minimum wage for mechanical ing factotum

[TAURUS77]

Good morning, everyone! !
I usually write in the hardware section where a bit by passion and a bit by work I have accumulated a small amount of knowledge... today I would like to change the subject and ask you the question mentioned above in the title.
according to you how much the minimum wage for an experienced mechanical engineer (the other engineers working in this company with various years of experience do not exceed 1200€-1300€) that in a small company you must or you will have to take care of a little bit of everything from drawing 2d-3d to fem and cfd?
it is not my situation but that of a dear friend who in Sicily accepted for 950€ per month with 100km per day overall to go to work and meals at his expense.
are of the opinion that you can not humiliate so and that it is better to seek luck elsewhere even abroad if necessary.

 

[PierArg]

Unfortunately, this is a situation we have extensively written and rewritten.
leaving the fact that in the south (I am Calabrian at the expense of what is written on my avatar, so I know what I'm talking about:wink the situation is something that should not even fall into the statistics, I answer you with a phrase that I found time ago on another forum and that I saved myself on the desktop to try to keep me always " hungry".

I want to bring it back because I think it's a super quoton sentence... a sentence of what should be standing in front of the computer and beating hands for at least half an hour.

knowing that, being of public domain (just search on the internet), I do not transgress any rule, I carry it.
"I think there is a golden rule in the world of work as in life. only if you distinguish yourself from the mass and you can offer something that others do not offer you can aspire to adequate compensation. If we look at what happened 30-40 years ago, we find that engineers were counting on the fingers of a hand, in each of us there was the doctor, the priest, the mayor and the engineer. "good engineer," "my good engineer," "you know, naming said that ..." if you say naming then ..." and so on.

no one questioned the skills, the engineer was such after an effective selection both social and university and was "naturally good". his rewards went hand in hand to this cultural and practical supremacy.

at that time for each engineer there were 1000 masons, plumbers, electricians etc...

then things have changed and without sociocultural analysis we can say that today there are so many engineers and not all with good preparation. in this context everything has leveled down, there is more offer and if you do not accept certain compensation companies and customers find 100 more like you. our country has enlarged the head and shredded the hands and today for each bricklayer there are 1000 engineers. and often this head is not even used.

our companies then, mainly of small size, prefer productivity rather than great engineering theories.

in this picture our figure is increasingly inflated and therefore less and less able to demand the right compensation. In fact, sometimes even we are in the way of designing a plant to an engineer if any plumber can do it without any paper. Who cares if the tubes are sized double, if the boiler is poorly sized and works half the yield, if the radiators are twice as much as you need, etc...

solutions? that the university returns to be a place where there is a push selection and that the closed number is practice. We will have competent engineers and paid the right and people who will not have to live the eternal frustration in studying for years and then earn as a secretary.
My experience then tells me that you make more money if your role becomes purely technical to technical-managerial. who knows how to manage people and processes and has good leadership skills can aspire to good gains even if technically it is less than someone else. the pure role of designer chino on the desk to make calculations and drawings gives way to those who have a technical vision of together but who knows how to sell, sell, organize and manage people. all engineers know how to make calculations, but only a few can make people understand that these calculations are vital.

My advice is not to amaze the hunger salaries that are there for engineers and at least to shout at the scandal. is the market that establishes everything ... if an engineer earns 1300 euros per month is because the market has decided that what he deserves, point and just. If his activity were so precious and vital you would see the compensation rise by far. there is not much really engineering work in Italy and the engineers are too many. For this reason they must be content with salaries which should belong to lower cultural preparation bands. "

 

[TAURUS77]

I fully agree. . "except for the closed number"...I'm not surprised because I too have passed from similar situations that you want for anger you want for stubbornness I never accepted and I preferred to leave from Sicily putting myself in play and starting from scratch throwing myself to headlong in new working situations....today I still do not regret and look beyond the Alps for a better future.
you cannot and you must not resign to say "it is so". .. despite my age not fresher from the working point of view, I pray God,...., Mother nature and all that is worthy of a prayer so that I don't miss the desire to do and know that until now it has given me the impetus to move forward.. .
from this forum I write to you:
"force my friend not to bend to these pieces of m...da (I ask excuse everyone for tones) we studied together and we split our back on the books over a thousand difficulties together. . Even if you're at your first experience in this sector, you're not stupid and you don't deserve to be trampled and derided. Engineer is not who takes "the piece of paper", today of people with the piece of paper there is too much, but who knows how to look at the world with the eyes of a child ready to new adventures that does not easily surrender to the game of life and manages with intelligence and sharpness to exploit the studies he has done.
I ask you to reflect on this phrase "patria est ubicumque est bene" (traduz. the homeland is where you are well). "

by people who tear me the resume and the letter of presentation and in dialect tells me "and you who knows how I would... I was travagghiari" I do not put my feet in my head.

pierarg.. if you are of Calabrian origin you should not have much difficulty understanding my dialect.

