oleodynamic valve design

[pesca]

Hello.
I am new to the forum and hope not to propose a post out of place.
I'm not even a designer.
work in a mechanical company (turning and milling) and I had to
what to do with the realization of valves in cartridge.
I wondered if it's worth trying to design something new
in this field, if everything has not been studied
I am especially interested in collaborating with someone experienced or with
my own passion to design/make hydraulic valves
Thank you.

 

[pesca]

known that no one is interested in my proposal
In a way I expected it
At least, if anyone's in the industry,
I would like to know what you think of such an adventure
1-in the sense that I am well aware of the unfavorable moment
2-that in emilia (and not only ) are agguerrissimini with remarkable experience!!
What future do you imagine for the holodynamics??
Are you going to lose ground against electrical drives?
I hope in considerations

 

[maxopus]

fishing, it may happen that someone does not respond quickly to the question you have placed.
It can also happen that potentially interested people, do not connect every day or that distractedly did not happen to your request, not for this reason you have to impermalose ... at least this you understand from the tone of your second intervention.

So calm and chalk, I myself might be interested in collaborations of this genre. Let's see if anyone has answers to give you.

p.s.: it is a good rule in this forum (this is indeed a meeting place) that at the first intervention we present to the other members .... see rules that you can access from the home page.

 

[pesca]

maxopus,
Sincerely I did not stand up for the lack of answers, even
Because I didn't ask for a little something.
more than anything I hope someone in the industry can give me some
"right," in the sense that it can also be absurd
try to venture into certain ideas.
Anyway for the record I am fabio and I am 29 years old
mechanical expert diploma
I do not use cad 3d even if I would like to learn how to use it
work in the azineda founded by my father with my brother + big
and some employees
we perform mechanical processing (turn + milling ) and light carpentry
(cranking presses, mig/tig welding)
type components for scooters and motorcycles (supports x windscreen , supports bag
etc.
However, we work in a variety of sectors (agricultural machinery, plant engineering)
food, furniture, etc.
I've been trying to figure out what to do to get into the market.
with my product
since I worked for an oil company
I found a lot of interest trying to figure out if it's feasible.
Try adventure
Hi.

 

[Er Presidente]

It's a "tosto" sector in the sense that it's very "mature", translated very much into the hands of international colossi.
producing an oil component today requires enormous investments in research and industrialization.

I'm personally convinced that oleodynamics still have a lot to say even if it's getting more and more assaulted by electronic drive.

Maybe it would be more affordable to push on some application, a niche where you can "make a difference."

because the production is in the hands of large groups, it tends to leave the applications maybe niche but interesting anyway.

Some ideas could be put together, but we should first understand where to go to "paration".

Hi.

 

[MBT]

look, of oleodynamics in these periods I use a little... and I assure you that blason houses have their troubles to propose efficient products and with competitive prices
if you really want to jump on the valves... informed about the valves for oxygen and gas fuels
will open a world...

 

[Meccbell]

to produce cartridge valves?
how to jump with the parachute on a minefield, in the middle of the enemy's crossfire and without having in hand I do not say a miter, but not even a fling.

look, so much to make an example, 2 large companies in my area, of which 1 is my client, for a couple of years have passed from the production "in house" of the cartridges to buy them from the Italian company stronger in the field (emiliana, so much to change), than for a few years has been acquired by their most fearsome competitor on the European market, that in turn, also to keep intact the volumes of production, has accepted to mark them.

As our president says it is a mature sector, which in order to be "agreed" with a certain possibility of success requires more than important investments, perhaps not so much at the level of research and development (now all they fuck each other), as on the front of the production plants, that to bring out a product at competitive costs and to give at the same time a good profit requires volumes of several thousand pieces per day.

and anyway china and india incombono and, for now, you save only because the brains kissed of many of our uffs. purchases to hear about made in far east go into early orgasm, pregusting the margins of gain to 2 percentage digits and bring home almost only small package that makes noise level casino (one of the biggest problems of the cartridges), or with springs that after a little stay, or even with the estates made to go ahead you that I live laughing.
the day that the chinese or those with the turban will decide to stop playing and begin to do seriously for the western market of the producers of oleodynamic cartridges will be caxxi amari.

then maybe there are niche sectors, which require levels of performance to the limits such as flow rates or adjustment accuracy, for which the price slips further in the second floor. However, in this case it is necessary to have a very solid and tested know-how, since it is often a matter of producing "one shot" or in lots often not repeatable and if it is wrong it has cut out permanently.

 

[MBT]

so much to continue with the examples, if I call 2 suppliers (resellers of oil components and representatives of 2 well-known brands) and I tell him that I am interested in a valve counter with various components, starts in ballet of discounts and incredible counter-proposals. . .
There is no margin now.. .
unless you make the incredible....

 

[stevie]

I now agree with the situation for the oleodynamics, as well as for the tire, in Italy it is mainly desperate.
Today I was asking a commercial manager of a well-known Italian tyre manufacturer because of the closure of a branch.
he told me that by moving production to Eastern Europe (which strange...) a large shed was released in which they accented the entire national warehouse. . .
As for standard components now we fight on the wire of the cents, and investments to stay afloat are very heavy, dozens and dozens of cnc machines working day and night in establishments of thousands of square meters.
you save customised designs.
regarding competition with electric drives is only a matter of time. the versatility and flexibility of electronics is not comparable to that of hydraulics, while considering the most modern proportional control systems.
Perhaps the only weak point, in addition to the price, of the electrical drives was linked to the lower developable forces, especially at low speeds, but the recent torque engines seem to be filling the gap.

