carbon pipes

[giamlel]

hi sail,
Thanks for your post, you're actually right... I try to explain myself better.

I am already doing the bill of the maid with excel to employ carbon fiber tubes for various mechanical applications, and stressed above all by bending, where I set the various modules and mechanical resistances.

I would however like a specific software for composites where it is possible to compose the various layers and that also analyze tubular structures. I have heard about this forum of laminator that I will certainly acquire seen the price; I was wondering, however, if any of you used other composite software, composite star or other. As an alternative, how did you suggest me to use a fem program and among them which do you feel most suitable for composites?

Thanks again
Mar

 

[peloritano]

msc patran and nastran

 

[Onda]

Hello, jamlel,

Sincerely I believe that laminator is more than enough for tubes, but I do not think that composite star gives much more than some criterion of exotic crisis and graphical bellisimi

You need to understand what you're looking for from your software. laminator or composite star serve two main objectives:
the first is to assemble the various layers to have 'appearing' characteristics of the laminate.
with these 'appearing' features solve the structure and then determine the deformations and tensions in the laminate using the normal beam theory for example.
inserting the tensions inside the laminator you can go to see how the single layer is loaded, and then evaluate its stress.

with a fea program, the solution of the structure is entrusted to the program. if then modeled with beam elements (trave) is to you using precisely still laminator starting from the tensions determined by the fea determine the tension state in the individual skins.
Otherwise, by modeling a shell element structure (slow) you can model all individual skins directly and the work done by laminator is done this time directly by the solutor.
in the prepost you can then display tension and deformation of each individual skin.
as they have indicated you valid (and dear) are patran as pre-post and msc nastran as solutor.

I add as prepost femap or hypermesh (less dear to patran).
in nastran; nx nastran as solutor.
otherwise ansys, although in my opinion for composites, especially at pre-post level is slightly lower than the various nastran systems

 

[sail]

Hello, jamlel,

Sincerely I believe that laminator is more than enough for tubes, but I do not think that composite star gives much more than some criterion of exotic crisis and graphical bellisimi

You need to understand what you're looking for from your software. laminator or composite star serve two main objectives:
the first is to assemble the various layers to have 'appearing' characteristics of the laminate.
with these 'appearing' features solve the structure and then determine the deformations and tensions in the laminate using the normal beam theory for example.
inserting the tensions inside the laminator you can go to see how the single layer is loaded, and then evaluate its stress.

with a fea program, the solution of the structure is entrusted to the program. if then modeled with beam elements (trave) is to you using precisely still laminator starting from the tensions determined by the fea determine the tension state in the individual skins.
Otherwise, by modeling a shell element structure (slow) you can model all individual skins directly and the work done by laminator is done this time directly by the solutor.
in the prepost you can then display tension and deformation of each individual skin.
as they have indicated you valid (and dear) are patran as pre-post and msc nastran as solutor.

I add as prepost femap or hypermesh (less dear to patran).
in nastran; nx nastran as solutor.
otherwise ansys, although in my opinion for composites, especially at pre-post level is slightly lower than the various nastran systems

quoto in toto wave.

I add, however, not knowing your level, to be very attentive to the results that come out of the finite elements, most of all in the use of composites and in rigid structures characterized by thin parts.

a not perfect knowledge of what you are doing can lead to colorful images that then have little if not any relevance to reality.

In this respect the norms and accounts in excel give more security thanks to the empirical and sufficent formulations.

If you want to study the compositions more thoroughly a good starting point could be the military handbook on composite design (or something like that, now I don't have it) freely downloadable from the internet. It will give you a good infarination especially of the problems and complexity of what we are talking about.

 

[User1]

you can create them! Procured two or three layers of carbon fiber, two layers of glass fiber to be laid outside and inside the tube, a two-component called a/b 9309 pink color, to be interposed between one layer and the other of the fiber, while externally and internally you will place the fiber of glass that from a smoother surface, and if you have a self-clave leave it inside for at least an eight-hour cycle, while if you are a DIY try to iron the fiber layers with fiberglass as much as you can, let polymerize for 24 hours, even if it would be 12 hours at the end of room temperature, and done :finger:

 

[Onda]

ma che film hai visto??

 

[sail]

No, he's right.

In fact, following the same principle I do not go to the dealership if I have to change the car.

I'll take a piece of aluminum, I'll make holes, I'll attack a chassis and four tires, I'll make gas and go.

 

[User1]

hi wave, hi also to you sail, I have not seen any movies! I am a mechanical designer and work in the aerospace industry, and I can assure you that creating fiber details is the easiest thing. allow me to say it but you are accustomed to procure things by going to someone who like me can create something, paying it at high price, while I am giving you the notions and various steps to be able to work with fiber details. All right, you made me realize you're just designers but not designers! bye:

 

[Onda]