 

[PierArg]

Yes, yes, we say 90% understand.
If you start talking about 30/40 years ago, I miss the Calabrian I understand:biggrin:

 

[Max-C]

Good morning, everyone! !
I usually write in the hardware section where a bit by passion and a bit by work I have accumulated a small amount of knowledge... today I would like to change the subject and ask you the question mentioned above in the title.
according to you how much the minimum wage for an experienced mechanical engineer (the other engineers working in this company with various years of experience do not exceed 1200€-1300€) that in a small company you must or you will have to take care of a little bit of everything from drawing 2d-3d to fem and cfd?
it is not my situation but that of a dear friend who in Sicily accepted for 950€ per month with 100km per day overall to go to work and meals at his expense.
are of the opinion that you can not humiliate so and that it is better to seek luck elsewhere even abroad if necessary.

apologize if I interrupt the poetic context :biggrin:, depending on the qualification there are "minimum" frames. in ccnl metalmeccanico, for example, a doctor (three-year degree call it as you want) must have a minimum final frame of 5 level. I want to say that, for example, if at an appropriate age, a young three-year graduate may be employed by an apprenticeship as a 3-level employee. in the course of tot years, however, it will have to be previewed of the shots that will carry it straight to level 5 (and, therefore, at least to the minimum salary of that level). the successive levels will be at the expense of its employer and its job (for each level you have roles, if the person is to carry out activities outside his job can "reclaim" (for example a 4 level employee cannot have a managerial role)).
for the masterful same speech but I think (that someone confirms it) that the minimum frame is 6.

n.b. I don't know if for the crafts industry (if so it's called) it's all the same as metalmechanical. In case your friend's company came back to this sector, let me know that I can inform you.

 

[tecnico_plast]

the speech is complicated, your dear Sicilian friend would do well to seek luck elsewhere.
I'm sorry to say, but here the companies that pay "the right" is hard to find them.
In any case, I believe that for some time even in the most blasphemed regions of the north the situation is not so much better.
the only difference is that there are many more companies and it is easier to find a fair compromise.
I stop here, I could continue and say unbearable things.

 

[meccanicamg]

in that company where you do not exceed 1200€ ask and 1000. realize that in a company not of cellarers there are 300€ all. net.

 

[Nosf3r]

apologize if I interrupt the poetic context :biggrin:, depending on the qualification there are "minimum" frames. in ccnl metalmeccanico, for example, a doctor (three-year degree call it as you want) must have a minimum final frame of 5 level. I want to say that, for example, if at an appropriate age, a young three-year graduate may be employed by an apprenticeship as a 3-level employee. in the course of tot years, however, it will have to be previewed of the shots that will carry it straight to level 5 (and, therefore, at least to the minimum salary of that level). the successive levels will be at the expense of its employer and its job (for each level you have roles, if the person is to carry out activities outside his job can "reclaim" (for example a 4 level employee cannot have a managerial role)).
for the masterful same speech but I think (that someone confirms it) that the minimum frame is 6.

n.b. I don't know if for the crafts industry (if so it's called) it's all the same as metalmechanical. In case your friend's company came back to this sector, let me know that I can inform you.

I can answer you, having experience both in industrial metal mechanics, and craftsman.
industrialists can ambition up to framework contracts (dirigence), the craftsmen manco for the piffer (Ccnl word) and the levels go on the contrary.
a graduate the third industrial level should not miss to see it with the binoculars, should enter already at least in fourth and then climb to the fifth.

direct personal experience: graduate mechatronic expert, university studies (Turin Polytechnic) to complete during work. assumed in third industrial level for 2 years. left home. I'm going to interview another company and you know what they tell me? that my frame was illegal, in the sense that I, as a graduate, the third level had to have it only for the trial period and then have the fourth as a natural level and after two years I could ambibe to the fifth.

do the due proportions for a full-fledged graduate and see what country of the piff we live in.
I completely agree with the fact that I have the university that you select, but rightly and that you really forge.
We can't do anything from there. Does it seem reasonable that it is so, after spending thousands of € of taxes and sleepless months studying?

