calculation cost equipment and resumption molds, and calculation total life molds

[marko952008]

good morning to all, I would need a hand with the calculation of the various costs for estimates, especially with the cost of the first mould equipment, with the calculation of the total life of the mold and the cost of shooting.

Thank you in advance.

Mar

 

[meccanicamg]

take in good manual of molds. calculated the wear of the punches and the cost of processing. You look at everything.

 

[marko952008]

I can't find a good manual explaining the functions of hot stamping with clutch barbells, and also contemplate wear calculations.
I have "the manual of the moulder" and the manual of the mechanical engineer"

 

[Meteor02]

I didn't realize if you're a moldist and want to speed up the creation of the quote or if you're a designer and would like to know the cost of the equipment for a new project that you're going to realize?
In the first case some software help (especially toptron should help a lot, but nn use it so it is just to hear it).
In the second case, leave any assumptions you will never be reliable, ask for a quote to those who go to realize the equipment, too many variables in play, from simple hourly cost to how the tool thinks to design the mold.
instead to calculate the life of the mold it is necessary to ask the printer who has knowledge of the materials that will go to print the working temperatures of the mold and the intervals of cleaning and ordinary maintenance.
the rest are just assumptions that they are likely to argue with suppliers.

 

[marko952008]

I didn't realize if you're a moldist and want to speed up the creation of the quote or if you're a designer and would like to know the cost of the equipment for a new project that you're going to realize?
In the first case some software help (especially toptron should help a lot, but nn use it so it is just to hear it).
In the second case, leave any assumptions you will never be reliable, ask for a quote to those who go to realize the equipment, too many variables in play, from simple hourly cost to how the tool thinks to design the mold.
instead to calculate the life of the mold it is necessary to ask the printer who has knowledge of the materials that will go to print the working temperatures of the mold and the intervals of cleaning and ordinary maintenance.
the rest are just assumptions that they are likely to argue with suppliers.

I first should make the estimate of the mold (mould life and cost of shooting), tooling and raw piece (with developments and times), at the confirmation of the estimate I should design the mold for the production.

 

[Meteor02]

is the exact opposite of how the job must be done. you can not make the mold estimate unless you realize the mold in your workshop, it is impossible to quantify the time cost at home of another, too many variable size milling machine needed n° of axes and amortization etc. only for the milling operation + electrorosion, surface finishes etc. etc.
Usually we proceed to realize the mathematics of the particular, we show to someone with the necessary experience (printer, consultant who will usually compare with the tool) then make the necessary changes to make the particular printable at the right cost according to the batches of production. now that you have the definitive mathematics you can proceed with the design of the mold and only to completed project you are able to provide a estimate of the mold.

 

[Meteor02]

I'm bringing you for example the last job I'm completing.
product fiat spray, sebs material, batches of 500 pcs manual molding.
supply mold in hand to the customer 40,000 euriii previewed 4 trolleys 2 to free the piece and 2 to make of fixing holes.
I have analyzed the mathematicians, oriented the particular according to a different axis of extraction asked to change the inclination of a plan and to reposition the writings, made to accept 2 holes slightly oval. so doing I have eliminated all mold movements, so it is no longer necessary to produce a steel mold, made in ergal tot 13000 euros approximately.

 

[marko952008]

is the exact opposite of how the job must be done. you can not make the mold estimate unless you realize the mold in your workshop, it is impossible to quantify the time cost at home of another, too many variable size milling machine needed n° of axes and amortization etc. only for the milling operation + electrorosion, surface finishes etc. etc.
Usually we proceed to realize the mathematics of the particular, we show to someone with the necessary experience (printer, consultant who will usually compare with the tool) then make the necessary changes to make the particular printable at the right cost according to the batches of production. now that you have the definitive mathematics you can proceed with the design of the mold and only to completed project you are able to provide a estimate of the mold.

you are right, I have little experience in this field and also online there is not much about die speech. However the mold we create it by means of milling and electro-erosion (I know the times of processing of machines and depreciation). we say that we do everything in the house from the mold project, to the mold itself in the workshop and finally to the final printed piece (through friction press). So at the end of the story to get all the information I should have to ask in the equipment?

 

[marko952008]

I'm bringing you for example the last job I'm completing.
product fiat spray, sebs material, batches of 500 pcs manual molding.
supply mold in hand to the customer 40,000 euriii previewed 4 trolleys 2 to free the piece and 2 to make of fixing holes.
I have analyzed the mathematicians, oriented the particular according to a different axis of extraction asked to change the inclination of a plan and to reposition the writings, made to accept 2 holes slightly oval. so doing I have eliminated all mold movements, so it is no longer necessary to produce a steel mold, made in ergal tot 13000 euros approximately.

with the pieces we make we say that already the extraction axis is almost always standard, we have no variations or pieces that could make us change the price according to that.

 

[Meteor02]

then the best way is to proceed with the design of the piece, design the mold and pass everything to the cam that will give you the working time for the various parts (here you will have to choose a milling machine and the working times change a lot from model to model) with the working times you will have an idea, remain excluded the couplings and finishing. Unfortunately every " tool" has different time costs we say that an average for a cutter 3 axes is 70 euros/h and about double for a 5 axes.
I don't understand why you don't ask the supplier directly?
for the duration/frequency of the interventions also here the material of the mold is evaluated the finishing and polymer used and the ordinary maintenance carried out. "loaded" polymers give a greater wear as well as geometries that force a high pressure post, others create corrosive gases that damage surfaces. we say that a steel mold will have an extraordinary maintenance every 100/150000 bars.

 

[TECNOMODEL]

the supplier is himself.
what you do not understand is how they have worked so far.
You'll have some data on the job you do, right? you will know the time costs, how much time you need to mill the mold, how much to do the adjustment etc. who better than you can make the quote?

 

[marko952008]

the supplier is himself.
what you do not understand is how they have worked so far.
You'll have some data on the job you do, right? you will know the time costs, how much time you need to mill the mold, how much to do the adjustment etc. who better than you can make the quote?

No no, my question was another one that fortunately yesterday I managed to get there. thanks the same for the help because you have been very helpful and I will do the same with you.
I would have another question but it is outside this discussion, because I have a doubt. Should I open another discussion?