calculate mechanical quotas parts

[meccanicamg]

It's been a long time since I wanted to deal with the issue of preventive mechanical parts costs.

at present, what they teach at university and what some plaque manufacturers indicate, there seemingly only exist the numerous calculations of cutting speed, effort, cutting section....mortization... an infinite longness.

what I want to do is a synthetic calculation system of mechanical parts costs. I am convinced that many workshops do as I am about to explain below, but then they do all the Puritans and do not want to reveal anything.
- raw weight and cost/kg get purchase cost
- if there are welds there will be cost/m or cost/kg or you agree 1,60€/kg all inclusive (or values like this)
- if there is annealing costs/kg
- for machine drilling you make a tabellina with holes ranges with average time for hole.... knowing that the tool machine costs 30€ man/h you attack another 15...20...25€/h....you determine a cost estimate for holes
- the total volume to be removed is calculated to be removed and knowing that a lathe removes 40 cm3/min and 2 cm3/min in finishing... time is calculated and multiplied by the hourly cost
- fixed time per machine tool at the fixed time cost to equip m.u.
- sum of all coststo comfort of what I am saying there is a beautiful publication of polgar http://web.mit.edu/2.810/www/files/readings/polgar_timeestimation.pdf where he explains what the "cantinators" do.
In fact, with a hand-made design you can't put on a g code and make the simulation for understand how long it takes ... you need something very simple.

I am currently trying and collecting unit costs to expand the computer.

what I couldn't find and that I miss are the parameters of removal of truciole in cm3/min for storage of offices for tabs, in roughing and finishing.

I miss the considerations for tempering especially for gears, chromiuming, nitriding, rubberizing etc.

what experiences and information can you share?

I need to pre-emption especially to correct the design phase:
- turned and milled flanges
- trees, spacers, pins
- gears (by the way... I miss the parameters for tooth and teeth grinding....)
- electro-welded carpenters from plates and tubular... also mixed
- perforated and threaded plate
- folded and welded sheets

 

[SHIREN]

beautiful discussion
a complex moment
quotes or preventive if you are not careful
cost more than the final product
a month for a quote for 10 working days:
the most often there are market prices of tot. products
who are silent and around which you turn and turn between a supplier and another
also to exploit moments of rest of others
in other cases a theoretical idea is made about production time (€/h) raw material costs
you add a 20% general expenses a 10% profit
hoping to take the job also as a choice of a future investment or to get acquainted
I don't know if there will ever be a sw able to analyze costs and revenues to process a quote
then depends also on the customer
large private
private small size
public with assignment orders of first-second-third-fourth hand:redface:
we wait for other comments
Thank you very much

 

[meccanicamg]

at present I should implement the time for special pieces placements, I miss all the costs of thermal and superficial treatments at mm2....and yet one thing I can't define are the metal carpenters because as long as it is an electro-welded base you take it away at 1,30~1,60€/kg but some carter, much poorer than welds....me I find them as cost to kg also 10volte so....

it would be interesting to know and understand how they make quotes who provides processed pieces... .

 

[SHIREN]

at present I should implement the time for special pieces placements, I miss all the costs of thermal and superficial treatments at mm2....and yet one thing I can't define are the metal carpenters because as long as it is an electro-welded base you take it away at 1,30~1,60€/kg but some carter, much poorer than welds....me I find them as cost to kg also 10volte so....

it would be interesting to know and understand how they make quotes who provides processed pieces... .

to the eye and cross with the six hand

 

[bip]

It is normal that the carter have a higher price, for the carpentry the price is largely due to the cost of the material and therefore estimate it as tot/kg is a good approximation, but for light shelters the cutting, bending, and painting in proportion are more relevant, because the weight is reduced.

Besides, if they are shelters of complex shapes they also serve masks to weld them and also transport becomes more expensive, it is not enough not to throw them in bulk in a basket.


It is no longer time - and therefore costs - to estimate the price that the actual value of the job.

