free profession

[marcodg]

Good morning, gentlemen.
I have seen some discussions about free profession, I would like to understand a little better how things are.
when it is said that a solidworks designer takes 30 euros per hour + VAT is not clear to me what his working hours are; Are you considering the total lost time? Maybe the drawing is three hours but overall it is 5 hours (go to find the customer, explains what he wants, asks you something but actually wants something a little different, etc.)
ps is correct the figure of 30 euros + iva di
thanks to all

 

[MassiVonWeizen]

I'm telling you that the 30 euros are how you value your professional value. to make a quote to the customer.
the customer offers you a job, you quantify how much you will take to deliver it (for example; modeling machine 40 hours, analysis fem 10 hours, drawings 40 hours) and make it the estimate of 90 hours x 30€ = 2700€; if then it takes 10 hours less to a surplus of gain, if there uses more you could be a parity or loss; in these hours you will also have to count the time "lost" with and for the customer.
then if there is the risk that the customer changes the project in progress you must protect yourself in some way by putting clauses in the contract.

Take what I told you with due cautele, I have always been addicted, but having worked in small studies I got to see the dynamics of the offers.

a link that could be useful to you: guide to calculation of the hourly rate for freelance

 

[marcodg]

I'm telling you that the 30 euros are how you value your professional value. to make a quote to the customer.
the customer offers you a job, you quantify how much you will take to deliver it (for example; modeling machine 40 hours, analysis fem 10 hours, drawings 40 hours) and make it the estimate of 90 hours x 30€ = 2700€; if then it takes 10 hours less to a surplus of gain, if there uses more you could be a parity or loss; in these hours you will also have to count the time "lost" with and for the customer.
then if there is the risk that the customer changes the project in progress you must protect yourself in some way by putting clauses in the contract.

Take what I told you with due cautele, I have always been addicted, but having worked in small studies I got to see the dynamics of the offers.

a link that could be useful to you: guide to calculation of the hourly rate for freelance

thank you so much for the answer, I am very far from making this decision but strongly teases me the idea

 

[TETRASTORE]

is correct as expressed by @massivonweizenHowever, it is necessary to distinguish at least a couple of situations.

the first is that if the work entrusted to you is not homogeneous and does not belong to a total project, you will proceed with a predetermined time cost, in this case you will quantify all the hours that you will dedicate daily to that activity; at the end of the work, or at established intervals, you will proceed to the accounting of the hours.

the second is in the case that it is a well defined project of which you have all the elements in order to quantify the time necessary and to formulate a quote to the customer; you can indicate or not your hourly cost but what generally interests is the final total cost.
as mentioned in a previous post it is important to always foresee a type clause: "additional activities and/or unforeseen changes will be quantified apart from the hourly cost of....".
to do this it is important to detail as much as possible the various items of the quote.

personally, for personal experience, I am against the indication of the timely cost for the execution of a project without declaring the necessary hours because this favors the inefficiency in practice, if you are good and costs more than me that are incompetent, you may be discarded by the customer enticed by a lower hourly cost that however in the end will find a total cost (my) higher because I use much more time than you to do the same job.

 

[marcodg]

is correct as expressed by @massivonweizenHowever, it is necessary to distinguish at least a couple of situations.

the first is that if the work entrusted to you is not homogeneous and does not belong to a total project, you will proceed with a predetermined time cost, in this case you will quantify all the hours that you will dedicate daily to that activity; at the end of the work, or at established intervals, you will proceed to the accounting of the hours.

the second is in the case that it is a well defined project of which you have all the elements in order to quantify the time necessary and to formulate a quote to the customer; you can indicate or not your hourly cost but what generally interests is the final total cost.
as mentioned in a previous post it is important to always foresee a type clause: "additional activities and/or unforeseen changes will be quantified apart from the hourly cost of....".
to do this it is important to detail as much as possible the various items of the quote.

personally, for personal experience, I am against the indication of the timely cost for the execution of a project without declaring the necessary hours because this favors the inefficiency in practice, if you are good and costs more than me that are incompetent, you may be discarded by the customer enticed by a lower hourly cost that however in the end will find a total cost (my) higher because I use much more time than you to do the same job.

I was actually doing two calculations and the margins I see are really low, it almost doesn't match at digits of 30 per hour

 

[biz]

I was actually doing two calculations and the margins I see are really low, it almost doesn't match at digits of 30 per hour

30 euro per hour is clearly excluded.
no, no less than 30 €/h. never devalue you, rather it refuses work. personally under 29 €/h, but just for the most trivial jobs, I do not go down. you can also reach 40/50 €/h depending on the complexity of the work, or even more. If you are enrolled in the food and you have to sign the prices rise and a lot. I know professionals who pay even 150€/h, or more. That's right when you take responsibility. If there's any way people's lives go to the criminal, of course.
depends also on the tax regime you are part of. This affects a lot. I find out, for example, the fact that a freelancer pays 5% (on 78%) up to 85k of annual turnover.

