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preventive molding

  • Thread starter Thread starter cavallopazzo1
  • Start date Start date

cavallopazzo1

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Hello, guys.
I've just signed up. I am young enough but despite this I have a good experience in the world of automation and electronics (it is always too little!), I have found myself in the world of mechanics and, in particular, of molding; I stand documenting from the theoretical point of view, I stand using the visi (in workshop we have that). However to make it short, I got the request for design and construction of a mold for aluminum tanks. I'll get you some pictures. the dimensions are:

the upper part 260 x 185 mm
the lower part 220 x 150 mm
height 65 mm

according to you what is an honest price for design and how much for realization considering that the customer is located in the center of Italy?
DSCF5534.webp
DSCF5536.webp
DSCF5537.webp
 
hi horse
you are welcome in the community of Italian designers
Anyway
I don't have the specific experience for that type of molding
and I'm sorry I can't help you
we expect some other user with specific experience
I'll tell you what to do
Thank you very much
 
Is there no one who can give me any additional indication on the value of such a mold? ?
 
cavallopazzo1 said:
Is there no one who can give me any additional indication on the value of such a mold? ?
Click to expand...
hi ing
we try to make a quote together
if you already have an idea of the mold feasibility
places a sketch also made by hand
Let's go through a time of operation
material costs
and we take out a commercial evaluation
scratches a thousand
 
I do not work in the specific field, but the mould in question seems to me to be the simplest existing ones: cold moulding of aluminium sheet with a thickness of a few tenths. a single longitudinal movement, perhaps a couple of shortenings for the twist that usually appears at the edges not to make the tray sharp. aluminum is soft so the mold does not require special wear treatments. to the eye and cross, just to start and feel the opinion of some extra expert I would say that 10000-15000 euros could be a reasonable price. It's a gross estimate. I'd wait for someone else's opinion. then you can reason together.
 
Paol said:
I do not work in the specific field, but the mould in question seems to me to be the simplest existing ones: cold moulding of aluminium sheet with a thickness of a few tenths. a single longitudinal movement, perhaps a couple of shortenings for the twist that usually appears at the edges not to make the tray sharp. aluminum is soft so the mold does not require special wear treatments. to the eye and cross, just to start and feel the opinion of some extra expert I would say that 10000-15000 euros could be a reasonable price. It's a gross estimate. I'd wait for someone else's opinion. then you can reason together.
Click to expand...
...
I just took a tray like this in my house. the edge requires something more than a shortening.
the first step is a molding of the large shape of the tray, then with a tool (4 movements??? one by side) we make the curl, then we proceed with the molding of the edges that are to be folded). the price rises and according to the tools start to hypothesize at least 40000/50000. the doubt remains on the movements to be implemented (according to which the price changes a lot).
 
the edges of the tray have a curl along the four sides, except obviously in proximity to the edges where the edge is simply flattened, the curl is created in two phases... in the hairstyle through a slightly concave profile you give a first direction and then at the bottom of the race a second profile to " nail" ends with the curling on itself the sheet metal
 
Is it just the funnel mold? or even those to make the turns and the subsequent bending of the edges? for the second and third passage, rather than having complex mold movements, perhaps the tank and the mold are turned on the 4 sides and the second tool provides to curl the edge. then another tool folds the edges. what kind of island do you have at your disposal? a single printer or even robot to manipulate components, turn them,...? depending on the capacity you could think about the necessary tools. I imagine that to have a fast and competitive process you will have 3 serial molds on one line. Do you have information about the customer's equipment? three cold moulds, stigma on 30000 (at spans).
 
It's very important that you indicate the pieces to be done a day and how long.
It's a fundamental data for the preventive of any mold.
 
maxopus said:
It's very important that you indicate the pieces to be done a day and how long.
It's a fundamental data for the preventive of any mold.
Click to expand...
Are you sure that for the quote they serve this data? are generally useful to the customer to evaluate the investment and calculate a product price. the cost of the mold should not need this data (unless an estimate of tool wear is made).
 
change.
I'll give you the example of step molds for the sheet.
If you have to make a piece that includes tranch, funnel and puncture of the piece and you have to make a few pieces it is useless to invest in a mold that costs a delirium and you will never spoil it.
divide the three stages and execute them with three different molds.
If instead you have to make 6 million pieces at the rate of 15,000 pieces per day, you realize that you should invest in a step mold that for each press blow pulls you out a piece.

same for injection moulds for abs.
if the pieces are many (such as plastic bottles caps) you make multi-matrix molds that are able to make 4, 8, or even 64 printed pieces.
Of course a 64-position mold costs much more than an 8-shaped mold, but with one press you do many more ... depends on the volumes.
 
Okay, you're perfectly right. but are considerations that the customer, that is the user of the mold should provide. ideal is to define all these parameters and productivity targets with the end user, and I think this is professional practice. a nickname would be recommended to understand what type of lines you will have at your disposal and to agree on the production objectives and margins, according to which the maximum cycle time and amortization will be decided.
 
Paol said:
Is it just the funnel mold? or even those to make the turns and the subsequent bending of the edges? for the second and third passage, rather than having complex mold movements, perhaps the tank and the mold are turned on the 4 sides and the second tool provides to curl the edge. then another tool folds the edges. what kind of island do you have at your disposal? a single printer or even robot to manipulate components, turn them,...? depending on the capacity you could think about the necessary tools. I imagine that to have a fast and competitive process you will have 3 serial molds on one line. Do you have information about the customer's equipment? three cold moulds, stigma on 30000 (at spans).
Click to expand...
It's a single mold that does everything, if you start to waste time turning and saying... for the quantities that produce daily I don't know but go on a continuous cycle. . .
 
So, guys to do this.
n°1 mould that feeds, prints and curls the 4 edges laterally all in one shot only with various movimente of the mold. also need a lower pneumatic cylinder for curling and extraction mold. Would you like a sketch to see or a finished pdf mold design? I don't know if I'm a horse
that generated the discussion tried to test the designers or if he had a straight from someone or from the mold client. in practice the mold including design and material should cost on 25000 euros with tempered steel material and nitrate parts.
 
promecvergani said:
So, guys to do this.
n°1 mould that feeds, prints and curls the 4 edges laterally all in one shot only with various movimente of the mold. also need a lower pneumatic cylinder for curling and extraction mold. Would you like a sketch to see or a finished pdf mold design? I don't know if I'm a horse
that generated the discussion tried to test the designers or if he had a straight from someone or from the mold client. in practice the mold including design and material should cost on 25000 euros with tempered steel material and nitrate parts.
Click to expand...
Hello promec.........
would be useful to post something on the type of mold
at least one realizes the actual value comm
Thank you very much
 
promecvergani said:
So, guys to do this.
n°1 mould that feeds, prints and curls the 4 edges laterally all in one shot only with various movimente of the mold. also need a lower pneumatic cylinder for curling and extraction mold. Would you like a sketch to see or a finished pdf mold design? I don't know if I'm a horse
that generated the discussion tried to test the designers or if he had a straight from someone or from the mold client. in practice the mold including design and material should cost on 25000 euros with tempered steel material and nitrate parts.
Click to expand...
do everything in one shot???? But the molds that exist already do that?? ?
give the shape to the tray and a first "flanging" to the edge that will then be folded I think it's a boy's game but completing it seems a bit complicated to do in a single barrel... Is there any image or anything to see a mold like that?? ?
 

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