Toni, I worked at least eight years in yards. I built with my hands carbon components, pre-impregnated and wet. in autoclave and with the vacuum bag. with the pressure and infusion bag method.
We can talk about it if you want. As for your previous comment in which you feel you have passed the science, in my opinion the following information is missing:
resin what is a/b 9309? heysel? Why use this and not gurits or squats or another? Perhaps to throw a name without explaining why to use a resin or another without deciding first whether the tubes should be pre-impregnated or wet or how they should be built is useless.
You didn't indicate how the mold should be. Male or female? tubes can also be done on female molds, and often they do.
lamination: you talked about glass and carbon but not fabric weight, fiber direction. etc. and then why that glass? from my point of view it only serves if you want to isolate carbon from the surrounding environment, not for sure to make it come smooth. for that it is necessary a good mold and special resins loaded to fill the microphores.
care system: autoclave (I doubt that one has an autoclave in his pocket) if he did not need your advice but you of his. vacuum bag on male mold, perhaps the simplest system. thermoshrinkling on male mold, for tubes is a great system. pressure bag on female mold, for complex tubes is perhaps the only system. simple wet lamination, for those who have no equipment.

Besides, how do you give a time of care without giving a temperature, and the post cure then where did you leave it?? forgotten? ?

coming to your last comment, denotes even greater superficiality than the previous one, and no humility. How do you make a judgment without knowing us, without reading what we have previously written? are we designers and not designers? And what did you understand? from the skepticism with which we commented your post so superficial?
Good day
wave

 

[User1]

:finger: hello wave, I'm not a scientist, I just gave a few hints about how crafty you can create fiber details, thinking not to have an autoclave, (unless you have one). I have not exposed a detailed procedure of what you have to do (it was not my intent), I have not indicated in the specification of the material in so much detail (it was not my intent), you have not said anything new to me in your answer, but I just think that after what I initially exposed, you will surely go to document you. I do not want to minimally affect your sensitivity, but I am one of those that projects after creating them on paper, go to create them in the practical act! We could spend hours and hours talking about the processes in composite material, or maybe mechanical processing, but I can assure you that after 11 years of work in the field, I saw people reading a procedure on a manual, they learn it by memory and when they really see what they have to do, they don't even know where they are. I wish you a good day anyway! :finger:

 

[Onda]

You're still giving judgments without knowing the people and what they did.
Did I document? It can be. Do I have experience? This can be too.

remains the fact that you wrote a post that was completely useless and out of context, as no one asked how to build pipes but only how to calculate them.
remains the fact that you are arrogant and you think you have to deal with ignorant.

If I didn't give you any useful information, I wrote something that makes sense, and maybe for others it can be useful.
If you're going to reread your sense post, you'll find little, besides being out of the demands of previous posts.
If you want to continue to believe you are the best in the class and give us ignorant to all of us, do it, but in addition to saying it in words give us some sign of your superiority.

Good day

wave

 

[User1]

I'm not the best! I'm just saying to you that you're not an ignorant (I wouldn't let you tell anyone), the meaning of the ignorant word and much more of what you mean, but it could be all the less educated! your opinion on my post counts little, on this forum you try to create debates about designs of all kinds, without thinking of being the best, there are people in this forum who could give high level design lessons first to subscribed, so do not do as the overwhelming majority of people who always think they are attached! I'll let you think about who takes such your behavior. Don't be sick!

 

[Onda]

I think you don't just want me here, but also sail, so I used plural.

hi wave, hi also to you sail, I have not seen any movies! I am a mechanical designer and work in the aerospace industry, and I can assure you that creating fiber details is the easiest thing.

Moreover what has expressed judgments dropped from above of his great experience is you

allow me to say it but you are accustomed to procure things by going to someone who like me can create something, paying it at high price, while I am giving you the notions and various steps to be able to work with fiber details.

and other offensive judgments:

All right, you made me realize you're just designers but not designers! Hi.

Maybe it's the case that you think about what you wrote before you continue to give judgments.
are (we are) attacked, and if you read what you wrote you can see it yourself.
Perhaps it would be just the case of apologising and closing this discussion instead of climbing on mirrors

greetings
wave

 

[User1]

I don't have to apologize for anything, maybe you didn't understand well, I explain well! in the last message I sent I wrote that I didn't give you ignorant! Then you are the person who doesn't understand what people say, you don't have to interpret people's words to your liking! I didn't say you were an ignorant! Now I ask you a question: do you understand me? I don't ask you: if I explained! the concept is quite clear.... .

 

[Onda]

I think instead of yelling, you should read what I wrote.
I realized that you didn't give me any ignorant, but the tone and what you wrote was saviour and offensive.
However, it seems to me that we have nothing good about it, so it is useless to continue to waste time.
greetings
wave

 

[User1]

You finally realized that I didn't give you some ignorant!:finger: now how long it takes you to understand that I didn't want to offend you?!? !

 

[Onda]

I don't know what you wanted, I know what you wrote.
If you don't buy it yourself, it's useless to talk about it.
greetings

 

[User1]

If it's an offense for you to say you're a designer and not a designer? Bo!

 

[User1]

I'm not the one who said, but what movie did you see? ?
All right, there's no worse deaf than anyone who doesn't want to hear!

 

[Onda]

I'll tell you again. You've done a useless post and out of theme and I've made a joke.
to which you responded in a saviour and offensive way.

It is not an offense to be called designers, but it is an offense when you say that we are not designers, especially by someone who has no judgment on it.

Then about the deaf, I don't understand if you talk about yourself or me.
greetings