do you know cadmatic?

[OOTB]

a greeting to all friends of the forum of cad3d.
as from title I would like to "save" those who know this Finnish sw that I personally use for more than 10 years.
you can retrieve information and free eborowser on site www.cadmatic.com but for those who want to really deepen, they are available.
I attach a screenshot of a work session... .

See you soon.

marcobi but what do you use to generate piping classes in the modeler? are you handy for every project?

cadmatic interested me, I was looking for arguments about it and I registered to respond to this topic.

for me to do all the classes by hand and hook the components of the catalog is a company that makes it waste a lot of time, it takes a generator (or maybe I got used too well myself)

Hi.

 

[MarcoBi]

marcobi but what do you use to generate piping classes in the modeler? are you handy for every project?

cadmatic interested me, I was looking for arguments about it and I registered to respond to this topic.

for me to do all the classes by hand and hook the components of the catalog is a company that makes it waste a lot of time, it takes a generator (or maybe I got used too well myself)

Hi.

I'm not sure I fully understand your question. in any case the classes are done with a "video" procedure that allows you to choose the components from the catalog and enter them in class.
I don't know how to explain better... I'll get you a screenshot.
But what seems important to me is that, unlike other sw, even new parametric components can be created autonomously and associated with the dimensional tables. no geometry limit.
See you soon.

 

[MarcoBi]

. and I forgot: no one leaves 0 to make a class. copy and rename the most similar class and edit/update the specific content.:biggrin:

 

[OOTB]

. and I forgot: no one leaves 0 to make a class. copy and rename the most similar class and edit/update the specific content.:biggrin:

I allow myself to dissent partially, it is true what you write if you handle 5 classes and 100 isometrics, but for projects we do with saipem, eni, etc.. where maybe there are 70 classes and their encoding should be used... Let's say that the approach you suggest is at least suicidal.

with such a volume of information think I don't have a material manager who, downstream of the modeling, I also care about the take-off out of the cad is unthinkable.

Hi.

 

[MarcoBi]

I allow myself to dissent partially, it is true what you write if you handle 5 classes and 100 isometrics, but for projects we do with saipem, eni, etc.. where maybe there are 70 classes and their encoding should be used... Let's say that the approach you suggest is at least suicidal.

with such a volume of information think I don't have a material manager who, downstream of the modeling, I also care about the take-off out of the cad is unthinkable.

Hi.

Look, I've been working for the same clients for over thirty years.
Maybe I didn't understand your question. if you can express. . Maybe I'll answer you.

"with such a volume of information thinking that I don't have a material manager who, downstream of modeling, I also care about the outgoing take-off from the cad is unthinkable. "

translate, please.. .

 

[OOTB]

Look, I've been working for the same clients for over thirty years.

I don't understand what this phrase means.

Maybe I didn't understand your question. if you can express. . Maybe I'll answer you.

no problem, if you work from 30 with saipem you know that their material manager is called "gespi" for the generation of line classes and "picom" for the management of take-off material and requisitions (for purchases use sap)

historically they have always used pds (in milan) and pdms (in fano), the group that occupies the cad does not make the specs by hand in pds but have an external program to gespi that seems to me is called "manta" that produces the pcd files to load for the purpose in pds.

each component ends in pds with the unique code (brand) that is subsequently imported into picom when downloading the material from the modeler, then ends in the requisitions, in the purchases to sap and to the yard in gemapi (their software of the yards)

a fano do the same thing but use puma to generate pdms specifications and to manage the material during take-off and requirementson

Now you're telling me that when you work for them, you do it by hand in the cad? and how does the brand attach to the components on the catalog? but above all the take-off you handle it with excel?

"with such a volume of information thinking that I don't have a material manager who, downstream of modeling, I also care about the outgoing take-off from the cad is unthinkable. "

translate, please.. .

I didn't seem to have to translate but maybe it's clearer now.

 

[MarcoBi]

. .

I didn't seem to have to translate but maybe it's clearer now.

Okay. Now it's clearer.
cadmatic is a particularly open and flexible program that allows a strong customization. for saipem we use our macro that converts the data extracted from model in the required format.
Identical what we do for material lists in puma (we did it for example for dancers and we are in progress collaboration with the sw house that produces puma), we did it to interface with the sw marian and we do it for all the other societies with which we collaborate and that they are available to form the structure of their database. similarly we did it for saipem fano and all the companies that have their own material manager.
changing topic, but always about cadmatic, I will also tell you that to avoid the monopoly imposed by sw like pds, pdms etc., we developed in collaboration with other a converter that allows to fully convert the data of a smartplant file or naviswork (pds/pdms) into a cadmatic ebrowser file. this to allow you to use a single viewer while having models developed with other sw.

if you need other info (such as cadmatic dynamic interference control or analytical stress prg interface, are available.

