full barrel + drunk wife --> software choice

[bacchinif]

Hello everyone,

I am new to this forum and I open this discussion (because I have posted in the correct section) to ask you for advice on how to proceed in relation to my training Staff e professional.

I'm still one student (product design) and my institute provides various modeling software, including:
- rinho
- inventor
- solidworks
- fusion
- siemens nx
- catia
- ptc creo
- aliasfor professional and personal use, as long as you remain a "paying" student.

I say that, I press that in the past I used a little bit of inventor, alias ed autocad 3d for rather simple and elementary models, but with none of these programs I feel to have a proper dimisticity in order to be able to feel free in modeling what I want and give space to creative solutions.

aware that:

- the perfect software does not exist: everyone has "pro" and "against"
- software is not universal: each has elective affinities

the question arises: It is undoubted that I should acquire more skills regarding modeling, but - honestly - I don't know what "software" invest.
I therefore ask your help on the basis of my vinegar:
- I would like to learn "good" at most 1-2 software, aware that you never end up learning.

- I would opt for something that is "widely" used; so to minimize problems with teamwork (present / future).

- I have no special requirements of "mechanical engineering" or similar: studio product design, therefore in certain contexts there are not even to do "assembly".

- I would like something extremely versatile, given the nature of the projects I will do: I could have to shape a ceramic vase with organic shapes as much as something more geometric and schematic.given my needs, it seems clear (maybe!) that I should "invest" on a surface modeler and one for solids, opting - at the same time - for something that is easily accessible for when I am no longer a student and I will not be able to afford stratospheric licenses.

made these considerations, my automatic response would be to learn:
- rhino
- solidworksthat - unfortunately - I have never opened (I would be happier to deepen inventor, but I see that few use it).

That said, I expect your corrections. . .

 

[MassiVonWeizen]

that of the choice of software is a topic treated numerous times.

can I express my perplexity about the fact that you declare yourself new to the forum while being enrolled since 2012 and having some messages active?

 

[bacchinif]

that of the choice of software is a topic treated numerous times.

can I express my perplexity about the fact that you declare yourself new to the forum while being enrolled since 2012 and having some messages active?

ciao @massivonweizen ,

first of all thanks for the answer.

precise saying that: maybe I misused the term "new". I certainly do not attend the forum (for some more navigated users are new), but it is undoubted that I wrote several years ago.

as much as the software argument is trite and retrite (I imagine), I couldn't find concrete answers to my questions.

in my situation, what do you think is wise to do?

thanks for the availability.

edit: If possible, I ask the moderators to move to a more accurate section.

 

[MassiVonWeizen]

Let's see if I understand:
Are you still a student (you are at the end of your studies? )
would you like to learn a widely used software (in what business and geographical area? )
would you like a software easily accessible economically (why do you want to put yourself in your own right now? What are you talking about? )

basic if you know a modeler well then switch to another is not so difficult and learning time is very much lower.
so I would say that, since you can't know where you're going to work that software will use, you can learn the most fond of your studies.

if you have read some discussions about the topic you will have seen that you end up making a list, end to yourself, which includes more or less all the main software and it is normal that it is so because everyone who intervenes advises according to their own experience.

 

[bacchinif]

Let's see if I understand:
Are you still a student (you are at the end of your studies? )
would you like to learn a widely used software (in what business and geographical area? )
would you like a software easily accessible economically (why do you want to put yourself in your own right now? What are you talking about? )

basic if you know a modeler well then switch to another is not so difficult and learning time is very much lower.
so I would say that, since you can't know where you're going to work that software will use, you can learn the most fond of your studies.

if you have read some discussions about the topic you will have seen that you end up making a list, end to yourself, which includes more or less all the main software and it is normal that it is so because everyone who intervenes advises according to their own experience.

I try to answer with order:

Are you still a student (you are at the end of your studies? )
would you like to learn a widely used software (in what business and geographical area? )

- Yeah, I'm still a student. I think I'll study for a couple of years, at least.

