Damage by error

[PaoloR1]

hi, it's the first time I've been writing in this "category" and thank you in advance for your answers.
the problem is this: I am a craftsman designer (use inventor and mechanical), my client asked me to develop all the drawings of oxytaglio starting from the finished design of processing, then previewing all overmetals etc.ecc. it was about to develop drawings for about 250ton of material; ok, except on two details (weight +-50kg) there was one dx and one sx, but in the "casino" I drew two dx.
As this piece consists of 5pz welded between them, my client would like to charge me, beyond the hours used for drawing, even the hours of preparation and welding of the details.
Can you tell me if the law in force provides, or if it can only charge me the hours? and in case, you know me to indicate the law.

Thank you and hello.
Palo

 

[Lucky66]

is the risk of the job who is wrong pays (only us)
if you have a good relationship divide the shopping or make the discount!!

Hi.

 

[cacciatorino]

Can you tell me if the law in force provides, or if it can only charge me the hours? and in case, you know me to indicate the law.

Hi.
I've made a lot of drawings wrong in my professional life, as I guess. Fortunately, no customer has charged me the costs, not abandoned for this reason ( once to repair a cam with the wrong profile, almost 10,000 euros have gone, to say...).

I don't know how to answer, I'm just gonna give you a "good luck" because it's okay. Your client could also try to be a little elastic, because for him that damage will represent 0.01% of his turnover, for you definitely much more. .

 

[SHIREN]

As this piece consists of 5pz welded between them, my client would like to charge me, beyond the hours used for drawing, even the hours of preparation and welding of the details.
Can you tell me if the law in force provides, or if it can only charge me the hours? and in case, you know me to indicate the law.

Thank you and hello.
Palo

is the risk of the job who is wrong pays (only us)


Hi.

Hi.
I've made a lot of drawings wrong in my professional life, as I guess. ...

Hi.
only those who do not work never wrong!!! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
the discussion must be set differently
the error must be divided between all "competitors"
in the sense that
It is true that those who drew up the drawings made a mistake
but those who came after they were also to control the work of preceded them
you so took a coffee break or were in the changing rooms of the stadium for the 1/4 hour rest
in case your customer or perhaps exclient
iso 9001-9002 etc etc.
it would be appropriate to take his team and change his profession
Good weekend
Thank you very much

 

[stefanobruno]

250000 kg x 1.8 heur per kg as in the countries of the east = 450000 heur.
If you charge a 50 kg piece, it's a bit.
to me it happened twice in the long career.
one by a mistake made on a piece that had to build in several specimens, the team of lawyers who had resolved to make me pay for n° 1 piece, the others could not charge them, was to them try one and then leave with the series.
the other time they charged us 200,000 liras on a job that for them was a few hundred million, always iire. We paid, unbelieving for such a request, after which we sent them to that country.
they returned for other jobs, we never served them again.
they have failed.

 

[PierArg]

I share the thought of shiren.

There's a guilt contest. the others who came after they did? Didn't they check the pieces before weld?

The only solution is to confront each other and look for an agreement.

Good luck with this:

 

[Er Presidente]

"Once upon a time," I know, are ancient (others creepy, cornery and saky ) on the drawings (I stamp on the copies) put a nice writing that read more or less so:

"Every error, lack or omission, must be immediately communicated to the technical office"

of the series: errors are there for sure, look for them and communicate them to me quickly.

In general, I can say that, unless I have different preventive agreements, I'm responsible for drawing not for what it does, so if I'm wrong, drawing, I'll do it again for free, different is the case if I'm wrong with the project.

The drawings are the responsibility of the customer, if he decides to get them out, it's his choice, when they come in, he has to control them.

in case of "turnkey" projects with responsibility extensions (mits that build an off-shore platform and replace the piece costs a heritage) agreements are made first on the contract and if you accept the harassment clauses (those that involve you in the consequences of your work) it is recommended to make an insurance.

The serious insurance companies demand you if the job is "sensitive" otherwise the costs of errors risk never recovering them.

