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domanda su turbine vapore

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snaroz

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Hello, we consider a steam turbine that erodes approximately a maximum power of 4 kw (so modest).
questions:
1) What size will this turbine have?
2) How much water do I need in the boiler?
3) what temperature must reach the steam and what pressure to make the turbine manage to deliver 4 kw?
Thanks:)
 
I practically have to build a steam system to which turbine are connected users that absorb no more than 4 kw of power. I wanted to know what the size of the turbine must be and how much water it takes in the boiler (and also what pressure/temperature must be brought steam).
 
Hi.
4 kw?? Does it seem awfully little to me for a steam turbine... specifically asks for an exercise you have to do? you would have many inefficiencies and high costs, as well as probably problems in the design of the machine due to low flow rates.
if steam must be, for these powers perhaps it is better an alternative engine (style '800 to understand us): better still a mci.

try to take a look here:
http://www.elliott-turbo.com/turbines.aspMaybe they have something small... but I think not less than a few dozen kw.

to calculate the required steam flow rate you can proceed in the first approximation as follows:

p mechanical power to the tree (your 4 kw)
m steam flow (incognita)
h entalpic jump (for now unknown)
n global performance (internal + mechanical: consider first hypothesis 0,7)

p = mhn

h is the entalpic leap difference between intake conditions (caldaia) and discharge (condenser or other). we fix the conditions before the discharge: Do you have to predict a condensing or counterpression system? in the first case a pressure of 0.1 bar to 35 c can be a reference, in the second depends on the pressure.
with regard to the boiler depends much on the costs and type of the boiler: Try looking at a dozen bars and steam a little overheated (you don't have to have condensation during the expansion) that temperature you need. you need to use the steam tables, or the mollier diagram or even programmers (also found free on the net) for steam calculation.

However, once you have the two conditions you can calculate the enthalpy in suction and discharge and then find the steam flow, and then try to dimensional the machine.
but have you already given cars?
 
Hi, no, it's not an exercise. I practically have pieces and wanted to do something fun. For example, from a kind of kitchen pressure cooker placed on a gas cooker I could get some steam with the force so that a small turbine can move by dispensing 4 kw? Maybe I could answer these questions with a little study, but they're still early.
Thank you!
 
Don't play with steam under pressure, it can be very dangerous.
I doubt that with a pot and a stove you can do something like that.
 
So, I've got a turbine of a turbocompressor group of a car, taken to the dig.
I wanted to build a small steam system, to get out of the turbine a power of 4 kw. This turbine must be steamed. Before we try this "passatempo", I wanted to know how much water I need and at what temperature/pressure it must be brought to ensure that the water vapour obtained has enough energy to move the turbine. because if to move the turbine and get 4 kw I have to take a tank of industrial size and bring the steam to pressures and temperatures that in the house are unreachable then I leave to stay.

Yes, I know that playing with steam under pressure is dangerous, I will be careful:)

does nothing if the car turbine is not sealed, it is not designed to be moved by steam and can grip. I just want to know how to dimensional the boiler that contains the water that will go in boiling to have steam with the force so that it can move the turbine, assuming that to it are connected users who need 4 kw. It doesn't matter for now to redemp the steam out of the turbine, nor do I care that the turbine I have is not sealed and therefore the steam disperses.
Thank you very much for the answers.
 
If I remember well in the first line, we always do the accounts of the servant by applying the equation of the motion of the fluids (energy balance for open systems) to turbines and boilers by using the thermal or mechanical formulation, but in the end the whole is directed in exploiting the ental jumps of the fluid as it has told you paul...stabilise what are the data of the project, maybe it identifies the transformations on a diagram entropico I would say that they are all accounts of this kind, quite boring... we can get hurt when dealing with pressure fluids if you work in an artisan way. . .adesso I have not read your application well but from what I know for example in industrial plants of steam production you have that the effluent vapor in the sections of fitting,junction etc. reaches, seen that the "openings" are very small, also conditions of speed and critical pressure so it is not a joke... hello

