motorized sizing on cart and translation mechanism

[bip]

Good morning.
because you don't even value the idea of making a motor that shares the two wheels diam 160 mm through a clutch wheel, maybe gummed (to increase the transmissible force), a little like it is done for the rubberized means that go to work on the railway tracks. I can't attach a photo/drawn, but if you are looking with google the operation is explained very well.

- you wouldn't have the problem of downloading part of the weight from the cart wheels and/or unbalance the load

- the wheel of the engine has a diameter lower than that of the wheel leaning on the ground, so you have a reduction ratio "gratis"

- the motor has to run a few millimeters to fit/disinsert, so you can make a very rigid and robust system with a minimum expense, wanting you can even do it manually with levers or a flyer and a screw of maneuver

- you have an excellent grip on the ground, as you can apply it to the wheels that carry more than half the load of the cart.

- not affected by any imperfections of the floor, having the same wheels as before they lean on the ground

 

[PIETRO2002]

Good morning.
because you don't even value the idea of making a motor that shares the two wheels diam 160 mm through a clutch wheel, maybe gummed (to increase the transmissible force), a little like it is done for the rubberized means that go to work on the railway tracks. I can't attach a photo/drawn, but if you are looking with google the operation is explained very well.

- you wouldn't have the problem of downloading part of the weight from the cart wheels and/or unbalance the load

- the wheel of the engine has a diameter lower than that of the wheel leaning on the ground, so you have a reduction ratio "gratis"

- the motor has to run a few millimeters to fit/disinsert, so you can make a very rigid and robust system with a minimum expense, wanting you can even do it manually with levers or a flyer and a screw of maneuver

- you have an excellent grip on the ground, as you can apply it to the wheels that carry more than half the load of the cart.

- not affected by any imperfections of the floor, having the same wheels as before they lean on the ground

but he needs the two wheels to be pivoting. . .

 

[loscienziatopazzo]

but he needs the two wheels to be pivoting. . .

correct correct correct

 

[Stefano_GS]

is manual handling essential?
Otherwise you could think of mecanum wheels.
It seems to me a difficult idea to develop but it could be an alternative

 

[bip]

but he needs the two wheels to be pivoting. . .

All four must be pivoting? a 1600 kg trolley with four pivoting wheels does not seem so easy to control when it is pushed by hand, just go around with a shopping cart, until the pivoting wheels are two, no problem, when they are four, it becomes much less controllable. .
and this cart of 1600 kg that can go in any direction without being able to control it in case of error, I would not like to have it near if instead the pivoting wheels are two, to be stopped by hand is always a disaster, but at least you can make it deviate more easily in case of need.

if instead the cart must have 4 pivoting wheels, if you accept that the wheels do not make endless turns on themselves (for the power cord), you can mount the whole system on the wheel cart, so the motor is also he pivoting

 

[loscienziatopazzo]

All four must be pivoting? a 1600 kg trolley with four pivoting wheels does not seem so easy to control when it is pushed by hand, just go around with a shopping cart, until the pivoting wheels are two, no problem, when they are four, it becomes much less controllable. .
and this cart of 1600 kg that can go in any direction without being able to control it in case of error, I would not like to have it near if instead the pivoting wheels are two, to be stopped by hand is always a disaster, but at least you can make it deviate more easily in case of need.

if instead the cart must have 4 pivoting wheels, if you accept that the wheels do not make endless turns on themselves (for the power cord), you can mount the whole system on the wheel cart, so the motor is also he pivoting

pivoting only the back

 

[loscienziatopazzo]

is manual handling essential?
Otherwise you could think of mecanum wheels.
It seems to me a difficult idea to develop but it could be an alternative

very interesting but they seem more models solutions.
Forgive me but, in my case, I do not see why to apply them

 

[bip]

pivoting only the back

then the solution to transmit the bike only to the non- pivoting wheels I had proposed, can work quietly, you just have to evaluate the encumbrances of the motor / clutch wheel

 

[Stefano_GS]

They are not modelling stuff but there are products for loads even much heavier than yours.
the reason to use them is to get an omnidirectional cart able to maneuver in even tight spaces

 

[PIETRO2002]

They are not modelling stuff but there are products for loads even much heavier than yours.
the reason to use them is to get an omnidirectional cart able to maneuver in even tight spaces

I had never seen the operation of the "mecanum" wheels, very interesting, they are not for nothing modelling stuff, if you go to see on the kuka site, you see trucks moving tons!

