cost execution welding

[lucadileta]

Hello everyone,

I have to perform a redesign analysis of a welded tubular frame in order to simplify and reduce the costs. At this point I turn a fem simulation to equate the rigidity of the various versions that I designed I have to assess the costs for the individual variants and therefore I should evaluate the costs of welding for having a total estimate. on the forum I read that a tig welding costs on 7/8 euro per kg. Does anyone know where to find cost estimates based on the type of welding (coated electrode, tig etc...)? regarding the execution of the frame welding of 8-20 mm thick elements which welding do I recommend to minimize thermal distortion?

p.s. the frame is solicited statically with moderate loads so we talk about s235/275 as material.

thanks to all in advance and good year
♪

 

[meccanicamg]

in the industrial field weld all with mig/mag technology that represent iiw gas welding technologies that protects the weld bath from contamination.

clearly the carpentry will have to be done well, without using poor tubes because sulphur, phosphorus and hydrogen in the cord bath make the joint easily crackable.
for maximum load capacity of welding, without chemical contamination defects is preferable the coated electrode, however industrially it is a very rare event.

the welding cord, for materials such as s235/s275/s355 has different costs depending on the thickness and type of joint. In fact, where the cordon must be made to multiple overlapping passes has a much higher cost incidence than the single pass.therefore the actual costs attributable to the welding cord are:
- material cost intake/gas etc
- electric energy cost to weld
- man hourly cost and welding machine
- costs accessories pre-works, cleaning, grinding etc

normally carpenters do not have a differentiated cost so specific, so in reality it is a lump sum or simply in hours after finishing the product (consumption).

personally, once determined the volumes and therefore the total lbs of cord to be made, I charge about 8-10 €/kg for welding cord. this value can be increased if there are particular demands of resistance, rather than special preparation etc.

another parameter to consider is that if almost everything is made of seghetto-cut tubular and assembled with soldering it could have a total cost of manufactured around 2€/kg considering in the weight both pipes/plates and cords. if the tubulars are clearly special measures or not available in the immediate warehouses, here is a cost of 5€/kg for the same thing.
If, however, everything was obtained from laser/oxidation cut plates and welded, we could have a saving and have a cost of the manufacture of about 1,60€/kg.

for some carpenters the cost discourse is reversed and there are those who cost less to do as a tube....and this you know only by talking to the carpenter who has realized both the frame "old style" and that will realize the frame "new style".

 

[meccanicamg]

to make all the structure much more homogeneous and not tensioned, I recommend a replenishment of distension costs 0.1€/kg after welding.
keep in mind that in order not to blow up the pipes you need venting holes for each tube....just 6...8...10mm.

 

[gil]

esteem the cost of welding by weight, it seems to me an excessive simplification.
there are many variables, which affect price, for example
1) how complicated it is to point the frames
2) difficulty handling in workshop and difficulty positioning for the welder.
3) type of preparation (cyanphrineting), type of cord to be made.
4) desired quality level, inspections and controls to perform.

by absurdity; Six your frame is a simple 1 meter side square, with 15mm thick elements, with angle cord welding, is a simple piece so the cost per kg of cord will be relatively low.

if the frame is complex, very large and heavy, with basic dimensional tolerances, with only 10mm thick tubes, full penetration welding with many controls then the cost per kg is much higher.

therefore it is much better if you ask an estimate to one or two trusted blacksmiths and leave the cost to kg.

 

[meccanicamg]

gil is right, but if you are in the process of optimization and reingegnerization of a frame, you must by force try to estimate the welding costs. asking directly to the carpenters you will get invented costs and not comparable.
sincerely I know only a company that makes carpenters that have a high quality compared to cost, sin that only do heavy things.