 

[Atreiou]

depends also on the tax regime you are part of. This affects a lot. I find out, for example, the fact that a freelancer pays 5% (on 78%) up to 85k of annual turnover.

true, but only the first 3 years, then passes to 15%, + inps + accountant
, and do not miss any expense because the same are forfeit in 22% turnover for which you do not pay the taxes.

 

[marcodg]

30 euro per hour is clearly excluded.
no, no less than 30 €/h. never devalue you, rather it refuses work. personally under 29 €/h, but just for the most trivial jobs, I do not go down. you can also reach 40/50 €/h depending on the complexity of the work, or even more. If you are enrolled in the food and you have to sign the prices rise and a lot. I know professionals who pay even 150€/h, or more. That's right when you take responsibility. If there's any way people's lives go to the criminal, of course.
depends also on the tax regime you are part of. This affects a lot. I find out, for example, the fact that a freelancer pays 5% (on 78%) up to 85k of annual turnover.

My greatest fear is that, 30 euros between customers who do not pay and small dead periods make you go to take what a worker takes. I think if you miss the bread everything starts to be resized.
but in fact, what do you mean by work from 40 euros? what degree of complexity do we talk about? I realize structures for machines mainly, hoods, things like that, and I have good familiarity with solidworks; in my work I never did fem analysis, it is not necessary. for this work you (if I can give you some you) how much would you ask right now?

 

[marcodg]

true, but only the first 3 years, then passes to 15%, + inps + accountant
, and do not miss any expense because the same are forfeit in 22% turnover for which you do not pay the taxes.

I admit my deepest ignorance about the matter iva; However, yes, I know that it was with the lump sum not the discharge.

 

[Atreiou]

no, I did not mean 22% VAT, but 22% derived from 100-78 for which you pay 5 or 15% tax.
It is usually the lump sum, but I might be wrong, it is free, my wife, for example, is crafty and is free, perhaps depends on the atheistic code, I don't know

 

[biz]

I admit my deepest ignorance about the matter iva; However, yes, I know that it was with the lump sum not the discharge.

And we'd miss it, you don't pay any taxes.

My greatest fear is that, 30 euros between customers who do not pay and small dead periods make you go to take what a worker takes. I think if you miss the bread everything starts to be resized.
but in fact, what do you mean by work from 40 euros? what degree of complexity do we talk about? I realize structures for machines mainly, hoods, things like that, and I have good familiarity with solidworks; in my work I never did fem analysis, it is not necessary. for this work you (if I can give you some you) how much would you ask right now?

hypothesis:
_365 days (1 year)
_104 days of weekend
_40 days between holidays, holidays and illness
_30 days of updates
therefore 191 actual working days (theoreticians).
take the annual net you would like to achieve the divide for 191 and you know how much you should earn per day.
consider all expenses of course.

 

[stevie]

My greatest fear is that, 30 euros between customers who do not pay and small dead periods make you go to take what a worker takes. I think if you miss the bread everything starts to be resized.
but in fact, what do you mean by work from 40 euros? what degree of complexity do we talk about? I realize structures for machines mainly, hoods, things like that, and I have good familiarity with solidworks; in my work I never did fem analysis, it is not necessary. for this work you (if I can give you some you) how much would you ask right now?

Yours seems to be a simple modeling job. . No calculation, no analysis. .difficultly you will get more than 30 €/h.
My modest opinion is clear.

 

[Atreiou]

I believe that it is to distinguish the work of modeling, like: the customer has a piece and wants it to draw it.. by a designer who has to measure and put on his own to make this work. ..without entering the case of dimensioning with plans to sign. .

 

[TETRASTORE]

take the annual net you would like to achieve the divide for 191 and you know how much you should earn per day.
consider all expenses of course.

I take inspiration from this quote from the post News to make a small simulation.
Whereas the lump sum regime in the worsening condition, i.e. with a rate of 15%, which you will have only after 5 years from the opening of the activity (according to the changes made by the last government) and with a minimum hourly cost of 30 €/h avresti:tax reddito (from the economic account of the financial year + fiscally non-deducible costs)
191 days x 8 hours x 30€ = 45840 € in practice, not being able to download anything, it is your turnover.contributions inpsthe holders of a flat rate entered in the separate inps management for scientific and technical professionals, without obligation to register for an albo, calculate the contributions at a rate of 26,23% on the tax income multiplied by the coefficient of profitability (in your case 0.78), so that
45840x0.78x0.2623= 9378 € to pour to inps
the general rule of deductibility for cash (as a result, such contributions may be deducted entirely from the income for the tax period in which they are paid), so we have the final taxable which would be:final imponibile
45840x0.78-9378= 26377 € on which the rate of 5% will be applied for the first 5 years and 15% for the following (always falling within the specified ceilings).tax aliquotaconsidering the case with the maximum rate (15%), you will have:
26377x15/100=3957 €pointShe didn't have to.

