genoa tragedy

[enri]

There is not a sort of dock to protect those structures, and apart from the tower, even the stoned building, which collapsed instantly, is to "filo" water, even in my opinion an error, would have sufficed a deforming element that I know, in short, something between the boat and the structures, cabbage not even reared it around the buildings the tower, is at the corner, but that they had fears for the sight?

 

[PierArg]

I mean...
It's like the airport control tower puts you in the middle of the city.

calm, we do not exaggerate with comparisons.:redface:

I'm just saying that for me (personal speaking) it's crazy to put a wire tower on the dock.
then they had their reasons but I would have done differently.
Putting it a few feet back wouldn't affect the view. point.

As far as the control towers really are concerned, if you notice, they're all out of trajectory.
That's why they don't make them in the middle of the city.

 

[Exatem]

I think I understand that there is no legislation on this.
This is because the case has considered zero the chances of such an accident.
the manoeuvres take place at reduced speed, under the control of commander, pilot, trailers, control tower. . .
a redundancy that is difficult to find elsewhere (e.g. planes land and take off without trailers and without the "pilot" of the airport at much higher speeds).
Remember what happened to linate on October 8, 2001? a md87 collided with the fog due to the fog and ended its race against the building used to sort the luggage located on the extension of the track.
had anyone ever considered before that that building was in a potentially dangerous position?

 

[PierArg]

in fact it was a very special accident: the cessna has "modified" the course of impact.
There is an unpredictable external factor.

the fact happened to genova must make worry even more because it happened during routine operations, at low speed and with the two trailers.

 

[Exatem]

in fact it was a very special accident: the cessna has "modified" the course of impact.
There is an unpredictable external factor.

the fact happened to genova must make worry even more because it happened during routine operations, at low speed and with the two trailers.

and the fact that there have been all the redundancies I listed before does not make it "a very particular accident"?

 

[Exatem]

...as far as the control towers really are concerned, if you notice, they're all out of trajectory. . .

trajectory: line described in space by a point or moving body.
in motion that is, that moves and not always, because of a x number of variables, where you want or expect.
when the unpredictable occurs, as the clash with another plane, the trajectory changes and you do not know how.

Meanwhile, some evaluations of the pollutants begin to emerge.
the shipowning company Mexican had declared: "what we cannot really accept is that the two trailers, even if the ship's machine was firm in the phase of evolution, in those optimal weather-marine conditions were not able to hold a medium-sized cargo, such as the "blackjolly", far from the docks in such a wide water mirror, in which they evoluate ships of much larger dimensions". Today it emerges that the examination on the broken cable of the "spagna" trailer, the tug that was on the stern of the "blackjolly", would show that that cable has two types of damage from which the break has arisen. a net cut on about half, and then a tear in the other half that should mean that the break was triggered by an “anomalous” bump, or against the body of the ungovernable ship or, as is more likely, for the impact on pieces of dock or debris produced by the crash of the merchant on the pier itself.

 

[Er Presidente]

often the case puts us on his own. the stern of the ship seems made specifically to overtake that small hint of protection under the tower and hit the living work of the pillar of the tower body. practically hit the tower and detached it in a single piece from the base.

Of course to see now that structure without any protection makes impressions, that it did not happen before.

 

[Exatem]

observing more carefully the photos found on the web it is known that in reality the tower was not built to bare wire but was backward of a few meters compared to it.
How many meters?
was this possible?
The black wildcard has been modified. the stern was not originally so to "beam".
as I said in a previous post, the poppiera superstructure was added later. the escalation over the original stern has perhaps made the same "mount" on the dock hitting the tower still more internal?

as murphy says, if something can go wrong, it will.

 

[enri]

If that is a metre it is already so much, I speak of the perpendicular to the red lines, of what is backward the tower, too little sincerely, considering then that a hull quietly climbs that stretch to three meters height.

 

[Fulvio Romano]

It's been there since 1600, in the middle of the hydrofoils for ischia and goats.

Surely at a greater distance than the black wildcard from the tower, but do you want to put five hundred years of errors, from jails to modern hydrofoils, passing through the pleasure gums?

 

[Exatem]

It's been there since 1600, in the middle of the hydrofoils for ischia and goats.

Surely at a greater distance than the black wildcard from the tower, but do you want to put five hundred years of errors, from jails to modern hydrofoils, passing through the pleasure gums?

View attachment 33441

But the room on the first floor appears "sezionata"...:hahahahah:

 

[PierArg]

It's been there since 1600, in the middle of the hydrofoils for ischia and goats.

Surely at a greater distance than the black wildcard from the tower, but do you want to put five hundred years of errors, from jails to modern hydrofoils, passing through the pleasure gums?

View attachment 33441

I think they're going to crash on the fringes.

the larger boats, with the passing of the years, have beveled the pier.
Don't you see it's all rounded? :tongue:
and then on the first floor (ground floor considering the building) do you not see that a piece of wall is missing on the left?