 

[loscienziatopazzo]

They are not modelling stuff but there are products for loads even much heavier than yours.
the reason to use them is to get an omnidirectional cart able to maneuver in even tight spaces

I meant as diffusion, for the max load I agree with you (very beautiful the video of the mule on youtube)
at the moment I had seen them only on the dji robotmaster and never in any industrial plant

However, I believe that in order to make the system work, all 4 must be motorized. in my case it is not possible.


Do you have an estimate of costs?

 

[PIETRO2002]

I meant as diffusion, for the max load I agree with you (very beautiful the video of the mule on youtube)
at the moment I had seen them only on the dji robotmaster and never in any industrial plant

However, I believe that in order to make the system work, all 4 must be motorized. in my case it is not possible.


Do you have an estimate of costs?

If you do an internet search there are the prices, I believe for your size on 70 euros per wheel, but I also think that to have a good operation you need 4, a motorized cadauna and the biggest problem you have to have a suitable software to make it work properly, in the sense that the cart can go straight, rotate on itself, go diagonally, go traverse. to maneuver in narrow encumbrance is the maximum!

 

[PIETRO2002]

If you do an internet search there are the prices, I believe for your size on 70 euros per wheel, but I also think that to have a good operation you need 4, a motorized cadauna and the biggest problem you have to have a suitable software to make it work properly, in the sense that the cart can go straight, rotate on itself, go diagonally, go traverse. to maneuver in narrow encumbrance is the maximum!

It would be nice to hear the opinion of those who have already applied them in some project!

 

[Stefano_GS]

I never applied them firsthand, I saw them operate in the company where I worked first on a sort of agv and I must say that it operated in tight spaces and with remarkable precision.
if you are looking for other discussions in which they are proposed, I do not remember if they were then given direct feedback of results

 

[Cupido]

maybe you've already solved but if you're interested I just finished installing two agvs that I designed for transporting internal doors. one with double motorized fixed and one with steering wheel. I used kelvin engines. the engines are cc even if for now I have adopted a system cmq cable and not battery.
steering wheel: klmt04612-a
fixed motor vehicle: miwd16k-25
transport of 1500kg dim. 3000x1200 h1800 to 3/4 kmh

 

[loscienziatopazzo]

@cupido Unfortunately I could not put it fixed and steering;

interesting your system, even in my system is provided a cable (and not a battery)
Are they waiting for commercials?

 

[Federico_992]

good morning and good Easter to all
@meccanicamgI tried to recreate your tab. excel is to have it available and to be able to make a direct and fast comparison.
with the data I had entered last night I got:View attachment 61551comparing the excel to your (presed by forum of 2018/2019) I have doubts regarding the calculation of power (red writings)

the schematic but real model will follow this configuration
View attachment 61552in the morning I will update it regarding fa and fv

the max load is estimated in 1600kg ..... not perfectly centered in the half-carry but almost certainly could be moved more towards the front wheels.
in the real case the front wheels have a d=80mm and the rear ones d=160
in the model I had inserted only ø160 because I considered it worsening for the work that will have to perform (about 1m advancement and just)


yes for the cylinder I will pass directly to a ø100 that in push will give me about 420dan to 6bar (but I will have to reduce it therefore I should be ok)
solid piston at the bottom of the cart

So much so that we do not miss anything, the total load could even undergo variations, orientally 1100-1600kg .... and this puts me other doubts regarding the p and the reactions exerted on the single wheel.
if I have well reasoned, with ø100, exercising 420dan are in place both for load max and for load min as I do not add any force p to the cart but allow the same to download the p_tot / nruote.


I will try to make the proposed amendments. later, thank you

Good morning I also tried to replicate the table excel and I do not return the value regarding the f.di acc of the wheel, if you kindly could express the formula you used so you can make a verification thank you.

greetings

 

[meccanicamg]

the acceleration force on the wagon is calculated as fin=m•a, then divide it by the number wheels and calculate the torque to the single wheel.