opinions and reflections on metal carpentry design and calculation software

[gil]

Hi.
I am interested in an exchange of views with those who like me operate in the field of construction metal carpentry.
at the end of the month I will go to the bologna saddle to clarify my ideas better, but I am documenting the situation to have the clearest ideas possible once at the fair.
so I looked at the documentation and presentation of many software, I was impressed by the autodesk house milgioraments.
so far in our sector who designs in 2d uses autocad lt, who does it in 3d has three possible combinations:
1) autocad + technometal
2) autocad + prosteel
3) tekla structure

already those mentioned above are niche programs additional alternatives such as strucad, are more unique than rare cases. This at least emerged from numerous discussions on the forum.

But now the autodesk seems to be serious both in the design part and in the calculation part. if revit structure need of large teams to be fully appreciated perhaps autocad structural detaling has become a more than interesting alternative. Have you seen the 2011 version? It is very close to prostelel and technometal with the possibility to interface with robot strucural analysis that it is always a pleasure to have a static verification with little more beat.

I don't know him, but pro-sap at the front seems to me a jacattolino and at the end of the accounts also mastersap pays a lack of deep integration like that between autocad and robot.
I would also like to see what others do even if I think that the only ones who can bear in mind in the future the autodesk proposal is:

1) bentley thanks to the prosteel + staad+ product (microstation?) but staad al saie neither propogono

2) steel&grafic: with technometal 4d + tecnometal sa, however it is a very small software house, if you want autodesk if the pappa per merenda

3) tekla :tekla structure + midas the solutor I have never seen it in action
Your prints?

 

[felix82]

Hello gil

do not underestimate strucad.... .assieme a tekla is one of the best programs on the market with the difference that strucad costs much less.
regarding other programs are all autocad based applications and when you find yourself having a little complex models will be very slow.... .
I've heard that there's gonna be strucad and tekla... I suggest you make a demonstration and make you say all the costs...

 

[gil]

I did not mean that strucad is not as functional, but only that before I had never contracted another user and therefore perhaps has less users.
strucad has a capage software to integrate for the static realfca?

 

[felix82]

I honestly don't know what the number of users in Italy is, but I happen to work with 2 workshops and a study that used strucad..... for static verification I know that it interfaces with several calculation programs but I don't know what. .

 

[cris74]

the problem of all these is that it is hardly in the calculation to take into account the needs for a good modeling that is optimal then to make the execution of the workshop, so rarely you can use one or another.
For example:
If modeling starts the calculation usually rolls the structural meshes or does not take into account the real height of the floors because it does not consider the type of loft (blade, grilled, etc.), then countervents and heights are to be reviewed.
if modeling starts the workshop executive without the profile type fails to model properly.
I think doing the two things separately is the best thing.

 

[Salvatore_UT]

definitely not believe the interface between calculation program and program for workshop drawings. These are just caxxates that everyone wants to promote but I have not yet found anyone who uses them. then my opinion on autodesk products are back 10 years respect all others. after if you want a product that guarantees you productivity, power in short period prosteel is definitely the best. tekla and strucad excellent but you already know the fact that they do not work in autocad environment for some may seem a disadvantage but I think the vast majority is definitely an advantage.

 

[>Iceman<]

definitely not believe the interface between calculation program and program for workshop drawings. These are just caxxates that everyone wants to promote but I have not yet found anyone who uses them. then my opinion on autodesk products are back 10 years respect all others. after if you want a product that guarantees you productivity, power in short period prosteel is definitely the best. tekla and strucad excellent but you already know the fact that they do not work in autocad environment for some may seem a disadvantage but I think the vast majority is definitely an advantage.

I fully agree. I am sorry to disappoint those who say that autocad with very large models, creates equally great problems, it is not true, only you will have to model with a certain criterion. I also use prosteel and I am convinced that it is among the best. if "expressed" properly I think it has the most versatile management of the 2d, with equally satisfactory results.

