movimento barrel with electric actuator

[gtemp]

Good morning to all,
I have to make an automation for a customer.
I attach the pattern of the same in closed and open position.
in an open position I do not reach the angle of 90°, this not to reach such a position not to create a position that prevents me from closing the trap door.
It seems too easy... Is there something wrong? ?
Has anyone ever done anything like that?
Thank you.

 

[gerod]

What's the question?
If we did something like that? or if there's something wrong?
I think it's feasible!
What do you open it with?

 

[gtemp]

I wanted to open it with an electric actuator.
my doubt is, if I reach the vertical, i.e. opening at 90°, the weight force will be aligned with the hinge point, that point cinematically represents a lability point, when they start the actuator from this point to close, will the trapdoor close?
Thank you.

 

[Fulvio Romano]

Huh?
the weight force on the zipper has nothing to do with it. But what is a linear actuator? So long? with such a high angle?
No... this thing before it doesn't close, it doesn't even open. . .
if you move the attack of the actuator closer to the zipper? I mean, left in the first picture and down in the second.

 

[gtemp]

I didn't explain well.
Unfortunately the attack can not move it because I have a space limit due to a beam on which to fix the hinge of the electric actuator.
the actuator closed 366 mm and race 200 mm.

 

[Focus]

Huh?
the weight force on the zipper has nothing to do with it. But what is a linear actuator? So long? with such a high angle?
No... this thing before it doesn't close, it doesn't even open. . .
if you move the attack of the actuator closer to the zipper? I mean, left in the first picture and down in the second.

Hello, lightning, why do you say that? I "cinematically" speaking I don't see any problems.

 

[AngeloB]

charge a sketch in dwg
How much does the door weigh?

 

[MBT]

I didn't explain well.
Unfortunately the attack can not move it because I have a space limit due to a beam on which to fix the hinge of the electric actuator.
the actuator closed 366 mm and race 200 mm.

measured interasses how?
weight of the moving trabiccle?

 

[PierArg]

Hello, lightning, why do you say that? I "cinematically" speaking I don't see any problems.

hi focus, I would have said like you too.

will be that I am inexperienced...

 

[gtemp]

Sorry, I didn't want to start a long discussion.
However, as rightly suggested by angelb, here is the sketch in dwg.

 

[Fulvio Romano]

Hello, lightning, why do you say that? I "cinematically" speaking I don't see any problems.

hi focus, I would have said like you too.

will be that I am inexperienced...

I know, I'll be drinking my brain. . .
excuse the quality of the drawing, but the child wants to eat the pencil at all costs.

you are applying f, which can become the sum (image below) of f + pair c.
f force (under) has no effect, except to bother the zipper.

the pair is the one that opens the door, its intensity depends on the inclination of f and the offset.
gtemp designed the cylinder:
- practically parallel to the door (and then to force f)
- with a minimum offset
- with a high working distance and therefore a risk of peak load, impurity and piercing of the seals (if it were oleodynamic)

I don't say it doesn't work, I say it's not hygienic, since it's just the three worst mistakes that can be made in this kind of cinematism.

No?

 

[MBT]

Actually, the system works
the rear door of the cars, to understand, works in a similar way
you have to pay attention to a couple of things
the first, if the arm is very short will be necessary a great force to open the hatch, with high loads for the hinges and, if "light", also for the hatch
second, lever arms can change quickly and risk giving difficult movements to control

 

[Fulvio Romano]

Actually, the system works
the rear door of the cars, to understand, works in a similar way
you have to pay attention to a couple of things
the first, if the arm is very short will be necessary a great force to open the hatch, with high loads for the hinges and, if "light", also for the hatch
second, lever arms can change quickly and risk giving difficult movements to control

Does the gas cylinders of the hatch of a car make 90° during your excursion?

 

[MBT]

Someone seems to me even more...
However, it is interesting to note that the gas springs, in closed position, hold "closed" the hatch and have a particularly short arm. are positioned very similar to what is required

 

[gerod]

Sometimes gas springs need the way to go. I remember that of the old bmw 320 (still the one with round headlights) that had a first opening phase and then the second that you had to lift up to a certain point.
very often, in the carter of machines, the alignment of the hinges is used in order to maintain closed the carter and the operator, lifting it, starts the gas spring because otherwise it would not be able to lift (or pull).
To move that hatch, you need a good start. a spring would definitely need help.
Alternatively you can study a different cinematic system, some extra auction/try and it could work (the leverage!).

 

[MassiVonWeizen]

a pao of months ago I made a carter with vertical sliding with gas spring.
the carter flowed on guides (two simple swallows attached to the car and the bronzes to the carter) and the opening was facilitated by the spring. the carter weighed about 35 kg while the spring had a thrust of about 25; In this way the carter's weight was sufficient to keep it lowered (machine work phase) while to raise it the operator had to use a relatively modest force as it helped by the spring. then a pressure pin stuck in place when the carter was all relieved.

 

[sampom]

fulvio quoto absolutely!
that attuator is too parallel to the trapdoor; risk of "ink" the actuator himself and/or tear the hinge fixing of the stem to the trapdoor.
I do not want to say that the trap will not open, a slight resulting that pushes to the opening there is (to see the entity). only that "at the point" at the start will be raised exaggeratedly actuator and its fixings, peak loads etc. etc... All I said.
the comparison with the car hanger is not fit; there the gas piston tends to keep it closed (the one that, schematized in that way, would almost also the actuator of gtemp. just the opposite therefore). Then the hanger opens it "from the outside", and the piston pulls it down. If that barrel opened it by hand and the actuator was unscrew/folles axially, it would not bother.

 

[AngeloB]

to me it seems a functional thing, depends on the type of actuator:
if you are in the available spaces and if there is the strength to move the door

 

[Fulvio Romano]

No... this thing before it doesn't close, it doesn't even open. . .

Hello, lightning, why do you say that? I "cinematically" speaking I don't see any problems.

hi focus, I would have said like you too.

Actually, the system works

fulvio quoto absolutely!

to me seems functional

Four versus two, I'd say a little model with ice cream sticks and two chiodins. or alternatively rugged cardboard pieces.

 

[cacciatorino]

cinematically works for sure, the only thing is to check the pushes on the cylinder due to the weight of the door and to any external agents (painting of the wind, a possible rhino sitting on the barrel right now in here you want to open it etc etc.).

As lightning said, the lever ratio is very unfavorable in the closed configuration, so you'll need an actuator with force 4-5 times the door weight, big way.