realization brackets for radial motion pliers

[Luc@]

hi to everyone, I write because I would like to design the braking system of my scooter, which currently has a double front disc with axial calipers with 4 pistons and 267mm discs.
I would like to switch to 2 radial calipers 4 or 6 r1 pistons with 300 or 310mm discs.
I should therefore design a couple of brackets to change axial and radial attack and then make it to the lathe.

I would like to know if, according to your experience, using a material like the anti-rodal 6082 t6 (later anodized) is useful for the purpose.

Thank you very much.

 

[Luc@]

Can no one help me?

 

[MBT]

Can no one help me?

and what do we have to tell you?
the anti-rodal can go well or not, as it could be necessary to use c40 or to have to switch to 36nicrmo4
if the stress is low, you can also use ldpe
Did you do an analysis? What's going on?

 

[Luc@]

No, I didn't do an analysis because I miss a lot of data and hoped that any of you could help me or direct me to where to find them.
I have a double disc brake system (disks 300mm) with 2 radial calipers with a diameter of 34mm that must brake a motorcycle of about 200kg at a maximum speed of 180km/h.

Unfortunately, I don't know what the force of the brake pump on the pistons is, so I don't even know the braking couple at stake. I tried to search for average values of forces exercised by that type of pliers on the discs but I found nothing about it.

not having - and failing to find them - these data, I cannot understand if the maximum loads that the antirodal can bear are higher than the loads to which the brackets are subjected or not.

I want to know if anyone has any data that can help me. Thank you.

 

[MBT]

Easy friend. . .
Otherwise, what's to do with the rump, beringer and good company?
I, frankly, disagree with doing such operations... If you're wrong you're testing hardness on a platan using your head as a penetrator
If you want to venture into academic and risky operations, go on the contrary.. .
parts from the current caliper, calculates maximum decelerant force agent on the disk, then reactions on the caliper and its good support
model the support, make a nice fem and see what jumps out

then repeat everything with the "new" caliper, but make sure that the maximum stress is lower than the "theoretical" calculated in the original case

 

[Luc@]

I know that these are complex calculations, but I was hoping that they could find data like the ones I'm looking for.

Unfortunately I do not have a fem underhand and also in this case there is an obstacle. . .

When you tell me to calculate the decelerant force you suggest me to empirically calculate the braking time from a certain speed to know the braking power, knowing a priori the kinetic energy of the medium? ?

correct me if I'm wrong, but if a 200kg vehicle travels 180km/h its ecin will be 250kj; knowing then that the brake power in watts is given by the ratio between ecin and braking time, in this way I could know the braking power at max speed, is it correct?

 

[MBT]

mah, that can serve you to calculate the clamp in itself
I would start from other data. what is the maximum force that disk and pastel (or clamp) exchange?
How to calculate it? bhe, a shaving but working system could be to insert a pressure gauge on the existing clamp oil tube
or, find the data (I think it is in accordance with) of maximum effort considered in the brake lever. from there, knowing the levers and areas of the actuator and pump, you can know how much strength you have in the cylinder.
once you have those values... the rest is mechanical

But, I repeat, you're playing with bigger things than you.
mount r1 brakes on a scooter what gives you? you have a remarkable limit, which is the adhesion of the front tire
You can also mount the f1 prison brakes, but if you don't know how to download the brake power to the ground. ...

 

[Luc@]

No abs. braking is direct and there are no dividers.

increasing braking is not a bad thing for me, especially in the case that this - in original configuration - is a little scarce. Obviously in a case like this I would go to oversize it and at the most not the all rub, but apart from this I do not see big contraindications if not to calculate the brackets well for fixing the pliers.
the adherence in soil-pneumatic contact is about the same for bigger motion; with tires in mix are very agreeable that the adherence is 10volte superior, but with road tires also the bikes do not have a behavior very distant from that of a scooter (only talking about adherence between road asphalt and road tires).
Moreover, besides changing the pliers, the additional interventions can be those to replace also the oil pipes and the brake pumps, which makes the braking more unmanageable, as much more direct and less modulable. Therefore, always in my opinion, with some adjustment you can have an increase of braking power without making it too excessive.