 

[lucadileta]

for mechanicsmg:
thanks for the valuable and detailed information you provided to me. at the end I proceeded by limiting to the maximum the cyanfrinatures performing where possible angle welding also, as it is a relative estimate of the costs between the different variants I equated the total length of the welding cords trying to decrease them as much as possible. a question, but the tables you posted about the number of passes based on the depth where they are available?

for gil:
in fact I agree to estimate only on the basis of the weight is very simple and in the end only by making a quote you know really that death you have to die but, in my case, the executive part is at the expense of my client so I have to deal only with the constructive aspect and I need only a qualitative estimate.

thanks to both
♪

 

[meccanicamg]

tables are those of veneta metalmechanics, as procedures normally used for the realization of carpenters.
I attach their complete card for joints also for particular materials.

the method used by you is the correct one to make a comparison of solutions and technical prevention to understand the solution to be adopted as a finished product.

I stopped making carpenters with electro-welded sheets of thicknesses 10-15-20 mm all ribbed because in the end you have so many pieces and so many welds, many positions that can be mistaken and passed to monoliths with columns and plates of 150x150. few pieces, few errors, bigger but at the end less strings even if of larger dimensions and however remains more homogeneous and are not the welds to work but the piastrones. all in equal weight....about.

 

[lucadileta]

tables are those of veneta metalmechanics, as procedures normally used for the realization of carpenters.
I attach their complete card for joints also for particular materials.

the method used by you is the correct one to make a comparison of solutions and technical prevention to understand the solution to be adopted as a finished product.

I stopped making carpenters with electro-welded sheets of thicknesses 10-15-20 mm all ribbed because in the end you have so many pieces and so many welds, many positions that can be mistaken and passed to monoliths with columns and plates of 150x150. few pieces, few errors, bigger but at the end less strings even if of larger dimensions and however remains more homogeneous and are not the welds to work but the piastrones. all in equal weight....about.

thanks endless mechanicalmg, as always your advice and the material you provide are precious.

greetings
♪

 

[lucadileta]

I attach another interesting table, albeit in German, concerning the welding mag.

 

[Giacomo101]

Good morning, I know I get in a delay "from jail", but if someone interested I am processing a simple spreadsheet (I am welding engineer) for a thorough analysis of the welding costs, including all types of costs (fixes and variables), including hourly pay of the welder and cost of the cianphrine (if performed, for example, for removal of truciole).

in case someone was interested only to talk about it I remain available.

 

[meccanicamg]

It's never too late. what you want to share is well accepted.

 

[Giacomo101]

absolutely. I've been working on it for a few days (in time cutouts) to avoid forgetting something and make it more accessible. I discovered on the internet many similar products but each focused on the consumables of that particular company (so without the possibility to put "our" data). the idea was to make a product "universal", inserting less data possible to speed up the analysis. I will keep you updated as soon as I finish the draft. I stay available.

 

[lucadileta]

absolutely. I've been working on it for a few days (in time cutouts) to avoid forgetting something and make it more accessible. I discovered on the internet many similar products but each focused on the consumables of that particular company (so without the possibility to put "our" data). the idea was to make a product "universal", inserting less data possible to speed up the analysis. I will keep you updated as soon as I finish the draft. I stay available.

jacomo as said mechanicalmg your work is definitely valuable [emoji3]sent by my sm-n950f using tapatalk

 

[Giacomo101]

Let's hope! Also because the idea was to create products for both relatively large companies and for small businesses, in which the soldering is treated in my opinion quite summary (of course I only speak of some realities), and in which the rule of the "poor weld and you will see that it holds", without of course thinking about the study behind a simple cordon... obviously I do not speak of the gate to understand:roflmao

Is this a good idea?

 

[WIR Saldatura]

Good morning, I know I get in a delay "from jail", but if someone interested I am processing a simple spreadsheet (I am welding engineer) for a thorough analysis of the welding costs, including all types of costs (fixes and variables), including hourly pay of the welder and cost of the cianphrine (if performed, for example, for removal of truciole).

in case someone was interested only to talk about it I remain available.

Good morning, I would be interested in contacting you for a quote. info@wirsaldatura.it