 

[gil]

I propose this simple table illustrating the main software for drawing and calculating carpentry.
left ones are mainly drawing software used for the production of euphoids. to the right software used mainly for calculation. the lines that connect the three settlers indicate the various combinations with possible interactions between software. to each one I have given a judgment from 0 to 5. are indicative values we can discuss.
I would also like to complete the table with you and check its gaps. As regards prosteel know that there is the ram calculation module, but this nenache is imported in Italy, does not contain Italian norms and is not marketed. So don't put it on the list.

for the rest say as well
link: http://www.cad3d.it/forum1/album.php?albumid=74&pictureid=232

 

[blind]

definitely not believe the interface between calculation program and program for workshop drawings. These are just caxxates that everyone wants to promote but I have not yet found anyone who uses them. then my opinion on autodesk products are back 10 years respect all others. after if you want a product that guarantees you productivity, power in short period prosteel is definitely the best. tekla and strucad excellent but you already know the fact that they do not work in autocad environment for some may seem a disadvantage but I think the vast majority is definitely an advantage.

In my opinion, the software untied by autocad environment is superior as performance in fact I have reduced the rating to the three software I know that they do not use autocad platform.
to today in the order of what seemed more valid is tekla then bocad and finally strucad

have suggestions and new info that can change my idea of purchase? Thank you.

 

[BIMchecker]

the problem of all these is that it is hardly in the calculation to take into account the needs for a good modeling that is optimal then to make the execution of the workshop, so rarely you can use one or another.
For example:
If modeling starts the calculation usually rolls the structural meshes or does not take into account the real height of the floors because it does not consider the type of loft (blade, grilled, etc.), then countervents and heights are to be reviewed.
if modeling starts the workshop executive without the profile type fails to model properly.
I think doing the two things separately is the best thing.

of course the calculation model will never be identical to the structural one, however I can assure you by personal experience that it is very useful to pass the model from one software to another as it allows to speed up the work and reduces the risk of loss of information

 

[andrea1968]

definitely not believe the interface between calculation program and program for workshop drawings. These are just caxxates that everyone wants to promote but I have not yet found anyone who uses them. then my opinion on autodesk products are back 10 years respect all others. after if you want a product that guarantees you productivity, power in short period prosteel is definitely the best. tekla and strucad excellent but you already know the fact that they do not work in autocad environment for some may seem a disadvantage but I think the vast majority is definitely an advantage.

hi savior
I am sorry, but I have to contradict you because in our study it has already happened in 4/5 orders to pass the data from our tekla to the midas and I can assure you that the data that is passed is very good.
It is logical that in modeling one must keep in mind that one wants to pass the model to a calculation software.
However, tekla also allows to manage which axes to export throughout the model or for beam groups or even individually.

 

[Lucky-Luke]

definitely not believe the interface between calculation program and program for workshop drawings. These are just caxxates that everyone wants to promote but I have not yet found anyone who uses them.

That's not exactly what you say.
we currently use tekla combined with calculation software and pisso make sure that by modeling correctly according to some simple rules it is possible to create with tekla a model of excellent quality to pass to computing software.
At the moment we passed our models to two engineering studies one that uses midas and another that uses modest.
for honesty there is to say that in some cases it was necessary to make some changes but the spare time was huge

 

[Salvatore_UT]

then since you are so sure you make a model with a complete structure of straight profiles, curved profiles, electro-controlled profiles, plates with all processing etc and published it in this forum so we see. as long as it is simple profiles only unifilare (ipe-hea etc) everything is easy but reality is quite different.

Hi.

 

[Lucky-Luke]

then since you are so sure you make a model with a complete structure of straight profiles, curved profiles, electro-controlled profiles, plates with all processing etc and published it in this forum so we see. as long as it is simple profiles only unifilare (ipe-hea etc) everything is easy but reality is quite different.

Hi.

Hi.

Unfortunately for issues related to the confidentiality of data I cannot post images and data relating to orders made by our study.

on youtube I found some movies that show links with some computing software:

tekla-midas http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ehnrmu8wggtekla-miss http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1xfpmrqvxwteclasta http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6c8pn4cmvs tek http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we30af7bc3g tek-sap2000 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euqg47dslce

 

[BIMchecker]

then since you are so sure you make a model with a complete structure of straight profiles, curved profiles, electro-controlled profiles, plates with all processing etc and published it in this forum so we see. as long as it is simple profiles only unifilare (ipe-hea etc) everything is easy but reality is quite different.

Hi.

hi savior

Are you so skeptical because you had negative experiences or to hear?