regarding the calculation I will try to look for the maximum effort data of the pump and to calculate all the rest in cascade.

thank you very much for the chat and the tips mbt:finger:

 

[Pastorman75]

without the risk of breaking the pieces.I suggest you check the mass of the "pilot+motor" system of a r1 type from which you want to take pliers and compare it with the mass of the "tu+scooter" system. if the value of this last mass is equal to or below the first, you can copy all the clamp part of the r1 by doing it in anti-rodal.
But beware of the attack on the foot of the fork. That's different for sure. in particular if the stem of your scooter has lower diameter than that of the r1 (as is likely) and if the scooter has an upside down fork, this will be the most complex part. also attentive to the distance (offset) between the parallel plane to the passing disc for the axis of the fork stem and the plane of the disk itself. this distance presses to bending the attack and is the most dangerous stress.
Finally, once you have done the piece, do not use anodization at the sole aesthetic end. uses the treatment that is called "hard oxidation to thickness" where the deposit reaches up to 100 other thick microns. the piece will acquire surface hardness greater than that of many steels.

greetings

 

[Luc@]

Hello pastorman, thank you for the advice.

the weight of the scooter exceeds about 20-25 kg that of the bike, therefore not just a negligible difference.

as you rightly said the attack of the fork foot is different, the forks of the motorcycle are toppled with the feet of attack (I believe) made in fusion, while the scooter has "normal" forks with axial attacks. As far as the difference between the two forks is concerned, I do not know it unfortunately.

coming to anodization: what I intended to do was an anodising of 20microns, to the limits of the thin one precisely because the brackets are subject to external agents. I also knew thatanodization, the harder and worse the fatigue resistance of the material on which it applies... How many microns would you recommend?

Thank you very much

 

[Pastorman75]

for aluminum alloys fatigue resistance is always a problem. is resolved by dimensionalizing the parts generously or with an optimization pushed to the fem.
Perhaps you do not need a high surface hardness considering everything as the surfaces will be tightened between them. Simply dimensional the contact areas properly so as to avoid "refoliation" of the premises.
for informational reasons the oxidation lasts 100 microns I have already used it in the past and the results are excellent. the piece is practically hard as hardened steel and resists abrasions and other. only neo is aesthetics. I think you can't have it in all colors.

returning to the project, if I did not understand badly you would like to make a kind of adaptor between the current axial attack of the original pliers and the clamp with radial attacks of the r1. I don't know the geometry, but it won't be easy for the supposed encumbrance. I did something similar on a track car by fitting ap racing caliper with radial attacks on an axial attack of a standard hub. on that occasion I also made the floating bell in 6082 t6 for the brake track in cast iron. In that case I did a fem verification of the whole group. who knows no one has evicted...:finger:

How are you gonna do that? do you return the r1 holes with the wheel of the scooter?! I don't know.
if you need to remake the disc track bell with floating nottolini, instead I recommend the anodization 100 microns.

greetings

 

[Luc@]

hi again, regarding the disc brake fortunately returns everything as motorbike and scooter are both yamaha, so I do not have to touch anything from that point of view. the bracket I designed it "piena" without too many discharges to not weaken it, has a thickness in axial sense of almost 30mm is discharged only in the points of attack to the fork. the shape is a "species of v" with a wide moooled angle... I hope you've figured it out. as far as encumbrance and form in practice I solved. .

At this point I will try to inform me about the price increase of the anodization 100micron instead of the 20... I hope there is not too much... Do you have any reference?

Thanks again

 

[Pastorman75]

I don't remember.
in its time I served myself by the company "new giolas" of calenzano (fi)

Maybe when you finished posting a photo. You will see that many will be interested.
Hi.

 

[Luc@]

ah but you are of firenze too!! I know the new giolas!!

Anyway the first prototype is already ready, designed and built... now I have made some changes and I would be ready to "new realization"... same thing I will do to the back even if they are quieter because the forces in play are well minor

 

[Pastorman75]

I am of ar.
good work and keep us updated on developments.
greetings

 

[Luc@]

I just called the new giolas, now I send them the quoted designs for a quote for both anodizations. . We hear that they say even if they already told me that the relationship is about 2:1. .