your net after the various fulfillments will be
26377-3957= 22420 € per yearhere you must then consider about 900-1200 € of the accountant and some other spending.
If you have to pay rent or money for software and equipment, this value is further reduced.
All in all, it would not be bad if the work was continuous and if you did not have any other important expenses, considering that the 191 days a year of work hypothesized would allow you to enjoy part of the benefits of an employee, such as holidays, illness, weekends and free holidays, etc., also for the first 5 years, as already said, the value would be higher than the above calculated one.

in reality, then others will be able to deny me with their experiences, generally it happens that when you have a job, you can't wait to finish one before you start the next, but you will have to take over one and, often subjecting to the pressing timing of the customers, you may find yourself in the condition of having to work well beyond 8 hours, working many Saturdays, reducing the days of holidays and hoping to be always healthy or sick only all this will certainly bring benefits to the economic level but you have to realize that it will limit your social life as well.

Concluding, I would base myself on a minimum time cost limit of at least 35-40 € and open the business after evaluating what you can offer and surveying if there are companies willing to entrust you at least one first job to start.
the collaboration with technical studies.
If you are under 35 years old, it would be worth trying, at most, wrong to go a job as an employee, with your professional characteristics, you can always find it.


p.s.
to get the lump sum regime there is a clause saying:"the activity to be exercised must in no way be a mere continuation of another activity previously carried out as employee or self-employed", that I interpret in the sense that you can't work for the company you were dependent on, but that's why you'd better compare yourself to a accountant.

 

[TETRASTORE]

Yours seems to be a simple modeling job. . No calculation, no analysis. .difficultly you will get more than 30 €/h.
My modest opinion is clear.

I do not know now, but twenty years ago I provided the study of the project to external designers who in complete autonomy drew all the details by providing me with the files and prints of the constructive drawings and paid them to consuntivo 45 €/h.

 

[Mario SJPD]

usually the lump, but I might be wrong, it is exempt

If by "existent iva " you mean you don't collect it, don't download it, but you pay it on any of your purchases, exactly like a private, then you're right.

external designers who in complete autonomy designed me all the details providing me with the files and prints of the constructive drawings and paid them to consuntivo 45 €/h.

if needed there are

 

[re_solidworks]

I've been in my own for several years and I've had my experiences. the price you can do depends on what kind of customer you are able to serve. I normally work for small companies and go over 30 euros/h is not easy.
In my case it is really difficult to make sensible estimates, the products we make are very different and at first the solutions are not known, so there is not even a basis to be able to quantify. I work generally at a consuntivo and when asked for a quote I am high enough for the "varies and possible" that sometimes exceed the initial evaluations. Okay? Yes, otherwise I gladly renounce.
within a moment in this specific subject. ask you to develop 2 solutions. Then they want more. then they want help with equipment and prototyping. then they want changes to the solution they chose after the prototype, etc... and if you go to ask for an increase in budget is not okay. So, for me the price "closed" is done if I have nothing else to do and if I do it high shot, to contain all these incalculable activities.
with 30 €/h it is not advisable to hire employees or employees: When it's okay, you make a deal, as soon as there's an unexpected one, you put it back. Why increase the risk when it is certain that there will be no economic return? with 30 €/h the situation is this...
to earn more than one employee you have to do and not think about about 1700 hours a year. If you want to do 8 hours a day 5 days a week, make your holiday quiet, etc... better stay dependent.

 

[Mario SJPD]

to earn more than one employee you have to do and not think about about 1700 hours a year. If you want to do 8 hours a day 5 days a week, make your holiday quiet, etc... better stay dependent.

standing ovation

 

[MFT]

standing ovation

ri standing ovation

to earn more than one employee you have to do and not think about about 1700 hours a year. If you want to do 8 hours a day 5 days a week, make your holiday quiet, etc... better stay dependent.

as you are right, hoping that everything will be okay and that the fateful phrase does not come: the customer hasn't paid us yet (if he pays) and you see your money........ .

 

[TETRASTORE]

with 30 €/h it is not advisable to hire employees or employees: When it's okay, you make a deal, as soon as there's an unexpected one, you put it back. Why increase the risk when it is certain that there will be no economic return? with 30 €/h the situation is this...

with too low prices I also see the risk of seeing the value of your work diminished.

in my case, (society snc, until a few years ago, for study and realization technical documentation, calculations, websites, services saas, consulting, courses, a bit of design I delegated) at the beginning, after discussing and defining the project with the technical and marketing managers, I had to face the manager of the purchases for which the only purpose was to lower the price without knowing minimally what it was buying and without having comparison.
all the work was at a quote with a payment of 25% anticipated for longer work and the hours for additions or changes cost 40% more.
At first it was difficult to understand this policy, but after a few years all estimates were accepted directly by technical managers without requests for discounts because they recognized an added value in what I provided.
I press that my customers were components, structured, medium-sized companies; for small companies it is certainly more difficult, but sometimes I think it is necessary to impose itself also at risk of losing that job, otherwise the concept is established: "That's a little worth."

I also agree with those who say that if I had to work in your own for 30 € I would prefer to be an employee.