I read that you want to use a stove...I have no idea what thermal power eroghi but it seems so weak nose, you have to make some account but also I think it is too low
 
thanks for the answers. the problem is that I have not studied certain subjects yet, and what you have written I understood little or nothing.
I am currently unable to perform a theoretical study of the situation. I just wanted to know how much water I need and how much pressure/temperature you have to bring the steam to ensure that, addressing it on the auto turbine taken to the dig (to which users are connected for a total of 4 kw), it moves and does not remain steady. In particular, I was eager to know if I can handle it with a tank of non-industrial dimensions and with a bit of brace.
What I want to do is very rudimentary. I have no idea how much steam I need and what pressure/temperature; if to move the turbine I need steam under temperature, pressure etc... that can only be realized in an industry with specific equipment then I surrender:biggrin:
 
a good approximation of the fluid needed to move a car turbine is to consider the engine it was connected to.

For example, we suggest that your turbine was installed on a 1.9 turbodiesel, and taking a 3000 rpm mid-engine regimen for good your turbine swallows about 2850 litres of gas per minute, if you want to steam, you have to supply a more or less equivalent amount of steam, possibly warm enough not to condense inside the turbine (the destroyers).

Also as pressures you should be enough because the turbine of a turbo was born for very low pressures and high flows.

transforming a liter of water into steam you get about 1600 liters of steam, to make your turbine well you need something to evaporate about 2 liters of water every minute.

you can do the test with your pot putting in 2 liters of water and making a sign with a marker, add at least another litres of water and heat everything, when the water begins to boil wait for it to be dropped to the sign, at that point you have to time a minute, if the water that is left in the pot evaporates completely in less than a minute then your steam generator is enough to feed the turbine
 
Okay, thank you! I don't know what engine the turbine comes from. However, a curiosity: a car turbine (connected to the compressor) that power manages to deliver at most? that is, when exhaust gases enter the turbine and put it in motion (turning also the compressor), what are the powers in play? on a forum I read that an autotraction turbine delivers 10% of the engine power. therefore on a 100 cv turbodiesel the output power from the turbo generated by exhaust gases should be 10 cv. possible?
 
Yes, more or less I think we are in the order of the 4-10 cv, of course it varies from turbine to turbine, a turbine of a smart is much smaller than a turbine of a v8 5000cc.

consider that the turbines turn very fast (about 80000 rpm) so you have to put a reducer and part of the power will be lost in the reducing stages
 
Okay, good.
the user connected to the turbine must rotate around 4000 rpm. exist around 80000 rpm to 4000 rpm gearboxes? Where could I find him? Thank you!
 
ah cabbage is not an exercise then!

I'm not a big handyman (and it's not necessarily an advantage!) and I like at least to give a bang of accounts before making a certain test, just to understand - at least qualitatively - how I'm put.

athlon has already answered you so I don't add much. However, you should at least recover the brand and model of the turbo, so that you can search on the net some information: if you are lucky you find the curves characteristics on some site of tuning, and from there you find the working maps with expansion reports, number of specific turns, flow rates and returns (so powers). here find an example:
http://www.not2fast.com/turbo/maps/all.htmlif it is a tc group we actually talk about turbine input pressures typically around 1.5-2 bar, but you will see that on the operating curves there are also areas (possibly poor performance and rather "street") with even higher pressures.
search first the information about the tc group you have, at this point it is he who dictates everything! then we will pass to the boiler and to the rest, and see what jumps out.. .
 
Honestly seen the "home" of the construction I do not see need to push up with pression, indeed already ' 2 bar seems high as pressure to handle with improvised means, in the end the system I see it more 'as a metal bath full of water closed with a lid rested on and a short tube that placed to the turbine, with so much brace under which heats the water, honestly in



at the end would be a revised and correct version of the ancient eolipila ( http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/eolipilaGreek from the 1st century BC.
 

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