Unfortunately, it's a spiny problem typical of "advices", try to solve the problem a priori, before signing the order.

a greeting

 

[SHIREN]

"Once upon a time,"

a greeting

:hahahah::36_1_11:

hello president
you caught in the sign
in fact in the case of mistakes is called who has drawn up the drawing to tell him that they have a prob or that I want a technical feedback
not to tell him that we charge you the cost of error
Thank you very much
My obscurities

 

[Fulvio Romano]

the problem is this: I am a craftsman designer (use inventor and mechanical), my client asked me to develop all the drawings of oxytaglio starting from the finished design of processing, then previewing all overmetals etc.ecc. it was about to develop drawings for about 250ton of material; ok, except on two details (weight +-50kg) there was one dx and one sx, but in the "casino" I drew two dx.
As this piece consists of 5pz welded between them, my client would like to charge me, beyond the hours used for drawing, even the hours of preparation and welding of the details.

Come on, it seems to me that they are desperately trying to reconcile liquidity.
Answer him: "I pay for my mistakes, so at most I'll reset your correct design. For the rest, this is my lawyer's number. I mean, you call him before he calls you... "

 

[PaoloR1]

thank you guys for the answers; They are all a source of reflection on my part. the biggest problem is that I have expiring some invoices with the customer, and before "get back" running the risk of "block" the payment, I wanted to confront you. However it seems to me to have understood that there is no rule = for all, but that the thing, if there are no chords for writing, is left to the common sense between the parties.
thanks again and good work to all.

 

[aiq]

to me in one case, I proposed to pay 50% of a modification of a mold that they had built on my design, (but study of my client).
I paid without even giving him the satisfaction of discussing it... and to fight us above (certain were affordable figures, although of all respect).
But then I said goodbye. thanks and hi to all the talk of collaboration trust and all the rest...
I'm just sorry that it was a collaboration that I kept more than they cared about me (as maybe all the collaborations).

other reflection:
if a company misses the concept of a ship and throws away years of design to remake the concept of ship itself, what do you do? go to take what polished the design of study of one of the parts that make up the ship itself?

the value of the work (cost) will always be less than the value of the "product" of the work itself... otherwise it would be beneficial. . .
and there is no insurance that would assure you for such damage or at least I don't know her.. .

hello and thank you for the contributions of all.

 

[re_solidworks]

I think it would be useful to prepare a collaboration agreement in which these responsibilities arise. to accept a job you make a contract and in the contract must be cited these clauses or should be considered accepted the above agreement document.
I've been thinking about it for a while and I'd like to get it compiled or corrected to a lawyer. I think it's the only way to get clarity right away and black on white. the reverse of the medal is the loss of some customer. If these clauses had to "protect" too much the design study some customers might turn elsewhere or to deal beyondmeasure on the price of collaboration as it does not include responsibility.
In any case, I think it's better to have a few customers unless some extra scratches...

 

[Er Presidente]

I think it would be useful to prepare a collaboration agreement in which these responsibilities arise. to accept a job you make a contract and in the contract must be cited these clauses or should be considered accepted the above agreement document.
I've been thinking about it for a while and I'd like to get it compiled or corrected to a lawyer. I think it's the only way to get clarity right away and black on white. the reverse of the medal is the loss of some customer. If these clauses had to "protect" too much the design study some customers might turn elsewhere or to deal beyondmeasure on the price of collaboration as it does not include responsibility.
In any case, I think it's better to have a few customers unless some extra scratches...

I think that this type of "standardization" of relationships with customers (especially today in crisis) should be at the first point of the agenda of category associations. instead of thinking about making "cartel" on lists that then so much does not respect anyone, a beautiful "standard contract" at national level could help to make clarity and to "sveltire" the solution of litigations that then serve only to fill the pockets of lawyers.

