seeger seats and their position compared to bearing rings [off topic? ♪

[gingia]

hello to all
I'm searching on the net as in the title, but I can't find anything specific to my situation and I just stay with you.
I know that the forum is purely cad and not technical design but I hope you can help me the same.
This is the situation: I press that the rings act as safety and not stop, i.e. they do not have to under normal conditions to support axial loads.
I created the wire rings of the inner rings of the bearings with the tolerance of the seat outward so that the seeger can play. I am contesting it because for them they mount to pack without game (and the nice is that when I noticed
that for any reason something goes wrong without having room for tolerance the seeger no longer have given me reason)
do you have any written reference to show him so that he can convince them that this is not enough reason not to pay my company?

help!

 

[MassiVonWeizen]

here's a pretty lively discussion about the subject.https://www.cad3d.it/forum1/threads/cuscinetto-a-sfera.55978/

 

[cacciatorino]

hello to all
I'm searching on the net as in the title, but I can't find anything specific to my situation and I just stay with you.
I know that the forum is purely cad and not technical design but I hope you can help me the same.
This is the situation: I press that the rings act as safety and not stop, i.e. they do not have to under normal conditions to support axial loads.
I created the wire rings of the inner rings of the bearings with the tolerance of the seat outward so that the seeger can play. I am contesting it because for them they mount to pack without game (and the nice is that when I noticed
that for any reason something goes wrong without having room for tolerance the seeger no longer have given me reason)
do you have any written reference to show him so that he can convince them that this is not enough reason not to pay my company?

help!

the assembly of practice is what your client says, but not pay you for this reason it seems to me a little drastic remedy, besides them the project will have also seen and approved... How many "wrong" pieces should be resumed?

 

[gingia]

the assembly of practice is what your client says, but not pay you for this reason it seems to me a little drastic remedy, besides them the project will have also seen and approved... How many "wrong" pieces should be resumed?

It is not a matter of how many pieces (still to be built) are stuck.
they are attacking the fur, they challenged things without meaning and they show that they are looking at it with superficiality and I am giving myself to do to respond point by point.
only this had remained, I am convinced of the accuracy of my choice, but I needed a reference to show him.
Apparently there's some kind of religious war on this.
for me, in my case given the application does not matter how to mount the seeger, and the machine can not suffer any consequence of one or other assembly.

I needed something to show him that they're attacking nothing.

 

[cacciatorino]

Apparently there's some kind of religious war on this.

If the question of the "war of religion" comes from the reading of the other argument indicated lets you lose, it is only a user who has (he had?) the taste of polemic and remarkable dialectical means to manipulate the discussions.

I have been doing this job for thirty years now and I have always seen how to mount the seeger as your client says, that then they recur or go to interference is all a matter of how to put the tolerances on the tables of the details (consider that the bearings on the thickness are always "scarsi", so it is rare that those mounts cause problems).

If your client sticks to everything to do matters, you have to understand what his real reason for dissatisfaction is, and if you care about the customer, please him and please him, without fixing you on a sequence of specific points.

 

[gingia]

If the question of the "war of religion" comes from the reading of the other argument indicated lets you lose, it is only a user who has (he had?) the taste of polemic and remarkable dialectical means to manipulate the discussions.

I have been doing this job for thirty years now and I have always seen how to mount the seeger as your client says, that then they recur or go to interference is all a matter of how to put the tolerances on the tables of the details (consider that the bearings on the thickness are always "scarsi", so it is rare that those mounts cause problems).

If your client sticks to everything to do matters, you have to understand what his real reason for dissatisfaction is, and if you care about the customer, please him and please him, without fixing you on a sequence of specific points.

the customer is the customer of my technical study, which has already polemized and not paid an invoice of another my collaborator stating that there were serious and gross errors that had been made to examine to my manager and that he had actually found. not to lose the customer was not paid the previous invoice.
I went to the company to replace my colleague, and until I was there they were very happy. after returning from the holidays....
Among other things, I have had the opportunity to examine these very indecent errors "made" by my colleague (honestly he is young but dumb not) and if it was not for the refractive it was for the refinement of these errors we could all relate to one of their former employees. I don't know if they didn't realize it and they did easy association with my colleague but also considering for them admission that with "other technical studies they didn't have exciting experiences"... what do I have to think?

So I'm looking for a reference that tells me how to mount the seeger in one way or another because the common sense of the engineer is considered an opinion. as you say it is believed more to the printed paper than to the voice even if the printed paper was written by a voice.
I personally would have no problem installing it in one way or another apart from assembly consideration, and in this application I preferred to mount them in favor of assembly because it was already difficult the assembly of the machine and if even the bearing "ballava" a little could not create harm.

so in conclusion I would need a given written even just to tacit the controversy.

 

[cacciatorino]

the customer is the customer of my technical study, which has already polemized and not paid an invoice of another my collaborator stating that there were serious and gross errors that had been made to examine to my manager and that he had actually found. not to lose the customer was not paid the previous invoice.
I went to the company to replace my colleague, and until I was there they were very happy. after returning from the holidays....
Among other things, I have had the opportunity to examine these very indecent errors "made" by my colleague (honestly he is young but dumb not) and if it was not for the refractive it was for the refinement of these errors we could all relate to one of their former employees. I don't know if they didn't realize it and they did easy association with my colleague but also considering for them admission that with "other technical studies they didn't have exciting experiences"... what do I have to think?