 

[antonio_sc]

It's been a long time since I wanted to deal with the issue of preventive mechanical parts costs.

at present, what they teach at university and what some plaque manufacturers indicate, there seemingly only exist the numerous calculations of cutting speed, effort, cutting section....mortization... an infinite longness.

what I want to do is a synthetic calculation system of mechanical parts costs. I am convinced that many workshops do as I am about to explain below, but then they do all the Puritans and do not want to reveal anything.
- raw weight and cost/kg get purchase cost
- if there are welds there will be cost/m or cost/kg or you agree 1,60€/kg all inclusive (or values like this)
- if there is annealing costs/kg
- for machine drilling you make a tabellina with holes ranges with average time for hole.... knowing that the tool machine costs 30€ man/h you attack another 15...20...25€/h....you determine a cost estimate for holes
- the total volume to be removed is calculated to be removed and knowing that a lathe removes 40 cm3/min and 2 cm3/min in finishing... time is calculated and multiplied by the hourly cost
- fixed time per machine tool at the fixed time cost to equip m.u.
- sum of all coststo comfort of what I am saying there is a beautiful publication of polgar http://web.mit.edu/2.810/www/files/readings/polgar_timeestimation.pdf where he explains what the "cantinators" do.
In fact, with a hand-made design you can't put on a g code and make the simulation for understand how long it takes ... you need something very simple.

I am currently trying and collecting unit costs to expand the computer.

what I couldn't find and that I miss are the parameters of removal of truciole in cm3/min for storage of offices for tabs, in roughing and finishing.

I miss the considerations for tempering especially for gears, chromiuming, nitriding, rubberizing etc.

what experiences and information can you share?

I need to pre-emption especially to correct the design phase:
- turned and milled flanges
- trees, spacers, pins
- gears (by the way... I miss the parameters for tooth and teeth grinding....)
- electro-welded carpenters from plates and tubular... also mixed
- perforated and threaded plate
- folded and welded sheets

Good evening, I am also interested in the subject. . . working in a workshop-free company I must admit that I have a lot of difficulty in establishing the cost of the solutions made, not having a usual previous experience (and today in an optical of "design to cost" this is fundamental). ..what I'm trying to do and collect information about surface/terrestrial treatments based on the history of purchases made ... will keep you updated...as far as bending sheet instead? and laser cutting or electroerosion? are they to be considered in the same way as classical export operations? . .

 

[meccanicamg]

bending is a folded tot plus set time.
Electroerosion and the like is a cube-shaped tot of cut more setting and construction tools if dip.

Extension filling any piece 0.1 €/kg

 

[antonio_sc]

on the internet (google books) I found the following prospect .. refers to nickel ..
I don't know how much you differ from the reality or the method adopted by suppliers .. for chromeing I don't think the speech changes much..you want to say?

 

[ggg]

- raw weight and cost/kg get purchase cost
- if there are welds there will be cost/m or cost/kg or you agree 1,60€/kg all inclusive (or values like this)
- if there is annealing costs/kg
- for machine drilling you make a tabellina with holes ranges with average time for hole.... knowing that the tool machine costs 30€ man/h you attack another 15...20...25€/h....you determine a cost estimate for holes
- the total volume to be removed is calculated to be removed and knowing that a lathe removes 40 cm3/min and 2 cm3/min in finishing... time is calculated and multiplied by the hourly cost
- fixed time per machine tool at the fixed time cost to equip m.u.
- sum of all costs

Hello everyone! It's a discussion I'm interested in and I'd like to know if there were further developments than a year ago. I am trying to collect information on measurements for turning and milling processes and I would like to know if it is possible to draw on standard measures: for example, where is it reported that a lathe removes 40 cm3/min in roughness? is there a list where these values are reported according to the type of machine and material used?

perhaps a simpler question is related to the cost per kg of raw material. where can I find this information? no precise cost, but an average value to quantify costs.

 

[MassiVonWeizen]

the removal of material by turning and milling is obtained using tables of tool dealers and inserts such as koromat, sandvik...
depending on the material to be worked, the type of processing and finishing to be obtained is tool shavings, inserts and cutting parameters; with the latter you get quantity of removal per minute.

 

[ggg]

Thank you for the answer! I was wondering if there were more general parameters to use in the design phase when maybe you still have no detailed information about which tool to use, so as to provide an approximate cost estimate. obviously referring to optimal (ideal) performance of the machine.

for example: aluminium milling - grinding - xx cm3/min.

in this way knowing the volume to be removed, the time you use and the hourly cost you can have a general estimate of the cost that will then be detailed later.

