pendulum physics

[Mitch__]

good morning to all, since he has school I studied little physics and of what little I did not remember much I wanted to ask you experts if it is possible to realize this project or to oppose some law of physics.
According to you it is possible to build a pendulum, transform its bike into rotational motion in order to operate a generator to integrate the electrical system of home. Obviously the pendulum will have to be recharged since the perpetual motion cannot be realized, but let's say that my goal is to have to recharge it 1 or max 2 times a day.

 

[radio]

hi mitch, I ask you, like other "novices" to read qui e quiAnd introduce you.

coming to your question, very generic, I see you answering equally generic, then maybe you'll better explain your idea.
It is certainly possible to do as you say, but it is equally inappropriate.
If I understood correctly, you propose to use some driving force to move a "pendolo" which in turn would operate through an additional mechanism, like biella-manvella, perhaps, a generator.
At this point it would be worth that your "motor" would directly operate the generator, without going through intermediate mechanisms, which would only make it worse in overall performance of your machine.

 

[Mitch__]

I apologize if I didn't show up before posting my first discussion but I immediately remedied by presenting myself in the appropriate forum presentation section and reading the rules you posted to me.
said this continuation with the theme launched in the first message.
you have understood very well what my project is the only thing I have to correct is that my engine is precisely the swing of the pendulum that having a certain mass and speed surely with its oscillation generates a certain power and this will allow me to move my generator. the difficult part will then be how to keep the oscillation for a rather long time not to have to recharge it every hour, on this I have some idea but to make you understand I will have to post a design, I will just call it in all its parts how to realize the mechanism.

 

[Er Presidente]

I apologize if I didn't show up before posting my first discussion but I immediately remedied by presenting myself in the appropriate forum presentation section and reading the rules you posted to me.
said this continuation with the theme launched in the first message.
you have understood very well what my project is the only thing I have to correct is that my engine is precisely the swing of the pendulum that having a certain mass and speed surely with its oscillation generates a certain power and this will allow me to move my generator. the difficult part will then be how to keep the oscillation for a rather long time not to have to recharge it every hour, on this I have some idea but to make you understand I will have to post a design, I will just call it in all its parts how to realize the mechanism.

pendulum is an accumulator, the external source of energy must be identified. who sets the pendulum in motion (let it lose for now how)?

 

[radio]

......
you have understood very well what my project is the only thing I have to correct is that my engine is precisely the swing of the pendulum that having a certain mass and speed surely with its oscillation generates a certain power and this will allow me to move my generator.
...... .

I am sorry to disappoint you, but the pendulum is not an engine, it is only a mechanism that continually converts kinetic energy into potential energy and vice versa; if this energy is transferred outside (generator) the pendulum motion stops until such energy is restored by an external intervant (motor); it is the speech I made you before.
Anyway, when you have a pattern to post, let's take a look at it.

Bye.

 

[radio]

before him. :biggrin:

 

[meccanicamg]

then, let's make clarity in this post.

- the frictions are always present and are lost power
- the dynamo that produces current (or alternator) requires a flywheel to maintain constant speed. to start it takes a lot of energy to win inertia and a slice of friction and electrical returns to keep it alive
- the pendulum mechanism must transmit the oscillating motion in continuous rotation, so the yields are low and the inertia makes to brake the system since the potential energy turns into kinetics and vice versa and to every cycle there is friction that removes the power to the useful one
- no one and I say no one has yet managed to make a perpetual motion, because it is technically impossible. who made permanent magnet motors on the rotor and stator found similar technology but it must be taken into account that rare earth magnets should be built and it takes a lot of energy etc etc.
- if you enter 100% power you will eventually get less than 100%...just mechanical, then with electrical returns you lower even more
- the pendulum accumulation premotor can not be a spring but a kinetic battery of those of the nasa that turn vacuum but really cost a barrel... and eventually they exhaust themselves too
- if you want to play so much to keep you busy can be a good game, but do not expect results other than the laws of physics and mechanics
According to Maya, the world had to be over yet, but it's not like that.

 

[Mitch__]

I agree that there are frictions and energy dispersions but if I had to put a weight of 100 kg that swings and this oscillation I use to turn a bicycle dynamo I think before stopping the pendulum put a little or wrong? tell me why this is ideas so I could go against the laws of physics. for the speech of those who put the pendulum in motion we admit that it is I to move the pendulum of a certain number of degrees from its position of balance and then release it and giving start to the oscillation.(We neglect for the moment the fact of keeping it moving for tot hours)

 

[athlon]

theoretically if you take a pendulum from a hundred kg with a branch of 3 or 4 meters, bring it nice up (e.g. at 90°) then let it fall before stopping can give energy to a dynamo of bicycle also for a couple of bears.