 

[Max-C]

I can answer you, having experience both in industrial metal mechanics, and craftsman.
industrialists can ambition up to framework contracts (dirigence), the craftsmen manco for the piffer (Ccnl word) and the levels go on the contrary.
a graduate the third industrial level should not miss to see it with the binoculars, should enter already at least in fourth and then climb to the fifth.

direct personal experience: graduate mechatronic expert, university studies (Turin Polytechnic) to complete during work. assumed in third industrial level for 2 years. left home. I'm going to interview another company and you know what they tell me? that my frame was illegal, in the sense that I, as a graduate, the third level had to have it only for the trial period and then have the fourth as a natural level and after two years I could ambibe to the fifth.

do the due proportions for a full-fledged graduate and see what country of the piff we live in.
I completely agree with the fact that I have the university that you select, but rightly and that you really forge.
We can't do anything from there. Does it seem reasonable that it is so, after spending thousands of € of taxes and sleepless months studying?

by graduate do you mean master or three years?

 

[TAURUS77]

by graduate do you mean master or three years?

Master's degree old order with registration in the three sectors.

 

[TAURUS77]

apologize if I interrupt the poetic context :biggrin:, depending on the qualification there are "minimum" frames. in ccnl metalmeccanico, for example, a doctor (three-year degree call it as you want) must have a minimum final frame of 5 level. I want to say that, for example, if at an appropriate age, a young three-year graduate may be employed by an apprenticeship as a 3-level employee. in the course of tot years, however, it will have to be previewed of the shots that will carry it straight to level 5 (and, therefore, at least to the minimum salary of that level). the successive levels will be at the expense of its employer and its job (for each level you have roles, if the person is to carry out activities outside his job can "reclaim" (for example a 4 level employee cannot have a managerial role)).
for the masterful same speech but I think (that someone confirms it) that the minimum frame is 6.

n.b. I don't know if for the crafts industry (if so it's called) it's all the same as metalmechanical. In case your friend's company came back to this sector, let me know that I can inform you.

I do not think that the company can be defined as it has about 70-100 employees.

 

[TAURUS77]

I can answer you, having experience both in industrial metal mechanics, and craftsman.
industrialists can ambition up to framework contracts (dirigence), the craftsmen manco for the piffer (Ccnl word) and the levels go on the contrary.
a graduate the third industrial level should not miss to see it with the binoculars, should enter already at least in fourth and then climb to the fifth.

direct personal experience: graduate mechatronic expert, university studies (Turin Polytechnic) to complete during work. assumed in third industrial level for 2 years. left home. I'm going to interview another company and you know what they tell me? that my frame was illegal, in the sense that I, as a graduate, the third level had to have it only for the trial period and then have the fourth as a natural level and after two years I could ambibe to the fifth.

do the due proportions for a full-fledged graduate and see what country of the piff we live in.
I completely agree with the fact that I have the university that you select, but rightly and that you really forge.
We can't do anything from there. Does it seem reasonable that it is so, after spending thousands of € of taxes and sleepless months studying?

I add my testimony to yours and respond to your statement "get out of there we can't do anything."
how much I finished the studies I tried to fit into a sector other than my preparation. ..but always in the engineering field... at that time there were the last splendor of photovoltaic. a little not to look at and a little for the desire to make tests at an aunducola that promised me seas and mountains (at least the risotto I would have tasted):smile:.
precise that I had no great experience with autocad but within two months less a week I managed to make about 27-30 projects in 2d of views and sections of prospectuses of dwellings and in addition I tried to interact with potential customers, even on the electric part I didn't work with my notebook in black, I used my car to move......
I didn't even get a coffee. ..when I communicated to the owners that I wanted to leave told me that they were accustomed to higher rhythms than my 27-30 projects....you believe it? ?
the bitter in my mouth was so much but I knew that I could aspire to others and made me aware of my potential.

 

[TAURUS77]

often at work when they are with fellow Piedmontese or Emilian colleagues and I tell some episodes lived or seen personally someone thinks that it is an alien... then I ask you
It's normal.
1) a girl/woman hired in a private school is provided to him the pay envelope that then must return entirely secretly because you are there to score? ?
2) a boy with wife and two children, employed in a business, must return family allowances or half of the paid envelope provided because "if you like it or how you find another thousand"
3) a young engineer who claimed what they had promised him in his contract.... had to leave the country to look for work elsewhere because in that shitty country they made him burnt ground by letting him pass through a big planter.