So I'm looking for a reference that tells me how to mount the seeger in one way or another because the common sense of the engineer is considered an opinion. as you say it is believed more to the printed paper than to the voice even if the printed paper was written by a voice.
I personally would have no problem installing it in one way or another apart from assembly consideration, and in this application I preferred to mount them in favor of assembly because it was already difficult the assembly of the machine and if even the bearing "ballava" a little could not create harm.

so in conclusion I would need a given written even just to tacit the controversy.

I did not understand the situation before; I can't support you. what you will get will be to put your technical study in the eyes of the customer, and yourself in the eyes of your employer. over the years I often found myself implementing solutions that I did not share entirely, I then realized that often my point of view could be right in the particular situation, but wrong in a broader perspective, typical of those who managed the whole job, while I only saw a little bit. For example, your customer might be worried that by sending those pieces to the workshop the climbers will all stay back for non-conformity of project with all the consequent losses of time and money, even if they might work smoothly. to me happens with the shoulders of the ball recirculation guides: every customer wants them made differently and I must always remember how he wants them and how he wants them, and of course everyone of them is convinced that his method is universally shared and who does not follow him is a disrespected pressappochist:d. I in your place would accept criticism and correct all the designs as the customer wants, you would demonstrate good sense and willingness to listen.

I allow myself to pass these opinions because I understand that you are at the first professional experience, otherwise obviously I apologize for giving you unsolicited advice.

 

[gingia]

I did not understand the situation before; I can't support you. what you will get will be to put your technical study in the eyes of the customer, and yourself in the eyes of your employer. over the years I often found myself implementing solutions that I did not share entirely, I then realized that often my point of view could be right in the particular situation, but wrong in a broader perspective, typical of those who managed the whole job, while I only saw a little bit. For example, your customer might be worried that by sending those pieces to the workshop the climbers will all stay back for non-conformity of project with all the consequent losses of time and money, even if they might work smoothly. to me happens with the shoulders of the ball recirculation guides: every customer wants them made differently and I must always remember how he wants them and how he wants them, and of course everyone of them is convinced that his method is universally shared and who does not follow him is a disrespected pressappochist:d. I in your place would accept criticism and correct all the designs as the customer wants, you would demonstrate good sense and willingness to listen.

I allow myself to pass these opinions because I understand that you are at the first professional experience, otherwise obviously I apologize for giving you unsolicited advice.

No, I'm not at first experience, I'm 13 years of work on my shoulders in many areas.
I understand that you have always seen fit the seeger in this way but I have found more
but this is not the point, if even the custom was this so much to write about, for example, the baldassini, in the particular situation my would not in any way inflate the application. . Hell, even if I left the bearing completely free, something would have happened... .

Among other things, they are of the philosophy that attacks the puppy where the master says, and if they had told me, I would have mounted it as they claim, nothing changed to me

I'm afraid I didn't explain myself well... also to avoid being a Filipino. our customer is no longer our customer and all this maneuver is just to have discount minds the discount calculated on the hours that at discretion they will have to employ to correct my gross errors. without allowing us to take a look at the job.
we were offered to go there to correct the errors at our expense but they did not want to know.
We asked to show us the job, and they didn't let us. they sent us a pdf with a series of snapshots of errors (5-6 in total) and according to those we had to accept the hours of reduction that they will tell us.... and believe me of these errors only one was justified (I forgot to make a bevel on a flange in coupling)

My boss has two problems now:
1 how to get paid the invoice
2 what to do with me.

on the first he will have already put a cross on it, but on the second he has yet to speak with me and see if he can trust or not.

 

[New Rider]

No, I'm not at first experience, I'm 13 years of work on my shoulders in many areas.
I understand that you have always seen fit the seeger in this way but I have found more
but this is not the point, if even the custom was this so much to write about, for example, the baldassini, in the particular situation my would not in any way inflate the application. . Hell, even if I left the bearing completely free, something would have happened... .

Among other things, they are of the philosophy that attacks the puppy where the master says, and if they had told me, I would have mounted it as they claim, nothing changed to me

I'm afraid I didn't explain myself well... also to avoid being a Filipino. our customer is no longer our customer and all this maneuver is just to have discount minds the discount calculated on the hours that at discretion they will have to employ to correct my gross errors. without allowing us to take a look at the job.
we were offered to go there to correct the errors at our expense but they did not want to know.
We asked to show us the job, and they didn't let us. they sent us a pdf with a series of snapshots of errors (5-6 in total) and according to those we had to accept the hours of reduction that they will tell us.... and believe me of these errors only one was justified (I forgot to make a bevel on a flange in coupling)

My boss has two problems now:
1 how to get paid the invoice
2 what to do with me.

on the first he will have already put a cross on it, but on the second he has yet to speak with me and see if he can trust or not.