If you want to stay on such a system I think it's easier/efficient to make a weight that breaks a rope in turn connected (with the appropriate multiplications) to the generator.
with this second method you would have a constant and non- oscillating electrical output

Instead of using a 100kg 4 meter high pendulum, a simple 30 euro lead battery can do the same storage service

 

[Tequila]

I agree that there are frictions and energy dispersions but if I had to put a weight of 100 kg that oscillates and this oscillation use to turn a bicycle dynamo I think before you stop the pendulum, you're gonna put a little on it? . . .

in the first message you talked about operating a generator to integrate the house system, now of a bicycle dynamo, to switch from dynamo to generator for home you should make a nice leap in size for this pendulum.
You should try to exploit what natural energy sources are (wind, sun, water), surely you would have a small extra energy source and physical laws would cut this less.
the perpetual motion as already repeated by others have not yet invented it, although some have tried, I remember a table clock that has a mechanism that exploits the minimum changes of atmospheric pressure to recharge, but you will understand that turning a hand of a clock is not like turning a current generator.

 

[Mitch__]

but I was talking about the bicycle dynamo just as an example...!! was it to say that if hypothetically there was a pendulum with some ton of weight you could move a generator to integrate the house system?? Anyway I wanted to make a statement I never talked about perpetual motion, eh...

 

[athlon]

the problem of the pendulum is that as a system of accumulation is very bulky (you must have the space of the whole oscillation) and that tends to dissipate energy with time.

the energy accumulated by a pendulum is equal to the weight of the pendulum multiplied the quota to which you lift it, therefore if you take a pendulum of 1 ton and lift it of 1 meter before putting it in oscillation , your quantity of energy is equal to that you would have however lifting a ton of one meter and exploiting the descent with more 'complexed and efficient means

summing up, yes, the pendulum can function as an energy accumulation...
Can the pendulum be a simple and efficient way of accumulating energy?
No, there are simpler, more efficient and much less expensive methods.

If you tell us where the energy you want to accumulate comes, we can suggest the best way to accumulate it there are so many possibilities, batteries, flyers, compressed air, pumped water that surely a better way of pendulum is found

 

[Mitch__]

look sincerely the source of energy I thought I found it in the swing of the pendulum though not being sure that you could do I asked in this forum finding confirmation to my doubts... at this point if you have ideas to be able to integrate the electrical system of the house reassigning some mail money as well as I take inspiration. . :

 

[athlon]

pendulum is a very poor energy storage system, it is used only in very rare cases, more for games than for real applications.

even in pendulum clocks the energy accumulation is made with springs (charging clocks) or with weights (pendoles and cucu) , the real pendoo is only used as a mechanism of regulation of escapement.



to integrate the electrical system efficiently, quickly and with little expense the simplest thing is a photovoltaic panel with microinverter, being under 1 kw does not need any authorization and no energy account (of course if you produce more than what you consume you are not paid).

microinverter panels are panels that on the back have a small tin inverter that directly converts the panel current to 220 ac, from here you connect it directly to your electrical system (microinverters need the network to work, can not be put to island).

at this point every watt produced by the photovoltaic system is a watt less than you pay in the bill.

Usually the panels with microinverters are in 150w cuts, and usually puts one or two panels because so much if you produce more than you consume you have no advantage.

From the energy point of view, however, the most important thing to do for the confirmation is definitely the thermal coat, but this is slightly more invasive.

 

[Tequila]

but I was talking about the bicycle dynamo just as an example...!! was it to say that if hypothetically there was a pendulum with some ton of weight you could move a generator to integrate the house system?? Anyway I wanted to make a statement I never talked about perpetual motion, eh...

Yes... it was just to say:

look sincerely the source of energy I thought I found it in the swing of the pendulum though not being sure that you could do I asked in this forum finding confirmation to my doubts... at this point if you have ideas to be able to integrate the electrical system of the house reassigning some mail money as well as I take inspiration. . :

I agree with athlon, the solution currently best suited to save is photovoltaic.

other ideas to create electricity from what would be a waste there are, but the problem is to see if in Italy you can have permissions on this and how much they would cost in terms of investment.

 

[Mitch__]

I know for the heat coat that would be a good solution but it is very expensive even in money and since I'm buying case I don't have much money available... I am very interested on those ideas that use what implementation is a waste.
What are they?

 

[athlon]

one on all is the serpentine around the drain of the shower, the cold water tube turns around that of the discharge (hot) recovering the heat

washing machine and dishwasher with hot water

drain washbasin bathroom inside the toilet cassette

use light pipes to illuminate the interior areas of the house during the day

separate the refrigerator well from other appliances that generate heat

a little solar microinverter if you have a balcony and you need a sun curtain (use the panel as a tent)

saving bulbs in all places where they are lit long

various mirrors in the house to make it brighter