See you soon.

 

[numero1]

. and I forgot: no one leaves 0 to make a class. copy and rename the most similar class and edit/update the specific content.:biggrin:

I agree... I did it 5/6 years ago for siemens.

and they are not small...

 

[MarcoBi]

the initial question was "how do you generate classes in the modeler".
Obviously no one thinks of the automatism that saipem has created to generate pcds for pds (automatism created to overcome the many blasphemies that all those who have had the fortune to work with pds know).
I thought about the classes in cadmatic environment, a comfortable interface that allows to define which components are present.
Of course that for those who are forced to work with pds create classes is a beautiful bitch... but in any case, who has not been equipped as a saipem, does exactly as I said: start from a class with rating and equal corrosion surcharge and change the necessary occurrences, branch tables etc. etc.
Moreover in cadmatic, just because it is a particularly "open" sw it is always possible to add fields to the database and use them for customizations also pushed.:finger:

See you soon.

 

[telecad]

Hello marcobi,
I'm learning cadmatic (the company bought it recently) and I would have some questions to ask you.
from cadmatic to what extent can you export? is it possible to display in ships instead of in ebrowser?
when I modeled with pdms I extracted presentable isometric files (at most they were "passed" in autocad for a further customization), while those extracted from cadmatic are real gums. is it possible according to you through a targeted setting to get readable iso and with information similar to the iso of pds and pdms? regarding stress analysis, with what program do you do it? Thanks, bye.

 

[MarcoBi]

Hello marcobi,
I'm learning cadmatic (the company bought it recently) and I would have some questions to ask you.
from cadmatic to what extent can you export? is it possible to display in ships instead of in ebrowser?
when I modeled with pdms I extracted presentable isometric files (at most they were "passed" in autocad for a further customization), while those extracted from cadmatic are real gums. is it possible according to you through a targeted setting to get readable iso and with information similar to the iso of pds and pdms? regarding stress analysis, with what program do you do it? Thanks, bye.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
naviswork does not read cadmatic source files, so if you want to use naviswork instead of eborowser you must first export your file to autocad.
I prefer not to ask why of this choice because, of course, given your inexperience, you do not catch it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
for isometrics depends a lot on the setting you make. as for isogen, if you can't fully customize the setting (in alias) you won't get good results. in cadmatic it is important to set the maximum number of components for isometrics avoiding creating isometrics of a line with many components that force the program to create a sketch of difficult reading (what you call gums, because of your lack of knowledge of the prg)
the only activity that normally cadmatic requires, for isometrics with many components, is the "system" of labels that could overcome other information. ovvia to complex isometrics, frazionandoli in multiple pages that, unlike isogen, are easily manageable automatically.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
it is possible, with targeted settings, macro and what else to get the same quality offered with alias-isogen. cadmatic is a fully customizable program and, if the model is built correctly (freedom included) you can reach a qualitative std very similar to that achieved with the right set of isogen in pds or pdms. of course the information must all of us and all must be correct.
as you know, they say in computer science: garbage in, garbage out!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Finally, to say that "at most retouch with autocad the extracted isometrics" is not a advisable procedure and denotes a superficial knowledge of the program (pds or pdms) and the isogen module.

if you need more info...

 

[numero1]

I repeat that I do not know cadmatic, but if the source files of the latter are not read by navis this does not lay in favor of cadmatic.

ok for the other 2 points, although I still have to find someone who knows everything isogen.

and look that it is not a criticism to anyone.
I had as it an ex inter..... and knew isogen + what well ........ but the mess always burst.
small or large, if small after the first iso was put in place if not, it touched you to pray that ns. it solved (sometimes with notes) the problem.
isogen of pds in fact is veryoooo macchinoso.

agree instead on the fact that it is not advisable to retouch with autocad but ........ Do you know how many times I've been asked (sometimes imposed) to do that?
And so what do you do? I was retouching and greetings.

Hi.

 

[telecad]

ciao marcobi, thank you for your answer.
small clarifications:

1 "I prefer not to ask why of this choice because, of course, given your inexperience, do not take it."2 I don't know how you work but how I work.

navisworks is the most comfortable and most used sw for the 3d model review and
coordination of large files from the most used sw on the market. Why export to ships? simple: for large-scale jobs engineering is usually cured by multiple companies so in the spaceships you can insert the work that you have done yourself and all the elements (temporary and final) that will be integrated with the work in progress. With ebrowser you only see what you did to you and nothing else. So if you didn't get there alone it's not that I " don't take "See my inexperience."