I mean, you're telling me you're risking the place for this?

 

[gingia]

I mean, you're telling me you're risking the place for this?

If I can't prove the client's bullshit, I'm sure risking the increase I asked for the renewal of the contract (end of November) since I'm going under a bad light to the big boss' eye.
if then at the end of November renews my contract at this point is to be seen.

 

[stevie]

No, I'm not at first experience, I'm 13 years of work on my shoulders in many areas.
I understand that you have always seen fit the seeger in this way but I have found more
but this is not the point, if even the custom was this so much to write about, for example, the baldassini, in the particular situation my would not in any way inflate the application. . Hell, even if I left the bearing completely free, something would have happened... .

Among other things, they are of the philosophy that attacks the puppy where the master says, and if they had told me, I would have mounted it as they claim, nothing changed to me

I'm afraid I didn't explain myself well... also to avoid being a Filipino. our customer is no longer our customer and all this maneuver is just to have discount minds the discount calculated on the hours that at discretion they will have to employ to correct my gross errors. without allowing us to take a look at the job.
we were offered to go there to correct the errors at our expense but they did not want to know.
We asked to show us the job, and they didn't let us. they sent us a pdf with a series of snapshots of errors (5-6 in total) and according to those we had to accept the hours of reduction that they will tell us.... and believe me of these errors only one was justified (I forgot to make a bevel on a flange in coupling)

My boss has two problems now:
1 how to get paid the invoice
2 what to do with me.

on the first he will have already put a cross on it, but on the second he has yet to speak with me and see if he can trust or not.

at this point it is clear that you are only a side victim of the smart attempt not to pay the job done by this "client". . .
If you also find the most authoritative mechanical design expert who says "yes, seeger rings are mounted with a tenth game" I think things would change little...

 

[gingia]

at this point it is clear that you are only a side victim of the smart attempt not to pay the job done by this "client". . .
If you also find the most authoritative mechanical design expert who says "yes, seeger rings are mounted with a tenth game" I think things would change little...

Yes, it would change little apart from the consideration of the big boss I care about and not only for the job since even if I renew the contract I will have to transfer, despite, from parma to verona.

However I am looking for a written reference on which I can also reason for future applications. because at present I do not see why you can't mount with a tenth game.
If you had a reference that could be considered a soul then I could make my considerations agree or disagree. in this way it is only or an opinion or a custom
(or worse a habit).
I'm not saying one way or another is wrong.

 

[MassiVonWeizen]

I have not found it, nor at the time of discussion or these days.
have you tried to hear some ut of sites like gandini, skf, seeger-orbis.com?

 

[gingia]

I have not found it, nor at the time of discussion or these days.
have you tried to hear some ut of sites like gandini, skf, seeger-orbis.com?

I'll try

 

[cacciatorino]

because at present I do not see why you can't mount with a tenth game.

the reason is that this type of assembly is used as axial reference, albeit of not very high precision. If there's no reason to block the bearing axially, since you wanted to mount it with a game, then it was worth avoiding putting this seeger on.

Could you upload a sectional view of the installation you designed?

 

[gingia]

therefore,
thanks for the support studying a little I have come to these conclusions:

1. seeger rings are born as stop rings intended as rings that need to block an axial force so common sense suggests (in reality order) that the mounting is as tight as possible to avoid shocks and therefore "multiplicate" the force that must be countered
2. seegers are also used as safety rings (intensive as ring x mark the last limit) and other uses as simple jokes. in this case the above rule does not make sense to be applied of obligation for issues of ease of assembly and not least for question of putting into the table (avoid reasoning on tolerances and sequences of tolerances)

If my reasoning is correct, at least now we have found the square on the seeger position.
in the future I will make more aware choices

 

[gingia]

the reason is that this type of assembly is used as axial reference, albeit of not very high precision. If there's no reason to block the bearing axially, since you wanted to mount it with a game, then it was worth avoiding putting this seeger on.

Could you upload a sectional view of the installation you designed?

the application is a toothed wheel to crazy right teeth on its axis thanks to the two bearings, of which the first fully blocked and the second (the one in question) free on the outer ring to allow the expansion of the shaft without the bearing dis-aligned or worse unpacked.
the ring between the two bearings exists only to prevent the delicate mooolto mounts from slipping my bearings
Since the axis and bearings must be mounted inside the toothed wheel together (special requirements of the application in question).
the screws serve to block everything (wheel and axis) on the outer plates.

 

[cacciatorino]

the application is a toothed wheel to crazy right teeth on its axis thanks to the two bearings, of which the first fully blocked and the second (the one in question) free on the outer ring to allow the expansion of the shaft without the bearing dis-aligned or worse unpacked.

You don't understand anything, you can't do a section at table 2d?

 

[MassiVonWeizen]

on the site of the gandini there are also calculations for the axial forces of seeger. I remember that there are more types of seegers including heavy ones for axial loads

 

[gingia]

You don't understand anything, you can't do a section at table 2d?

I am sorry, but this is a slide of the "list" of the above errors, they do not allow us to view directly the 3d and I do not have a copy :-(