- I don't think there is a more "affine" software to my studies, because, as I mentioned in the first post, it is not required to use a specific software rather than just to deliver a finished product (model 3d) for representative purposes. in a few words: I could so much use alias as well as inventor who, clearly, have different approaches. Nobody cares what I used.

would you like a software easily accessible economically (why do you want to put yourself in your own right now? What are you talking about? )

- the will to learn a "standard" or a software "widely used" comes from the fact that you can work (today, as well as tomorrow) without having to stay converting files on files or running into errors. This speech is valid both in the workplace and as a student.
to give you an example: recently my partner used solidworks and I was forced to import the model into inventor, convert it and make some changes. This has caused not a few complications.
My fault or your fault? Maybe nobody... but if solidworks is more used than inventor (and in projection it will be for the next 10 years), then perhaps it makes sense to invest there.

- when I talk about an affordable software I don't mean anything in particular. I simply mean that: autodesk offers software for free to those who have a verified institutional mail, but the same thing does not solidworks (for example).
Let's say that in two years the studies end, but my institutional mail will remain active... I assume I will have more ease of access to autodesk software than dassault systèmes.
What's that?

if you have read some discussions about the topic you will have seen that you end up making a list, end to yourself, which includes more or less all the main software and it is normal that it is so because everyone who intervenes advises according to their own experience.

That's what I wanted to avoid: that this thread ended up in the classic feud between who uses software rather than another.
I don't care about anything to argue that something is better than anything else: I just want to maximize the result "minimizing" (where possible) the effort. translated: learn software that will have support over the years, which will be used in university and professional fields.

p.s. of course thank you very much for the answer. It wasn't my intention to be the classic turn troll user who always ask the same things.

 

[wert]

I think you don't have to worry too much about which you fall into knowledge. rather you have to understand if your work will be more oriented to industrial design and, in that case, you might decide to specialize in a surface modeler (and if it were, I would choose rhino).
Thinking of a solid modeler, in my opinion, when you learned the 3d modeling rules, then between a cad and the other you just need to learn the commands. but also here... If you go to work in a company, you will certainly be able to become productive as soon as possible (courses or advice from colleagues). if you want to leave immediately, there will also depend on the customers you will find... Some will require you to use their cad, and in this case the matter might complicate a bit in economic terms.

 

[bacchinif]

I think you don't have to worry too much about which you fall into knowledge. rather you have to understand if your work will be more oriented to industrial design and, in that case, you might decide to specialize in a surface modeler (and if it were, I would choose rhino).
Thinking of a solid modeler, in my opinion, when you learned the 3d modeling rules, then between a cad and the other you just need to learn the commands. but also here... If you go to work in a company, you will certainly be able to become productive as soon as possible (courses or advice from colleagues). if you want to leave immediately, there will also depend on the customers you will find... Some will require you to use their cad, and in this case the matter might complicate a bit in economic terms.

Thank you very much for the clear and relatively reassuring answer.

Honestly, I still don't know what my "road" will be because for the next two years I still have to deal with university projects, so I could also work on something that minimally does not require a surface modeler.
of the series: I could work on projects of "product" (e.g. ceramics / furniture) where a modeler for solids is enough and advances... as well as on something more "industrial-related" where, instead, having dysfunction with surfaces could help in creating more complex forms.

in any case: having never used rhino, I would say it is definitely time to start. Could be helpful in the future.

by chance here on the forum can you direct me to certified courses and proven utility? on the net there is everything and more and the risk of paying something to find yourself watching video-tutorial in style youtube is high.

 

[Stan9411]

When I talk about an affordable software, I don't mean anything in particular. I simply mean that: autodesk offers software for free to those who have a verified institutional mail, but the same thing does not solidworks (for example).
Let's say that in two years the studies end, but my institutional mail will remain active... I assume I will have more ease of access to autodesk software than dassault systèmes.
What's that?

any serious academic institution will disable your access to academic software licenses even if your institutional mail remains active at life.
said that, even if you forget to do so, it is illegal to use student licenses to work. is written in the contract that appears when installing the software, that no one reads why they all go to the end where there is the button “I accept and continue”

 

[bacchinif]

any serious academic institution will disable your access to academic software licenses even if your institutional mail remains active at life.
said that, even if you forget to do so, it is illegal to use student licenses to work. is written in the contract that appears when installing the software, that no one reads why they all go to the end where there is the button “I accept and continue”

eye, I'm not saying that my licenses will remain alive: when I stop paying taxes, they turn off by default.

