics; the most common uses are in this area.
little used in the chemical industry due to poor resistance to hydrocarbons.
physiologically inert if natural in the food field.


Thank you very much

hi shiren,
What would you like to make your speech understand?

 

[Daniele-san]

very rare application.
are different materials, amorphous and a semi-crystalline, with different rites, different molding temperatures.

Moreover the pom is a material that has low adhesion values with other polymers.

It would be interesting to try it as an experience, but if I had to industrialize it, I would strongly disagree.

thanks for the info and suggestion the problem is that I don't deal with molds but finished product so we can't risk (especially in these times of restraints :redface

what kind of material would you recommend to replace at the pom for overprinting I mentioned (with pc or pmma)

Thanks again

 

[TECNOMODEL]

just because you take care of finished product you have to know and choose material, geometries etc.

to replace the pom you may use an abs, if it is sufficient at the level of mechanical properties for the application required.

 

[Daniele-san]

just because you take care of finished product you have to know and choose material, geometries etc.

to replace the pom you may use an abs, if it is sufficient at the level of mechanical properties for the application required.

hi the application is a simple diffuser with waveguides for an electronic device

 

[TECNOMODEL]

and why do you have to overprint for such a simple detail?

 

[Daniele-san]

and why do you have to overprint for such a simple detail?

certainly the management of suppliers comes to us in favor
other solutions that I have in mind to manage more suppliers, warehouse, cq and assembly times

what solution would you propose?

 

[TECNOMODEL]

I'll ask you a question and answer me with another question?

how should I propose an alternative if you have not yet explained what you have to realize and what features should it have?

I can tell you do it in abs, or in pa, or in pp or still directly in pom, each of these solutions however may not make sense because you do not know what you want to do.

if you want solutions ask clear questions, expose the situation and what you have to achieve by indicating mechanical, thermal needs, resistance to oils, acids or anything you need.

without info you will always have partial answers that will only be a waste of time, for you and for whom you provide them.

 

[Daniele-san]

I'll ask you a question and answer me with another question?

how should I propose an alternative if you have not yet explained what you have to realize and what features should it have?

I can tell you do it in abs, or in pa, or in pp or still directly in pom, each of these solutions however may not make sense because you do not know what you want to do.

if you want solutions ask clear questions, expose the situation and what you have to achieve by indicating mechanical, thermal needs, resistance to oils, acids or anything you need.

without info you will always have partial answers that will only be a waste of time, for you and for whom you provide them.

hello technomodel

the application I have already indicated above answering to you and I bring it back to you.. .
hi the application is a simple diffuser with waveguides for an electronic deviceI add that they are professional musical instruments

when I asked you an alternative I meant not to the material (which was clear to me) but to something that replaced the overprint considering that you yourself asked me if I had to make it with that solution
Everything here

 

[TECNOMODEL]

you have not yet said why to make such a simple piece you started from the hypothesis of an overprint.
What do you need to cover the pom, which I imagine you have chosen for its mechanical characteristics, with a pc?
if your idea is to have the piece covered alternatives there are no, unless you make two separate pieces that close to shell and where you will insert the particular in pom.

In my opinion, for a particular that only deviates air, you can safely use a more "poor" material just.
so much goes inside an apparatus, nobody sees it. unless you provide high temperature use then the speech changes and you have to choose the material well. or, again, do not foresee the possibility of receiving shocks, vibrations or other. and you return to the speech before.
as you see with the few information you have given you can only guess.
and, again, we're wasting time in two.

 

[Daniele-san]

you have not yet said why to make such a simple piece you started from the hypothesis of an overprint.
What do you need to cover the pom, which I imagine you have chosen for its mechanical characteristics, with a pc?
if your idea is to have the piece covered alternatives there are no, unless you make two separate pieces that close to shell and where you will insert the particular in pom.

In my opinion, for a particular that only deviates air, you can safely use a more "poor" material just.
so much goes inside an apparatus, nobody sees it. unless you provide high temperature use then the speech changes and you have to choose the material well. or, again, do not foresee the possibility of receiving shocks, vibrations or other. and you return to the speech before.
as you see with the few information you have given you can only guess.
and, again, we're wasting time in two.

Maybe I didn't explain well,
This is a led diffuser (not air) and should be mounted on the control panel of a musical instrument (which is visible)
the solution of the shell or simil approach has been evaluated but we have to manage two codes etc. (in other similar solution also two suppliers. . .
I asked for information about the pom because on the control panel I have other details in pom (only for that) among other things are not even particular that should be stressed.
for temperature we do a storage test of the instrument with cycles at +50°c/-30°c within 48 hours and these temperatures do not affect the characteristics of the material
I initially just needed to know if the pom was overprinted with pc or pmma and you gave me the answer I needed (you advised me)
then we have filled up on where and how but only to have a chat and exchange views and advice
Hi.

 

[TECNOMODEL]

Now it's clear.
you can make the diffuser integrally in pc, it will be all transparent but mechanically the properties of the pc are good.
if you want a part that is "colored" and not transparent then opt for an abs and make the consamping of the second part in transparent pc.
studies well the geometries of the two parts creating adequate "aggrapes" so that the two parts do not separate.

 

[Daniele-san]

Now it's clear.
you can make the diffuser integrally in pc, it will be all transparent but mechanically the properties of the pc are good.
if you want a part that is "colored" and not transparent then opt for an abs and make the consamping of the second part in transparent pc.
studies well the geometries of the two parts creating adequate "aggrapes" so that the two parts do not separate.

:finger:
Thank you!

 

[SHIREN]

hi shiren,
What would you like to make your speech understand?

[MENTION=43]Danile-san[/MENTION]I am not experienced in the specific overprinting
but to the eye I think the two materials are too different between them
Maybe I could be contradicted by other specific experiences
but at the moment I remain skeptical
Thank you very much

 

[Daniele-san]

Good morning to all,

I wanted to resume this discussion after making the speaker we needed
as you can see from the attached image the detail is in abs and has within 15 optical waveguides in pmma
Can there be problems with over-printing?

dimensions are approximately diameter 30mm height 15mm

 

[TECNOMODEL]

I see it difficult to keep pmma details in place during overprinting.
unless they go out of the abs in the lower part, in that case you can get a place where to house them.
for other aspects should have the solid underhand, with one image it is difficult to give judgments.

 

[Daniele-san]

I see it difficult to keep pmma details in place during overprinting.
unless they go out of the abs in the lower part, in that case you can get a place where to house them.
for other aspects should have the solid underhand, with one image it is difficult to give judgments.

This is why the "crown" of speakers should be printed first?
Why not the contrary? i.e. filling of the caves on the part in abs?

 

[TECNOMODEL]

the procedure is always first the inner piece and then overprints with the outer shell.
also wanting to make an experiment going backwards you have some contraindications:
-the mold that would make the pmma parts is much more complex, so much more expensive
- in every part in pmma you would have the injection point that would be to be cut manually and would remain a sign in one of the two frontal faces.if it has to serve as lens does not seem to me the maximum.
-the mold for the shell in abs would be much more complex, as above.
- for how you designed the abs shell is not feasible by mold, the cavities for the pmma parts have subsquadri.