 

[PierArg]

returning to the speech of the known picture that there is some confusion.

the inscription to the atbo with the frame has nothing to do with it.

talking about ccnl metalmechanical industry, for employees the picture is as follows:
- graduates or graduates level goes in the 4th level
- graduates level in the 5th level

However, the company that takes, in case of integration with training/training period, can subset the resource up to 2 levels for a period of about 18 or 24 months (depending on the level) after which it takes a level.
then, after another 12 months, you pass to the next second level.

 

[re_solidworks]

The illicit practices of so many companies should be punished by harsh sanctions, the law must be respected. remains the fact that an engineer learns too little design at the university, indeed all the new graduates I met did not know to do anything applicable to practice. At this point I also look at the counterpart: Why does a company have to pay you if you can't? I guarantee that when you spend to form a person and as soon as it is formed, he discovers that he would like another job is not a big satisfaction.
the basic problem is the very poor technical training that is given to experts and engineers (for the experts is absolute zero). eventually graduation or graduation become fraudulent certifications of knowledge (not acquired) and inflation on graduate or graduate is total.

 

[Emc2]

The illicit practices of so many companies should be punished by harsh sanctions, the law must be respected. remains the fact that an engineer learns too little design at universality

 

[Nosf3r]

returning to the speech of the known picture that there is some confusion.

the inscription to the atbo with the frame has nothing to do with it.

talking about ccnl metalmechanical industry, for employees the picture is as follows:
- graduates or graduates level goes in the 4th level
- graduates level in the 5th level

However, the company that takes, in case of integration with training/training period, can subset the resource up to 2 levels for a period of about 18 or 24 months (depending on the level) after which it takes a level.
then, after another 12 months, you pass to the next second level.

a pity that I was not an apprentice but a technical employee to all effects. That's why I risked the illegal term.

 

[Max-C]

returning to the speech of the known picture that there is some confusion.

the inscription to the atbo with the frame has nothing to do with it.

talking about ccnl metalmechanical industry, for employees the picture is as follows:
- graduates or graduates level goes in the 4th level
- graduates level in the 5th level

However, the company that takes, in case of integration with training/training period, can subset the resource up to 2 levels for a period of about 18 or 24 months (depending on the level) after which it takes a level.
then, after another 12 months, you pass to the next second level.

I don't know if it's my luck, it turns out to me that for every sub level you go to the next every 12 months until you reach the last. . .

 

[PierArg]

and already.

The sub-inquadration is now practice.

I too, for example, after 8 years of experience are still 5 level as when I started working as a graduate. I believe that most engineers after about 36 months is already 5s or 6 level.

It will also be true that in my life I never asked for an increase.

right by curiosity, what level are you on?

 

[TAURUS77]

The illicit practices of so many companies should be punished by harsh sanctions, the law must be respected. remains the fact that an engineer learns too little design at the university, indeed all the new graduates I met did not know to do anything applicable to practice. At this point I also look at the counterpart: Why does a company have to pay you if you can't? I guarantee that when you spend to form a person and as soon as it is formed, he discovers that he would like another job is not a big satisfaction.
the basic problem is the very poor technical training that is given to experts and engineers (for the experts is absolute zero). eventually graduation or graduation become fraudulent certifications of knowledge (not acquired) and inflation on graduate or graduate is total.

that universities are sometimes far from reality is a fact even if I have to tell the truth according to me here to the north universities are a little better from the practical point of view than the south that are still too theoretical perhaps because those of northern Italy have more contacts with the various industrial realities.
the step from the world of university to that of work often not pleasant you have the head full of theory and little practice but I want to say that in part it is right so you can not know everything about it and pretend to use a software, equipment or manipulate a methodology of work as a veteran of the industry.
a company that takes a graduate invests on the person both from the technical and human point of view and pays it on the basis of his real eperience and good will but such compensation must be such as to allow the individual to live dignifiedly. . I think it is the subject of this discussion.
for my experience from a direct comparison with the new levers I must say that the situations are the most varied and disparate from those who do not know the difference between power and couple to many other trivial examples. .to the daughter of an acquaintance who at the end of a course of studies in electronic engineering had not yet supported the examination of physics2...in my time in the old order if not you had all the subjects of the biennium with the cabbage that came to the fifth year.