 

[MassiVonWeizen]

facendo una ricerca su google con questa phrase cost per kg of raw material I get a little pdf out of some chambers of commerce so it could be an ent to ask
insert a couple of links to the pdf found so who can maybe from a reply on how writtenhttps://smfi.unipr.it/sites/st25/files/allegatiparagrafo/.../costo_materie_prime_2017.pdf www.vt.camcom.it/gesfiles/filez/1488371343k132903.pdf with other searches I found this site where however registration is requiredhttp://www.ngi.dk/it/listino-prezzi/https://www.siderweb.com/prezzi/this instead has the list in beautiful viewhttp://www.jannone.it/prodotti_e_listini.html

 

[meccanicamg]

I posted at first a polgar guide and there are the removal values. These data can be found on the good old manuals or books of mechanical technology 30 years ago where we described the lathe parallel graces 250 and the like and the boys went all in the workshop and had it as matter to become mechanical expert.
the prices can be searched for a little but sincerely in this last period we are seeing prices.

 

[meccanicamg]

However for the cutting parameters I can assure you that those who work on behalf of third parties are very specialized and to really travel machine tools while those who work for manufacture internal use in addition to having machines too old do not know how to use full controls and often they still lose to want the coordinates of the milling center...and know every mm of advancement than they have to raise to make a big bevel.. .

 

[meccanicamg]

until a few months ago, the materials had a stable cost even if not as a time. with the fact that the extraction of materials is entrusted to Chinese companies and the demand has exceeded the production, has created a dual problem i.e. little material and costs a lot, so that some steel sellers have preferred two axes their customers who did not have the material in the house rather than selling it at the disproportionate market price.

however on average before the casino you had:275 a 0,75 deciliter/kg
355 a 0,85 Kings/kg
c40/c45 a 1,05 indication/kg
39nicrmo3 a 1,725/kgall this in plates or laminated rounds.
if you look for a tube you can multiply even for 2 because some measures are really a disaster to find.
forgeds cost about one x 1.2 compared to the above.

 

[cristian.andreon]

try this: https://cnconline.info

 

[luis]

I happen by chance in this discussion, I just want to say that when you talk to me about cm cubes of removal I am laughing because from ex-turner with experience from 14 to 28 years I had the opportunity to work in my workshop on parallel, vertical, traditional and cnc lathes, traditional and cnc cutters, alesatrici with frame in cast iron and readattate with cnc, and beautiful sparkling new 5 axes machines, with body parts. on a cnc machine to the maximum 10 mm with advance 0.15 mm per lap, on a diam tree, say 200/400 mm, for me small.
on a traditional lathe with a 25 mm centesimal viewer with an advance of 0.3mm per lap. the same for the milling and for the converted alesatrici cnc.
I when I have to make 5 pcs of a 400 diam tree that goes down to 200 mm for one meter on one side and one meter on the other, with a traditional lathe make me 4 per day, with cnc machines 2 per day + the program. the same is also applicable on the small parts, now we are accustomed to seeing all sparkly pieces with advancement of 0.1 mm to round everywhere, maybe turn 200/ turns in + though where a piece does not work, where do not mount bearings, pulleys, etc a finish at 0,30 is fine the same, means a third of the time.
Unfortunately if quardi the cutting tables of tool builders do not get us nada. on the stainless steel they give you high speeds and advances from pensioner like me, on the contrary unless you want to vibrate the lathe or the mill until you get out of the workshop push with the advancement and decrease the turns. I make an example: the forged to be cured after the 30/50 qt roughing in Italy work them in 4 or 5, because the modern machines, and I had the test personally, remove to the maximum 15/20 mm. with a vertical lathe of the 80's you shot 40 mm also to cut interrupted, and the guides did not make a fold.
I would just like to say that sometimes we do everything with cnc lathes but maybe some budget for small series on traditional lathes, with very tenacious steels you will certainly find them mooolto + low.

 

[stevie]

I am doubtful of such a simplified approach... meter or kg welds...work costs based on the removed material ignoring geometry and criticality, programming times and squares ignored.. I don't believe it.

 

[meccanicamg]

I am doubtful of such a simplified approach... meter or kg welds...work costs based on the removed material ignoring geometry and criticality, programming times and squares ignored.. I don't believe it.

In reality those who work with to make quotes drvrobbe do the simulation that n the various programs and with those determine time and costs.
Surely I can tell you that in the everyday life of the brianzole workshops you do that much to the piece.... similar prices but never equal, even on identical piece made by the same workshop...so they do not follow scientific methods of calculation.

 

[meccanicamg]

I am doubtful of such a simplified approach... meter or kg welds...work costs based on the removed material ignoring geometry and criticality, programming times and squares ignored.. I don't believe it.

do you propose your method of calculation?