pinion sizing, rack, motor and motor

[wert]

I apologize, I wasn't aware that automatic gate automation was regulated
where can I find these regulations?
Although the project is only theoretical I would like to try to make it applicable, to realize a complete 360° project.

Take a look at this: European standards for installation and maintenance of gates and motorized locks - automation and safetyI also tell you that usually gate automations are managed by hw and fw owners.

 

[zano777⁶]

Take a look at this: European standards for installation and maintenance of gates and motorized locks - automation and safetyI also tell you that usually gate automations are managed by hw and fw owners.

thank you very much, now I will see to myself well informed about the part of automation

 

[meccanicamg]

where can I find these tables for service factors? around what value should it get around?
I apologize for the trouble

per that same thing:quest corredata:find them on all catalogs of serious gearboxes. find various applications and various operations.
so, without looking at anything I would say that a fs=1.5 is the minimum. Of course if you want to be competitive you will have a lower fs.
clearly you have to evaluate the various loads agents.

 

[zano777⁶]

per that same thing:View attachment 71269quest corredata:View attachment 71270find them on all catalogs of serious gearboxes. find various applications and various operations.
so, without looking at anything I would say that a fs=1.5 is the minimum. Of course if you want to be competitive you will have a lower fs.
clearly you have to evaluate the various loads agents.

good evening, I wanted to ask, please, if in your opinion the choices for the engine (t80a) and the respective gearbox (s47ad1) are correct (I attach photos of the respective elements). with such reducer I should respect a service factor of at least 1.5

 

[TETRASTORE]

in your case it is preferable to make the choice of a gear motor, because the choice of a gearbox with a protruding input shaft requires to connect the motor with joint.
I attach a selection made with configurator of an Italian manufacturer of which I have reported both the values used as input and the choice made between the various types proposed by the system, together with the dimensions. the auto-frenating motor, if mounted vertically as a pattern, will have a protruding shaft in the back to allow manual drive in case of lack of current. if the engine is mounted horizontally, the double ledge of the shaft can be provided on the gearbox as in the drawings of the chosen gearbox.
I predicted a commuter mounting with reaction arm on the supported shaft that brings the two pinions according to the pattern I indicated on the first page.qui You can see a missing vertical gate example.

 

[wert]

in your case it is preferable to make the choice of a gear motor, because the choice of a gearbox with a protruding input shaft requires to connect the motor with joint.
I attach a selection made with configurator of an Italian manufacturer of which I have reported both the values used as input and the choice made between the various types proposed by the system, together with the dimensions. the auto-frenating motor, if mounted vertically as a pattern, will have a protruding shaft in the back to allow manual drive in case of lack of current. if the engine is mounted horizontally, the double ledge of the shaft can be provided on the gearbox as in the drawings of the chosen gearbox.
I predicted a commuter mounting with reaction arm on the supported shaft that brings the two pinions according to the pattern I indicated on the first page.qui You can see a missing vertical gate example.

question: can you turn the shaft of a self-frenating motor in case of emergency? Don't you have to unleash the brake before? then: admitted and not allowed that the engine is easily manoeuvrable (I imagine through an rod at whose end there is a crank like those of the curtains), what happens if, once put in motion, I get out of hand the crank? would the weight of the gate be such that the movement will continue independently? I imagine you and with a remarkable acceleration, with obvious consequences for mechanical organs and, above all, for people who can be found nearby. the proposed solution, which provides a gate that descends into the ground, is absolutely bizarre and difficult to standardize. the possibility to manually unlock and open a closed gate in case of black out is one of the requirements to make the gate "standard". if as I imagine there is no place for a sliding solution horizontally, the only one is to go to a swing gate (or, if very wide, at 2 doors)

 

[meccanicamg]

good evening, I wanted to ask, please, if in your opinion the choices for the engine (t80a) and the respective gearbox (s47ad1) are correct (I attach photos of the respective elements). with such reducer I should respect a service factor of at least 1.5

Sorry, but with all the motor builders you've got into what you understand less than everyone.
I recommend you red or bonfiglioli. or stm.
sew, bears the international name but it is a rebus as well the code....that does not exist and all times it is necessary to attach the technical card.

the motor paired with gearbox with input shaft obliges you to mount joint and make shelf.
use matching motors, and possibly same brand so you have everything that you mount.
The engine must be brake cars if you don't want that after you've taken power you find it in the ditch.

 

[meccanicamg]

question: can you turn the shaft of a self-frenating motor in case of emergency? Don't you have to unleash the brake before? then: admitted and not allowed that the engine is easily manoeuvrable (I imagine through an rod at whose end there is a crank like those of the curtains), what happens if, once put in motion, I get out of hand the crank? would the weight of the gate be such that the movement will continue independently? I imagine you and with a remarkable acceleration, with obvious consequences for mechanical organs and, above all, for people who can be found nearby. the proposed solution, which provides a gate that descends into the ground, is absolutely bizarre and difficult to standardize. the possibility to manually unlock and open a closed gate in case of black out is one of the requirements to make the gate "standard". if as I imagine there is no place for a sliding solution horizontally, the only one is to go to a swing gate (or, if very wide, at 2 doors)

normally the auto brake motors red or bonfiglioli have the lever to pull or the spindle to unscrew to unlock in manual.