3 if the customer wants to send the ship to cadenzati step, you can not tell him:
"but why don't you use ebrowser? It's better! "
Otherwise he suggests you go see your contract again.

4 " isometrics of a line with many components that force the program to create a sketch of difficult reading (what you call gums, because of your poor knowledge of the prg) "I never wrote " isometrics with many components ", but only isometrics.
by screeds I also mean iso composed only by tube curve tube that are however enterpriseable to the customer. You're right when you say it has to be set but I model, I don't run the program administrator so I asked you about it.

5 Finally, to say that "at most retouch with autocad the extracted isometrics" is not a advisable procedure and denotes a superficial knowledge of the program (pds or pdms) and the isogen module. never written "at the most touch with autocad extracted isometrics", ma at most they were "passed" in autocad for a further customization (and I wrote it in Italian).
by customizations I mean all those additions in the folder requested by the customer and that programs are not able to do even if configured in the best way. so it is not that I have a "surface knowledge of pds or pdms" just because you did not think about this.
I thank you again for your info and hope that next time you will reflect a moment before making considerations in the air about the knowledge of the programs.
Thank you.

 

[numero1]

ciao marcobi, thank you for your answer.
small clarifications:

1 "I prefer not to ask why of this choice because, of course, given your inexperience, do not take it."2 I don't know how you work but how I work.

navisworks is the most comfortable and most used sw for the 3d model review and
coordination of large files from the most used sw on the market. Why export to ships? simple: for large-scale jobs engineering is usually cured by multiple companies so in the spaceships you can insert the work that you have done yourself and all the elements (temporary and final) that will be integrated with the work in progress. With ebrowser you only see what you did to you and nothing else. So if you didn't get there alone it's not that I " don't take "See my inexperience."

3 if the customer wants to send the ship to cadenzati step, you can not tell him:
"but why don't you use ebrowser? It's better! "
Otherwise he suggests you go see your contract again.

4 " isometrics of a line with many components that force the program to create a sketch of difficult reading (what you call gums, because of your poor knowledge of the prg) "I never wrote " isometrics with many components ", but only isometrics.
by screeds I also mean iso composed only by tube curve tube that are however enterpriseable to the customer. You're right when you say it has to be set but I model, I don't run the program administrator so I asked you about it.

5 Finally, to say that "at most retouch with autocad the extracted isometrics" is not a advisable procedure and denotes a superficial knowledge of the program (pds or pdms) and the isogen module. never written "at the most touch with autocad extracted isometrics", ma at most they were "passed" in autocad for a further customization (and I wrote it in Italian).
by customizations I mean all those additions in the folder requested by the customer and that programs are not able to do even if configured in the best way. so it is not that I have a "surface knowledge of pds or pdms" just because you did not think about this.
I thank you again for your info and hope that next time you will reflect a moment before making considerations in the air about the knowledge of the programs.
Thank you.

I quote everything except that point 4 and last point, the program if set well must be able to make the isometric as you want, and also ..... if not what sw is??? :smile:

Obviously it must be the administrator to do this, even I model only, or better I modeled with that sw now I passed to other lids.

Hi.

 

[telecad]

bye number 1
I clarify points 4 and 5.
for point "4" : " isometrics of a line with many components that force the program to create a sketch of difficult reading (what you call gums, because of your lack of knowledge of the prg) "
as written in the first post the company for which I work has recently purchased cadmatic, and the referents of this sw are working to set the iso according to the business needs. but at the moment they have not yet reached the standard level and therefore have been commented on to improve further.
(by standard I mean the iso to which each piping modeler is accustomed to seeing after a proper settling by the turn admin). and the reason why I wrote to marcobi was only to know from one who has been working with this program the level of settaggio reached with cadmatic regarding isogen or spoolgen.
for point "5" : never written "at the most touches with autocad the extracted isometrics", but at the most they were "passed" in autocad for a further customization (and I wrote it in Italian). for further customization I mean added content requested by the customer ranging from the logo in image format (and those of cadmatics told us that their program does not accept these formats ) to the revisions and purpose of emission or "for internal review,preliminary, issue for construction , revised where indicated, etc... things that are to be added by hand in autocad environment regardless of the program used.
my fear ( having seen the first draws after the first configurations from those of the cadmatic) was that besides doing the standard work in autocad, you should also go to put your hands on the graphic aspect of the iso. these days should be completed the settings so we hope well. as soon as I have info I will comment on it.
for what concerns cadamtic stress exports to caesarii and autopipe.
number1, I'd like to ask you if you've already made iso drawings and how they show up.
thanks and hello

 

[numero1]

If you had read my posts well you would have also understood that I do not work with cadmatics, nor have I ever worked there, nor at the moment I plan to do so.
my sw experience you can see it under my nickname .... and the older one is with autocad, microstation and pds.
so, to answer your certain question that I extracted iso, but not with cadmatic.
with pds (of which I have the experience + wide) gl iso were never perfect at the first stroke, and sometimes (not always) it wanted to make them ok, but so much time, then ............ a nonsense.
when they were ok they were ok also in the cartiglio, with logo of the customer included.
first I retouched them (when required) to let them out anyway, and deliver the first step.
However, in my opinion, you have taken the right path, keep us informed.
Hi.