 

[pesca]

hello to all and thanks for the answers
all my enthusiasm is going to roll
I have to say that anyway, knowing all the companies mentioned
(although not explicitly) and their production systems, the minor
of the evils would be able to produce with the same quality at lower costs;
The hardest thing I think is vulgarly selling
I am trying to find one/partner for design
while for production I have (at least I think) a good experience of
methodologies
I had thought of trying in the meantime to produce the "cannotto " with its solenoid intended for electric valves as I believe that many producers
they buy and do not produce it internally and there should be only one Milanese company that produces them
However thanks again to the answers

 

[PierArg]

Hi.
I answer your questions:

What future do you imagine for the holodynamics??
Are you going to lose ground against electrical drives?

I think oleodynamics is a sector that is still strong. by now in any application there are hydraulic drive systems. . Even the dentist's armchairs are no longer moved by electric motors but by hydraulic pistons.
Moreover, always in my opinion, electric drives will gain ground but they will never be able to completely substitute the oleodynamics, especially in applications where huge forces are required. I remind you, finally, that an oil plant is easy to customize (especially on agricultural machinery, earth movement, etc.), is more efficient and reliable.

As for valves, I'm sorry, but I'll have to discourage you like everyone else. Almost all companies in the industry now build them at home and, if they require high performance, they turn to the best (rexroth, flucom, etc).

 

[Meccbell]

I had thought of trying in the meantime to produce the "cannotto " with its solenoid intended for electric valves as I believe that many producers buy it and do not produce it internally and there should be only one Milanese company that produces them

But then you really want to die, huh?
see that 80% of the pieces of that part now come from the village of the rice fields and, to quote 2 names, vickers and bosh-rexroth have made plants down there dedicated to the only and asclusive production of this type of components.
They are fully robotic production lines that work in unmanned mode.
and we're always at the address for which on a canton with solenoid the profit margin will come yes and no to 50 cents, maximum 70, and the risk is to have to invest figures between 5 and 6 zeros and then find themselves to cash out of all costs yes and no few tens of euros for each production turn.

think only what it means to make copper purchases for coils by treating them as if they were oil futures contracts.
or you put tens of thousands of euros of stuff in the times when you find it at affordable prices (relatively) or if at the first reassociation stocks you can't avoid because the warehouse is almost zero you get an increase of a 15-20% (which is still little) goes to finish that all the margin you have on the finished product hardly covers the change of the price of the wire.

If you put on a canopy to sell the sandwiches in front of the stadium risk less, work less and earn much more.

 

[pesca]

As far as it is written, these are the following:
vickers do not know, but oil control (rexroth) that I know has no production facilities
in the far-east.
has various divisions (tarp, oil control, etc.) all between modena and reggio
and right at the tarp have 2 robotic plants for the bronze carryover on the canotti .
As far as copper is concerned, I cannot confirm or deny in qaunto
I've never had a problem.
also that produces only canotto + solenoid ( both standard and customised )
There's a lombarda azineda that only has the design and I believe the assembly
inside; all the processed components and other processing are carried out with third parties
in Italy!
I am sorry
Anyway, I think the road I have in mind is more 'than-traceable'!!!

 

[Vash]

Oh, finally a very interesting discussion. . .

it saddens me the system of "management" oilxxx+rexroxxx, excellent products, prices quite "decent" but deliveries for exchanges or other absolutely absurd.

However, not to get out of the discussion, I could say that...it has been studying to put on the market a type of valves that has no one, absolutely no one. for now it is not required with large numbers but this does not mean that it is absolutely not required.

ah already, I am the owner of a company that builds cylinders and hydraulic components of various types and sizes.


Well... who knows if my idea will work...:biggrin:


Hello everyone

 

[sim11]

Hi, I've designed hydraulic valves for years, in my opinion there's still something to do, fishing if you want to contact me.

 

[pesca]

Hello, everyone.
It was a little bit that I didn't spend here.
news in the meantime
anyway thanks to everyone for the interest
I look forward to new ideas
:wink:

 

[robysunnen]

I already do the oleodynamic cartucci I see that you have a company so I believe that I can speak freely in technical terms. the oleodynamic cartridges with attached the opening pin and closing are very difficult to do but not impossible I do the final finishing of the internal diam that usual includes rotondity max 0.002 and cylinders 0.005 the diam. the world of oleodynamics ranges from distributors to cartridge valves to press cylinders all things that I have already done in Veneto now live for a few years in the brands and where I work to return to this world here I make a professional recommendation these are high and very high precision machining not to take them lightly also because only of instrumentation of control spends a capital
but are of immense satisfaction if I can be helpful with some advice very gladly are available hello

 

[pesca]

Hello, Robbery.
I imagine that the Sunnen appellative refers to the lapping machines
regarding the productive side and all your explanation
I agree perfectly; my problem is more than anything about
design.
In fact, if you read the other posts, I wonder if it's crazy.
try to start a new adventure in the industry, maybe looking for a niche, or if it is feasible.
However, in the second case, I always miss the design / experimentation:frown::frown::frown::
Bye!

 

[Plus ENGINEERING]

However, in the second case, I always miss the design / experimentation:frown::frown::frown::
Bye!

Hi fishing, I think I understand that some ideas you already have in your head, right?
I have no experience in this area, but design and, in broader terms, research and development are my bread. so we can talk about it if you want.

 

[pesca]

Hello, Father. ,
Sorry if I didn't answer you earlier but I was disconnected for a little + various
connection problems .
Sincerely I have ideas, it depends whether they are valid or not.
I think that experience or at least a basic knowledge of discipline are
essential not to go blind.
Anyway, in previous posts, I've got some ideas to go from.
"the idea" would be to develop the "solanoid group" for electrical valves
etc. used in many applications.
if interested we could exchange some ideas
Hi.
fabio