I just say that some software houses (see autodesk, spotify or other...) simply need an institutional email verified to ensure discounts and student downloads. in this perspective, autodesk - theoretically - could guarantee educational software to life, but correct me if I'm wrong.

Obviously, then, that I'm not saying I want to work using a license; students: we would miss it! I just say that having installed (and working) a software to model on my pc is something unreliable, regardless of whether it is student, worker, freelance, has my own study and so on...
In short, if here you should advise me to spend (minimum) 3.000€ per year for ptc I create without being sure to work. . Maybe I'd think twice.

 

[Stan9411]

I just say that some software houses (see autodesk, spotify or other...) simply need an institutional email verified to ensure discounts and student downloads. in this perspective, autodesk - theoretically - could guarantee educational software to life, but correct me if I'm wrong.

ah but if that's why all the software can download them.

installing it is another speech.

if your institutional e-mail address is removed from the database of users entitled to software, when you launch the installer, he no longer finds a license to know what features of the software install on your pc.

is the famous file that anywhere on youtube teach you to cracckare (unfortunately), which has nothing to do with executables that download from the software-house site.

even if you have a software “student” already correctly installed on your machine, when your email will be removed from the right, the license associated with that software will turn off automatically, you will launch the software is only a beautiful error window will appear.

 

[bacchinif]

ah but if that's why all the software can download them.

installing it is another speech.

if your institutional e-mail address is removed from the database of users entitled to software, when you launch the installer, he no longer finds a license to know what features of the software install on your pc.

is the famous file that anywhere on youtube teach you to cracckare (unfortunately), which has nothing to do with executables that download from the software-house site.

even if you have a software “student” already correctly installed on your machine, when your email will be removed from the right, the license associated with that software will turn off automatically, you will launch the software is only a beautiful error window will appear.

Clear! Maybe some things have changed since the login is required to start the software.

 

[MassiVonWeizen]

Look, you're just being mental.
first of all because in order to learn well even one software means to smear us head much more than a couple of hours a day or to complete a course and maybe to do its certification; and frankly said in 10 years for your admission you do not have the familiarity with 3 software which means, I hope, that studies do not allow you to deepen them, what would change with a new one?
then because if you do not know where you go to work one is worth the other, unless you know for sure that in the area where you live there is a great preponderance (at least 70%) of a specific software.
maybe in the beginning you will not even make the product design, but the copyer of boards with autocad, or compiler of separate... .

the will to learn a "standard" or "widely used" software comes from the fact that you can work (today, as well as tomorrow) without having to stay to convert files on files or to run into errors. This speech is valid both in the workplace and as a student.
to give you an example: recently my partner used solidworks and I was forced to import the model into inventor, convert it and make some changes. This has caused not a few complications.

does not work so in the world of work; if you work for a company you have no problem converting files because within the company there will be precise directives on the type of files to use and when a file comes from a supplier or customer you take what comes; if you work on your own or you learn at least 4/5, but even more if you do both surfaces and solids, or you arrange to convert.
Your partner's can do well with a client, what are you doing? and put the sign "I only work with xyz"
If you go to work in a company the cost of the software you do not care and any version you want to use at home puts you in a bad position.

I just say that some software houses (see autodesk, spotify or other...) simply need an institutional email verified to ensure discounts and student downloads. in this perspective, autodesk - theoretically - could guarantee educational software to life, but correct me if I'm wrong.

even if your institutional mail was valid, if you are no longer a student the software "student" you cannot have it and you cannot use it

Obviously, then, that I'm not saying I want to work using a license; students: we would miss it! I just say that having installed (and working) a software to model on my pc is something unreliable, regardless of whether it is student, worker, freelance, has my own study and so on...