 

[telecad]

good day nuero1,
Yes, sorry I read but I think I had a lapsus towards the end of the text...
a question: in what sense you have, however, in my opinion, taken the right path?
Hello and thank you

 

[telecad]

p.s.:excuse the errors, I answered from the phone.
Hi.

 

[MarcoBi]

ciao marcobi, thank you for your answer.
small clarifications:

1 "I prefer not to ask why of this choice because, of course, given your inexperience, do not take it."2 I don't know how you work but how I work.

navisworks is the most comfortable and most used sw for the 3d model review and
coordination of large files from the most used sw on the market. Why export to ships? simple: for large-scale jobs engineering is usually cured by multiple companies so in the spaceships you can insert the work that you have done yourself and all the elements (temporary and final) that will be integrated with the work in progress. With ebrowser you only see what you did to you and nothing else. So if you didn't get there alone it's not that I " don't take "See my inexperience."


3 if the customer wants to send the ship to cadenzati step, you can not tell him:
"but why don't you use ebrowser? It's better! "
Otherwise he suggests you go see your contract again.


4 " isometrics of a line with many components that force the program to create a sketch of difficult reading (what you call gums, because of your poor knowledge of the prg) "I never wrote " isometrics with many components ", but only isometrics.
by screeds I also mean iso composed only by tube curve tube that are however enterpriseable to the customer. You're right when you say it has to be set but I model, I don't run the program administrator so I asked you about it.

5 Finally, to say that "at most retouch with autocad the extracted isometrics" is not a advisable procedure and denotes a superficial knowledge of the program (pds or pdms) and the isogen module. never written "at the most touch with autocad extracted isometrics", ma at most they were "passed" in autocad for a further customization (and I wrote it in Italian).
by customizations I mean all those additions in the folder requested by the customer and that programs are not able to do even if configured in the best way. so it is not that I have a "surface knowledge of pds or pdms" just because you did not think about this.
I thank you again for your info and hope that next time you will reflect a moment before making considerations in the air about the knowledge of the programs.Thank you.

1)If you bought cadmatic, it seems obvious to me that you should use eborowser. your customers will be able to download free of charge the version necessary to navigate the model (as they do with naviswork freedom).
if then it is a "contractual" request, carry out your model in autocad and then save a .nwd file in naviswork. of course it is an extra step...

2)no comment! Are you looking for excuses, software, information or what else?

3)Evidently you do not have (or who for you does) correctly set cadmatic. I can assure you that 1 tube+1curva+1tubo is also well with cadmatic.


4)even with isogen (if you can set it up) you can do quietly unless you "return" the extracted iso. then if you have customers who on a sketch want to ask what then to your business to inquire before selling the moon.

5)Dearly, I tried to answer your questions, trying to give you information. If you think I offended you, I'm sorry, but it's obvious that if you write a post to try to find out if cadmatic does everything other programs don't do and maybe "self-personality" to your company's needs and maybe even responds to your voice commands and interprets your mood better.. then I answer you no, cadmatic is a good program, open and personalised (which is very difficult with the paired pds/microstation or pdms) but obviously requires a minimum of availability and interest from the user.


a presto.

 

[MarcoBi]

I repeat that I do not know cadmatic, but if the source files of the latter are not read by navis this does not lay in favor of cadmatic.

ok for the other 2 points, although I still have to find someone who knows everything isogen.

and look that it is not a criticism to anyone.
I had as it an ex inter..... and knew isogen + what well ........ but the mess always burst.
small or large, if small after the first iso was put in place if not, it touched you to pray that ns. it solved (sometimes with notes) the problem.
isogen of pds in fact is veryoooo macchinoso.

agree instead on the fact that it is not advisable to retouch with autocad but ........ Do you know how many times I've been asked (sometimes imposed) to do that?
And so what do you do? I was retouching and greetings.

Hi.

Number1,
protrei answer you that the fact that naviswork and smartplant review do not read a cadmatic file, does not place in them favor.
but I prefer not to argue.

Bye.