(laughs)

But the room on the first floor appears "sezionata"...:hahahahah:

ahahahahahah....l'avevo notato anche io!:wink:

 

[Fulvio Romano]

But the room on the first floor appears "section". . .

But... those are the "garage" for boats. that is the most beautiful place in the world, I have never seen anything like this, including Caribbean, Hawaii, etc.

--edit--
Ah, no excuse, the first floor is the top floor, the yellow one?
That's the porch, a sort of house view. (invidia)

 

[Er Presidente]

It's been there since 1600, in the middle of the hydrofoils for ischia and goats.

Surely at a greater distance than the black wildcard from the tower, but do you want to put five hundred years of errors, from jails to modern hydrofoils, passing through the pleasure gums?

if they had also put to genova a "turn" of "pietrons" like these, surely the impact would have been different.
I imagine that under the fur of the water the base of the protection widens considerably, the collision ship would lose much energy destroying the living work and forcing the hull to rise and, perhaps, the tower would be saved.

I think this building has been there for hundreds of years because no one's ever had a good time manoeuvring thousands of supernaves in front of the nose to see the effect it does.

if to genova it had been of inflatables, hydrofoils, galleys or even medium-sized ferries, the tower would still be there.

 

[Exatem]

Let's start talking about the facts.

the black wildcard originally was a portacontainers called axel maersk.
built at the shipyards blohm & voss ag of amburg in 1976 construction n° 892 launched on 12 December 1975 delivered on 28 May 1976 to the company a/s d/s svendborg& d/s af 1912 a/s (a.p.moller) of copenaghen- danimarca. steel hull, flat keel, square aft, bulb, mixed longitudinal transverse structure, 2 bridges, 2 partial bridges, 210.8 m long - 6,939 t.
in 1978 it was stretched to 225.0 m.
in 1984 it was again elongated at the Hiroshima yards at 239,30 m and renamed adrian maersk, turned into ro-ro and equipped for container transport. new length f.t. meters 239,26, length between pp meters 224.00, free edge mm 2637, dive meters 12,218, gross flow 30.461.
remotorized with a new diesel engine b&w type 8l90gbe at two times, 8 cylinders arranged in line, diameter mm 900 stroke mm 2180, plungers with cross head of the power of 23.389 kw at 97 turns/munto and speed reduced to 21 knots.
in 1994 it was converted into a conro ship and used by the military command for maritime transport as a ship of support during the Gulf War. the sturdy structure of the bridge of the garage, the remarkable height and, the large ramp could easily allow the load and transport of heavy armoured vehicles including tanks m1a1. is equipped with two cranes 40 t.

later renamed "sp5 eric g. gibson" owned and operated by the lines maersk, it was used with other ships to transport support materials including lubricants, medical supplies, spare parts and chemical defense equipment. on 26 June 2006 it was sold together with the Maersk arizona to Mexican ignazio and cspa of genova for about 8 million dollars. is currently used in the links between Italy, the Red Sea and the Arabian Gulf.

The night of the disaster...

around 22,45 of 13 May 2013 the black wildcard is in maneuver in the port of genova. supported by two trailers, the “genua” at the bow and the “spagna” at the stern, walks back the distance between sampierdarena (the terminal of the messina is located at the bottom of the port) and the pier lie.
Why is the convoy moving backwards?
for the configuration of the port of genova that forces the ships to access the channel of sampierdarena entering and leaving from the mouth of lever, in front of carignano. in theory there would be a second transit to the mouth of the west that is located in front of the river Polcevera (tristemente famous for the flood) but this transit is not accessible for three reasons, the bottom, the absence of an area for the maneuver and the limits imposed by the nearby airport. so if a ship enters the prora sampierdarena channel, it will have to go out in reverse and then turn in the mirror in front of the pilot tower.
not by chance the study of the new regulatory plan of the port there is the idea of making the entrance of the west agibili that would allow to enter from an ambush and exit from the other.

Back to the facts.
the genua picks up the black wildcard through a traditional steel cable while the spagna uses a modern dyneema cable.
arrived in the mirror of the sea in front of the pilot tower, the ship begins to rotate counterclockwise to exit from the port and is here that the accident takes place.
when the disaster has happened, from the fire they realize that the cable in dyneema is broken. It is a very tensile-resistant cable that can be cut as a normal top. note that the wildcard at that time is a mass of 45,000 tons with a 3 knots (less than 6 km) to which the 275 ton of the spagna are opposed (it is to emphasize that being less than 300 ton the spagna is not traced by the axes).