 

[meccanicamg]

question: can you turn the shaft of a self-frenating motor in case of emergency? Don't you have to unleash the brake before? then: admitted and not allowed that the engine is easily manoeuvrable (I imagine through an rod at whose end there is a crank like those of the curtains), what happens if, once put in motion, I get out of hand the crank? would the weight of the gate be such that the movement will continue independently? I imagine you and with a remarkable acceleration, with obvious consequences for mechanical organs and, above all, for people who can be found nearby. the proposed solution, which provides a gate that descends into the ground, is absolutely bizarre and difficult to standardize. the possibility to manually unlock and open a closed gate in case of black out is one of the requirements to make the gate "standard". if as I imagine there is no place for a sliding solution horizontally, the only one is to go to a swing gate (or, if very wide, at 2 doors)

the 100% solution is the one that is adopted on lifts and on the vertical axis of machine tools, i.e. a counterweight with carbide and rope.
the gate comes to weigh a few kg and at the bottom they put two hydraulic decelerators ace.

 

[TETRASTORE]

the proposed solution, which provides a gate that descends into the ground, is absolutely bizarre and difficult to standardize.

There are already many examples of mechanically operated vertical gates or hydraulic cylinders, with or without counterweights and it is an application similar to many others normally present in the industrial field, therefore it is subject to regulations to ensure safety to the person against prevailing risks of lifting and shearing. some regulatory references are found in that vecchio document (par. 4.1.1.6 protection device - 5.2.4 vertical sliding doors) or, more recent, to This link.

would the weight of the gate be such that the movement will continue independently? I imagine you and with a remarkable acceleration, with obvious consequences for mechanical organs and, above all, for people who can be found nearby.

in the case of a reducer with a reduction ratio 20/1, both to gears and unfinished screw, we are in the case of total dynamic reversibility, so your fears are confirmed; If the crank is out of hand or there is a mechanical failure, the load will descend with speed and inertia more or less accentuated. in this case it is necessary to integrate in the system a safety device to electromagnetic command (in this case with electric motorization, see attached image) or pneumatic (for other applications) that in case of failure instantly blocks the fall of the vertical gate.
Of course, as already happens for normal sliding gates or doors, there are also some sensitive bars which, if stressed by an obstacle to a certain pressure, stop the device and in some cases also operate the reverse of the bike.
It is however necessary to consider that this application as a practice of study goes well, even to search for information to make it as fit as possible to reality but regarding its realization diy (do it yourself) it is absolutely to exclude if not with the assistance of a professional who certifies the normative adjustments.

 

[wert]

normally the auto brake motors red or bonfiglioli have the lever to pull or the spindle to unscrew to unlock in manual.View attachment 71331

My question was rhetorical. so first of all, since the lever compresses a spring, it would be necessary to make sure that this lever is deemed to be unlocked. At the same time, it is necessary to put a sensor that feels that there is an activated release, so that an unexpected return of the power does not constitute danger.

the 100% solution is the one that is adopted on lifts and on the vertical axis of machine tools, i.e. a counterweight with carbide and rope.
the gate comes to weigh a few kg and at the bottom they put two hydraulic decelerators ace.

apart from the increase in the complexity of the system, this solution would be the smartest. In any case, we're talking about more than a few kg... 280 kg are a lot... because of this and the fact that there is the safety of people, the cable balancing system, would be subject to periodic checks, I imagine.

 

[wert]

There are already many examples of mechanically operated vertical gates or hydraulic cylinders, with or without counterweights and it is an application similar to many others normally present in the industrial field, therefore it is subject to regulations to ensure safety to the person against prevailing risks of lifting and shearing. some regulatory references are found in that vecchio document (par. 4.1.1.6 protection device - 5.2.4 vertical sliding doors) or, more recent, to This link.

in the case of a reducer with a reduction ratio 20/1, both to gears and unfinished screw, we are in the case of total dynamic reversibility, so your fears are confirmed; If the crank is out of hand or there is a mechanical failure, the load will descend with speed and inertia more or less accentuated. in this case it is necessary to integrate in the system a safety device to electromagnetic command (in this case with electric motorization, see attached image) or pneumatic (for other applications) that in case of failure instantly blocks the fall of the vertical gate.
Of course, as already happens for normal sliding gates or doors, there are also some sensitive bars which, if stressed by an obstacle to a certain pressure, stop the device and in some cases also operate the reverse of the bike.
It is however necessary to consider that this application as a practice of study goes well, even to search for information to make it as fit as possible to reality but regarding its realization diy (do it yourself) it is absolutely to exclude if not with the assistance of a professional who certifies the normative adjustments.