I will tell you that it is unreliable only if you use it to work and invoice, otherwise you can well do without it and believe that after 8/9 hours of office with eyes on the software that to turn it on for another 2/3 at home will be the last of your thoughts (even because the company doesn't give a damn if to make them happy you go away like a cotton louisiana collector, indeed they understand that they can suck you like

 

[bacchinif]

Look, you're just being mental.
first of all because in order to learn well even one software means to smear us head much more than a couple of hours a day or to complete a course and maybe to do its certification; and frankly said in 10 years for your admission you do not have the familiarity with 3 software which means, I hope, that studies do not allow you to deepen them, what would change with a new one?
then because if you do not know where you go to work one is worth the other, unless you know for sure that in the area where you live there is a great preponderance (at least 70%) of a specific software.
maybe in the beginning you will not even make the product design, but the copyer of boards with autocad, or compiler of separate... .


does not work so in the world of work; if you work for a company you have no problem converting files because within the company there will be precise directives on the type of files to use and when a file comes from a supplier or customer you take what comes; if you work on your own or you learn at least 4/5, but even more if you do both surfaces and solids, or you arrange to convert.
Your partner's can do well with a client, what are you doing? and put the sign "I only work with xyz"
If you go to work in a company the cost of the software you do not care and any version you want to use at home puts you in a bad position.

even if your institutional mail was valid, if you are no longer a student the software "student" you cannot have it and you cannot use it

I will tell you that it is unreliable only if you use it to work and invoice, otherwise you can well do without it and believe that after 8/9 hours of office with eyes on the software that to turn it on for another 2/3 at home will be the last of your thoughts (even because the company doesn't give a damn if to make them happy you go away like a cotton louisiana collector, indeed they understand that they can suck you like

first of all because in order to learn well even one software means to smear us head much more than a couple of hours a day or to complete a course and maybe to do its certification; and frankly said in 10 years for your admission you do not have the familiarity with 3 software which means, I hope, that studies do not allow you to deepen them, what would change with a new one?

I am aware that to learn well a software takes a lot of time and practice, we would miss it. my claim was not to become a certified professional or to know every single feature of the modeler I would use.
my request was quite simple: I would like to improve my skills to get creative freedom that allows me to design with the least possible limitations.

Plus, I don't understand what the fact that I joined the forum 10 years ago. how is this related to software learning?

does not work so in the world of work; if you work for a company you have no problem converting files because within the company there will be precise directives on the type of files to use and when a file comes from a supplier or customer you take what comes; if you work on your own or you learn at least 4/5, but even more if you do both surfaces and solids, or you arrange to convert.

I simply meant that, perhaps, it would be sensible to focus on software widely disseminated and/or that are considered working standards in certain areas.
to understand, I already know that I hardly need to learn how to use zbrush given my poor will to want to model extremely organic things and/or characters.

the field in which I will work (presumably) and I will continue to study will be that of product / industrial design.

even if your institutional mail was valid, if you are no longer a student the software "student" you cannot have it and you cannot use it

Clear, thank you!

I will tell you that it is unreliable only if you use it to work and invoice, otherwise you can well do without it and believe that after 8/9 hours of office with eyes on the software that to turn it on for another 2/3 at home will be the last of your thoughts (even because the company doesn't give a damn if to make them happy you go away like a cotton louisiana collector, indeed they understand that they can suck you like

I understand the speech on "screen fatigue", but honestly it seems unbelievable not to be able to access the software if you are home, remotely or on the road.

 

[cacciatorino]

If you have free time studied the technological processes (exporting truciole, molding, rápida profiling, etc.), which for a designer are much more useful and difficult to achieve, rather than learning to use this or that cad that is a matter of days.

 

[LaboratorioDieci]

premise that the suggestion of @cacciatorino It's gold, as far as the tools are concerned, I can only bring back my experience.
forget the concepts of "solid engine" and "modellator for surfaces". more than once I clashed with official trainers about whether or not to realize this or that thing on their software. I guarantee that modern cads have much less limitations than the "guru" they believe.
the only limitation of software very often is the operator in front of us. Are you more led to "do", to reason with your hands? Rhino is perfect for you.
Do you want to do the same thing twice? Would you rather plan your actions rather than improvise? then a procedural modeler like solidworks will be the best choice.