Let’s explain now what the two trailers are about. The wildcard is a ship built 37 years ago and uses technology that has now passed. has only a prora thruster and the manoeuvre takes place with the propeller and the rudder, therefore has very wide evolution rays. the purpose of the trailers is therefore not "training" but rather to direct it. being monolithic during the motorcycle has the tendency to "tire" on one side, made even more evident in the phase of retromarcia (the ship "tira" on the right during the march back) then the rotation maneuver happens in anticlockwise direction with stern to the north and prora to the south while the trailers help it in the evolution, the direction of rotation of the propeller is reversed to brake the abbreviation and then exit from the port. but that evening something does not work and the ship continues the hibernation pointing the stern towards the pilot tower while the trailers try unnecessarily to turn it, almost impossible manoeuvre without the help of the ship's engine. Moreover it seems that when the avary alarm is given, by now the stern is less than 70 meters from the tower that is too late to overcome the difficulty.

at this point, the engine, a b&w 8l90gbe (man group), a slow diesel 2-stroke engine that drives a fixed-step propeller. It is a system considered reliable even if technologically exceeded and that does not allow rapid maneuvers. the engine was revised in March 2013 passing the planned checks. the hypothesis of an avary to the generators that would cause a black-out with consequent block of propulsion and rudder.
Now we expect the opening of the black box that will allow a clearer reading of the tragedy and for this reason, avoid to pronounce any conclusion that would still be rushed and premature.

I attach some pictures of the black wild when it was still the axel maersk and in the already black wild basin.

 

[numero1]

always accurate and punctual thanks, I have a question....... Is it true that the trailer commanders must comply with the instructions on board the ship?

then, in a technological age like ns. of course the impact video has also jumped out:http://video.repubblica.it/edizione...a-torre-crolla/128199/126700?ref=&ref=hrer2-1On the contrary:http://video.repubblica.it/dossier/...-visto-dal-basso-il-video-tgcom/128316/126817I did not put these links to spectacularize the 3ad, but only to give a "visual" contribution to the discussion itself.
If you exatem, as moderator of this part of the forum, you feel you have to cash them....... cash as well.

Hi.

 

[Exatem]

always accurate and punctual thanks, I have a question....... Is it true that the trailer commanders must comply with the instructions on board the ship?

then, in a technological age like ns. of course the impact video has also jumped out:http://video.repubblica.it/edizione...a-torre-crolla/128199/126700?ref=&ref=hrer2-1On the contrary:http://video.repubblica.it/dossier/...-visto-dal-basso-il-video-tgcom/128316/126817I did not put these links to spectacularize the 3ad, but only to give a "visual" contribution to the discussion itself.
If you exatem, as moderator of this part of the forum, you feel you have to cash them....... cash as well.

Hi.

something I mentioned here:http://www.cad3d.it/forum1/showthread.php?37361-tragedia-genova&p=313029&viewfull=1#post313029But maybe it's more than I can forget about these things. I therefore return to him for an insight into matter.

I don't see why I should check out the links to the two videos. are images seen on TV, available on the internet.
It is not a question of speculating on tragedies but of seeking with all limits, of analyzing its causes and consequences taking advantage of the skills, the experiences gained by the cyber user of the forum.
but if I am wrong and someone thinks that you should have the delicacy of not posting pictures, say it as well and we will see to make up.
One thing I add that until now I didn't say.
a dear friend of mine and my family was directly involved in the tragedy and lost a loved one.
to him and all the other victims, my condolences and those of the whole forum go.
Thank you.

 

[Exatem]

another problem emerges, one so to say " collateral effect" of the genova disaster.
the Mexican line has received numerous requests from those who wait for the delivery of the cargo that includes, among other things, foodstuffs preserved in cold containers to allocate to the Arab and medicinal countries for the Italian troops of the isaf contingent in Afghanistan.
the armor company has asked alternatively, to move the ship to a pier equipped to the unloading of the container (the one where it is now has no crane for the handling of the container) in order to be able then to re landing on another ship and to proceed to the deliveries.

 

[numero1]

Well, I know that all the media accounted for it, but I wanted to be sure I didn't create any problems with those links.
I thank you for the answer, but I meant something slightly different.
or in cases of obvious danger, the trailers may/have to act on their own to try to avoid (if possible) the worst?
Hi.

p.s. I add this link always on the pilot tower:http://genova.repubblica.it/cronaca...i_trasferiscono_nella_vecchia_torre-59411897/

 

[Exatem]

Well, I know that all the media accounted for it, but I wanted to be sure I didn't create any problems with those links.
I thank you for the answer, but I meant something slightly different.
or in cases of obvious danger, the trailers may/have to act on their own to try to avoid (if possible) the worst?
Hi.

p.s. I add this link always on the pilot tower:http://genova.repubblica.it/cronaca...i_trasferiscono_nella_vecchia_torre-59411897/

Well, it seems pretty clear to me what is written in the post I linked to you. the trailer can not take any initiative as it is "commanded" from the command of the ship towed.
the tutor communicates by radio to the command of an imminent danger (as it seems to have happened in this case) but the decision if and how to intervene is of the commander of the ship (in this case assisted by the pilot).
We still expect the intervention of Roman fulvio that should know more.
Bye.