Perhaps I did not understand; I ask: do these safety devices intervene in case of blackout? When the power is missing, they arrest the axis, right?
...stop the device and in some cases also activate the reverse of the bike... if the residual force on the obstacle exceeds 150 n, the system must always reverse the bike

 

[meccanicamg]

My question was rhetorical. so first of all, since the lever compresses a spring, it would be necessary to make sure that this lever is deemed to be unlocked. At the same time, it is necessary to put a sensor that feels that there is an activated release, so that an unexpected return of the power does not constitute danger.

apart from the increase in the complexity of the system, this solution would be the smartest. In any case, we're talking about more than a few kg... 280 kg are a lot... because of this and the fact that there is the safety of people, the cable balancing system, would be subject to periodic checks, I imagine.

If the counterweight does 5kg less than the weight of the gate, manage a very small couple. If you don't use the counterweight, you have all the weight of the gate to move.

 

[wert]

If the counterweight does 5kg less than the weight of the gate, manage a very small couple. If you don't use the counterweight, you have all the weight of the gate to move.

Yes, it was clear; in light of this, all calculations for the sizing of the engine are to be remade. but the periodic checks of the ropes instead what do you tell me?

 

[meccanicamg]

My question was rhetorical. so first of all, since the lever compresses a spring, it would be necessary to make sure that this lever is deemed to be unlocked. At the same time, it is necessary to put a sensor that feels that there is an activated release, so that an unexpected return of the power does not constitute danger.

apart from the increase in the complexity of the system, this solution would be the smartest. In any case, we're talking about more than a few kg... 280 kg are a lot... because of this and the fact that there is the safety of people, the cable balancing system, would be subject to periodic checks, I imagine.

an operator, formed, with manual use and maintenance, after affixing of stakes and red and white band as delimitation of safety zone.

a hand keeps the lever unlocked and with the other inserts the tile key in the tree. If he slips his hand, the brake will start on its own because the lever returns to spring.
no sensor needed.
size brake torque sufficiently high.

 

[meccanicamg]

Yes, it was clear; in light of this, all calculations for the sizing of the engine are to be remade. but the periodic checks of the ropes instead what do you tell me?

that must be done according to regulations.
See annex inail.. .at least .... then you can go even more specific.

By the way...the ropes of the counterweights of the box shutters that are marked there....but who ever makes them review? Clearly, if you don't walk away, you just have to look at it.
the manual use and maintenance....200box...not even one delivered to the owners... .
obviously it is not all so stringent in the civil field or it is very derogating....boh

 

[wert]

that must be done according to regulations.
See annex inail.. .at least .... then you can go even more specific.

By the way...the ropes of the counterweights of the box shutters that are marked there....but who ever makes them review? Clearly, if you don't walk away, you just have to look at it.
the manual use and maintenance....200box...not even one delivered to the owners... .
obviously it is not all so stringent in the civil field or it is very derogating....boh

But if they break, they don't hurt anyone. you just have to make a lot more strength to open the door; But let's talk about a "velo" that doesn't come to 50kg; it goes without saying until anyone hurts. the automated gate/ gate is a machine. If someone hurts, the judge will soon see how you did it. . .

 

[wert]

a hand keeps the lever unlocked and with the other inserts the tile key in the tree. If he slips his hand, the brake will start on its own because the lever returns to spring.
no sensor needed.

I see you're very optimistic. If you're there with your tile key back the current (but you don't know) and your wife is coming home and pressing the remote from 50 meters, I want to see the key to the brugola as it reduces your hand...
mention also on the time necessary to open the gate with a brugola.. .

 

[meccanicamg]

Just put a proper switch... as you say to remove the current at the gate, as you do in the new plants.
it is not only "washed" "oven" "conditioners" "lights" "prese 16a" but also "cancello".

I see you're very optimistic. If you're there with your tile key back the current (but you don't know) and your wife is coming home and pressing the remote from 50 meters, I want to see the key to the brugola as it reduces your hand...
mention also on the time necessary to open the gate with a brugola.. .

it is as for all electrolytes: before changing tip, blade or disk that is to remove the plug from the socket.

but all these speeches exult from the dimensionalization and cinematism.

 

[wert]

Just put a proper switch... as you say to remove the current at the gate, as you do in the new plants.
it is not only "washed" "oven" "conditioners" "lights" "prese 16a" but also "cancello".


it is as for all electrolytes: before changing tip, blade or disk that is to remove the plug from the socket.

but all these speeches exult from the dimensionalization and cinematism.

No, it doesn't work that way. here is the housewife who has to leave the house and is not skillful to do everything you would do (which we represent a minimum percentage). Yes, okay, it is an exercise but you cannot neglect these aspects, also because, as you see, from the observations raised, you have come to establish that the gate must be balanced. Therefore the sizing of the driver must take into account this new configuration.