 

[TECNOMODEL]

premise that the suggestion of @cacciatorino It's gold, as far as the tools are concerned, I can only bring back my experience.
forget the concepts of "solid engine" and "modellator for surfaces". more than once I clashed with official trainers about whether or not to realize this or that thing on their software. I guarantee that modern cads have much less limitations than the "guru" they believe.
the only limitation of software very often is the operator in front of us. Are you more led to "do", to reason with your hands? Rhino is perfect for you.
Do you want to do the same thing twice? Would you rather plan your actions rather than improvise? then a procedural modeler like solidworks will be the best choice.

It seems a bit too much to say.
I have used many software in my experience, rhinoceros, for example, is very good in surface modeling, but if you have to make us some mechanics open sky.
the other cads work very well for mechanics in general, each more voted to an industry perhaps but substantially equivalent, if you have to create surfaces however have obvious limits, starting from inventor to get to toptron, always to make examples.
both have very few tools for surface modeling, and the same are also very basic and limited.
in my opinion, agreeing in full with @cacciatorino, I believe that the op must first understand what its field of work will be, whether superficial or solid modeling, and from here focus on those aspects, therefore choosing a software.

 

[ceschi1959]

from nx user, I do not understand the difference between solid or superficial modeler. in nx a 'superficie' is considered a solid at zero volume.

 

[wert]

from nx user, I do not understand the difference between solid or superficial modeler. in nx a 'superficie' is considered a solid at zero volume.

the fact that nx considers a surface a solid at zero volume does not mean that modeling the surfaces is like modeling a solid. the surfaces rest on free curves in space and follow rules that have little to do with solid modeling. Tangency continuity or curvature are things that you do not learn by shaping a solid.. .

 

[LaboratorioDieci]

It seems a bit too much to say.
I have used many software in my experience, rhinoceros, for example, is very good in surface modeling, but if you have to make us some mechanics open sky.
the other cads work very well for mechanics in general, each more voted to an industry perhaps but substantially equivalent, if you have to create surfaces however have obvious limits, starting from inventor to get to toptron, always to make examples.
both have very few tools for surface modeling, and the same are also very basic and limited.
in my opinion, agreeing in full with @cacciatorino, I believe that the op must first understand what its field of work will be, whether superficial or solid modeling, and from here focus on those aspects, therefore choosing a software.

I've actually made it a little easier.

It is certain that every software has some peculiarities that can make it more productive in one sector rather than in another. However as a user of both solidworks and rhinoceros, and also modeling style objects, I can confirm that the most important limitations in choosing one or another reside in the way of thinking of the operator.

 

[bacchinif]

If you have free time studied the technological processes (exporting truciole, molding, rápida profiling, etc.), which for a designer are much more useful and difficult to achieve, rather than learning to use this or that cad that is a matter of days.

thank you for the right, although for the notions of theoretical and technical nature you already think of my course of studies. between the gaps we have, in fact, all the part of modeling that has reduced to a course of a few months of 6 credits (inventor).

In short, you will understand that this was not enough.

premise that the suggestion of @cacciatorino It's gold, as far as the tools are concerned, I can only bring back my experience.
forget the concepts of "solid engine" and "modellator for surfaces". more than once I clashed with official trainers about whether or not to realize this or that thing on their software. I guarantee that modern cads have much less limitations than the "guru" they believe.
the only limitation of software very often is the operator in front of us. Are you more led to "do", to reason with your hands? Rhino is perfect for you.
Do you want to do the same thing twice? Would you rather plan your actions rather than improvise? then a procedural modeler like solidworks will be the best choice.

Honestly, until now, I have always found myself well with a cascade modeling in the inventor / solidworks style, just to be able to make successive (minor) changes.
In general, when I start modeling, it's always a little experimental. . so I need to make changes in progress.

I agree, then, that everything can be done with any software, simply with more or less effort.

in my opinion, agreeing in full with @cacciatorino, I believe that the op must first understand what its field of work will be, whether superficial or solid modeling, and from here focus on those aspects, therefore choosing a software.

I don't know this and I can't know it for the next two years, especially considering the fact that we live in an extremely fluid society where the sectoralization is leaving room for thick polyhedraic figures who can put their hands in pasta a little everywhere.

This simply to say that, in my opinion, my initial question was somewhat misrepresented and confided, perhaps, of a presumption that was not there.
I try to reformulate my question more easily and emotionally: If you were in my place now, and you had the chance to start from zero (without prior knowledge), what would you do?