 

[Marcos555]

Hello paolor1

I think that you are responsible only for your drawings and pieces made with your drawings, but not for laying on. Your client has a team of climbers who doesn't realize he's mounting a left or a right, it's his problem.

and then take someone in your organic educate him on the technical design, and maybe alternating between design and control in my country is said “two eyes are better than one”.

Look, it's important that an initial slum of metric room and control would make you grow.

 

[PaoloR1]

I bring you to know that according to my lawyer, (use his words): "the relationship between you and your client can be legally framed as a work performance report, governed by Articles 2222 and following c.c.." They're my cabbage. I have to pay for the damage to the customer due to negligence, imprudence, imperative or otherwise attributable to me. Be careful, and above all keep in mind when you make a price.

Paolor

 

[Fulvio Romano]

No, wait, don't be so short.
Article 2222 says that you are responsible for the work provided, not explicitly of the damage that the client may suffer during the transformation of the work into something different.

Article 2226 also says that even the client should have checked.

I mean, you're sure the azzeccagarb, uh, the lawyer, didn't tell you: "Yeah, you're in a bad mess, would you need legal advice?"

 

[gerod]

No, wait, don't be so short.
Article 2222 says that you are responsible for the work provided, not explicitly of the damage that the client may suffer during the transformation of the work into something different.

Article 2226 also says that even the client should have checked.

I mean, you're sure the azzeccagarb, uh, the lawyer, didn't tell you: "Yeah, you're in a bad mess, would you need legal advice?"

I agree with you!
It's to prove the damage.
And then I wouldn't trust the lawyer.

 

[PierArg]

...
And then I wouldn't trust the lawyer.

quoto!
At the bottom, he also brings water to his mill:tongue:

 

[IPdesign]

We all passed, even the undersigned had to put us back for wronging the position of a dowel in a mold of 0.012 mm.
you have read 12 thousandths of millimeter well.
when the client told me I didn't want to believe it, but seeing that it wasn't a joke I preferred to agree and greet him for the future.

 

[PaoloR1]

the lawyer's answer:
the relationship between you and your client can be legally framed as a relationship
work performance, governed by Articles 2222 and following c.c.
is defined as a contract of work, the relationship according to which a person is obliged to perform
towards a consideration a work or service with work mainly own and without
bond of subordination to the client.
the relative contract does not necessarily require the written form, being able to be also a
simply verbal agreement between the parties.
the commissioned work must be performed and delivered to the client-committee as well as
agreed, therefore without errors or omissions, of quality and with the characteristics promised and
agreed between the parties.
the acceptance of the work by the client, without any remonstration, frees the lender
of work from any responsibility for difformity or vices of the same.
this, however, provided that the difformities or vices of the work are – at the time of delivery – known
to the customer or from him easily recognizable.
the customer who finds in the work received vices or difformity regarding the commissioned,
must denounce such shortcomings to the lender within eight days of discovery and promote
a legal action against him within a year of delivery (Art. 2226 c.c.).
in that case, pursuant to art. 1668 c.c., the contractor shall be entitled to compensation for the damage,
because of the work lender, he derived it. the “colpa” must be understood as negligence,
imprudence, imperience, of the lender of work.
in the case of species you have made drawings for a customer. However, these drawings have resulted in
the basis of material realization of the project that they represented, affected by such errors, by
entail the remaking of the pieces to which they referred.
the errors you made – probably for disregard and therefore for negligence,
imprudence, imperience – I imagine they were not obvious and therefore easily recognizable by its
client, stranger to the industry.
Consequently the acceptance of the drawings by the client does not constitute
sufficient behaviour to exempt it from responsibility.
if your customer, come to know the errors in the process of realization of the material work
“final”, he had the readiness to report to you the shortcomings encountered within eight days from
its discovery, will certainly have the right to compensation for the damage which consequently is
derived, therefore, additional expenses incurred for the remaking of the work “final”.
on the contrary, if the errors you have made can be easily recognizable by your
customer, or if, regardless of this, they have been brought to your attention late
compared to the eight days prescribed by law, nothing will be due.

also according to my insurance is worth the above. Boh...